Only in the beginning of offline practice.

I start one song, then I exit the pits. The first two laps or so I use to warm up. Then the song that has been playing for two laps or so slowly fades away as it ends and the engine sound of the car sounds clearer and clearer and louder and louder.

Then I'm like: "It's on, baby!"

Well, if so many people would like the tyre model to be released when it's not perfect according to the devs they ofcourse could also play the current LFS or any of the other sims out there, because those also aren't perfect according to LFS devs.

Quote from tmehlinger :

Get over yourself. Your management hobby isn't their problem, the money you spend on servers isn't their problem, and doing well in IGTC/MoE/whatever isn't their problem. They simply sell a product, what you do with it is your own business.

The sense of entitlement here is downright absurd. We're all excited for an update but they don't owe us shit. You got what you paid for, if you don't enjoy it anymore, move on and quit shitting up the discussion here.

lol, aren't you the hard man? The bad ass that knows what's important and what's not. Pathetic little man.

What he's saying is that he is trying to keep the community together and that it's hard because of the lack of updates.

If the unraveling of a part of the community is not a thing the devs care about I wouldn't know what is. And if someone is putting in effort to keep a part of the community running that's only commendable.

Get rid of that faux callous attitude, you only make yourself look like an ****.

Quote from IlGuercio :

Basically what he's saying in the "news" is that it's hard to do a proper working tyre model.
Guess what? I knew it is pretty much impossible to have a model that stick perfectly to the reality.
A progress report should contain progresses while Scawen's post clearly doesn't so i can't really understand what have you guys seen in his words.
Most of the news it's Scawen's way to explain noobs how a tyre works (i suppose it was too difficult for those who are analphabets to google something about it) and the rest of it was the same old "it's difficult" and bla bla bla.
Do we understand how far into the completion of the patch we are? No.
Do we understand how Eric is doing so far? No.
If the best thing a bunch of guys can say about their work (which they supposely earn money from) is "i don't have a boss, make your own business" i think i can explain why they are not billionaires.
I am not taking it personally but the fact is i still can't understand what's all this about.
Don't you guys have anymore will to keep on developing the game?
Why don't you just be honest with the community and say what has to be said?

Meh, I'm just glad they're still working on it. And "It's very hard and we want perfection, that's why it's taking so long." is enough explanation for me.

In the mean time I'll go on with my life. No biggie.

Epic, epic, epic.

I found the report in my spambox.
I've rarely felt a relief like this in my life. That the waiting is not in vain. That the love that I feel for LFS is not unrequited.

Now that I know that a very long silence from the devs doesn't mean the project is dead I'll gladly wait another year. Well, not gladly. But another long silent wait will not effect my faith in the project as much now I know that it doesn't mean something negative. I think other people will feel the same way.

Scavier, thanks!

Last edited by Ferrero Rocher, Sat, 25 Dec 2010 01:11.

Quote from Franky.S :

I dont understand why some people complain about the lack of updates when you haven't done all combos with all cars in lfs. I haven't done them all and im still exploring some aspects of the game/sim and that is what is keeping me on lfs in these hard times. People need to be creative and stop whoring the same combos all the time and do combos that you really hate. Why? Because you will get good at it after some practice and will have a good laugh trying to attempt to be good at something you hate.

There are different motivations to enjoy a game. These motivations rarely stand alone, every player has a combination of them.
I understand some people will say: "It's a matter of taste, you can't say anything sensible about taste." But when you try to design a game that's not enough, you can't design a game sensibly when thinking like that.
I study game design, so I'll try to explain what I understand about the motivations to "like" a game. Or what experiences people pursue in gaming.

Roughly there are four categories:

Motion.
Racing LFS feels good. It gives a feeling of physical movement and interaction. This "movement" motivation applies to all of us simracers I think. We all like to "feel" how the weight of the car shifts and how the tyres lose grip and to stay in that place (the edge of controlability) where those feelings are the strongest.

Competition.
There is the competition motivation, the will to win. Those people will try to master all cominations. These people will like to test their skill against the competition against the environment and against other players.

Mimicry.
There is the mimicry motivation (cruisers :shy. Here the player enjoys himself if he/she "is" something he/she is not "really". The experience these players look for is to experience what a racecar driver feels or what a policeman experiences when het pulls over a car or pursues a car.

Chance.
Then there is the "chance" motivation, which mainly applies to gambling. But for instance mechanical failures or a weather system in a driving game tap into this a little.

For me the "competition" motivation is very weak. I enjoy to "feel" the cars. I enjoy to feel like I'm a race driver sitting in a race car. I enjoy weather effects that bring unpredictable circumstances and to gamle with tyre choices. And in the last place comes the competition element for me. Winnig gives me no thrill, honestly.

Just my pedantic two cents.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Can you show me where this promise is?

I remember Scavier saying the INTEND to continally develop the sim, and they INTENDED to release a patch a long time ago, but I have NEVER seen a PROMISE from the devs about either.

Sorry for the capitals. I'm aware it makes me look like Intrepid. Bold/Italic seemed wrong.

I'm not a graphic designer, but capitals are fine by me.

Just because the words "We, the devs of LFS solemnly swear that..." have not been used does not mean there is no promise made.
If I say I intend to do something I feel an obligation to do that. A declararion of intention to do something, is that not a promise? To say you "intend" to do something is basically "legal speak" to cover yourself for failure. If the client or whoever complains you're not doing as you said you would you can always say: "Yes, but I intend to, that's what I promised."

That "intention" coupled to the fact that we're still in, what the devs call version 0.5, doesn't that create a very, very, very strong impression stat there's much more development to come?

Did they deliberately create that impression (to convince players to buy a licence)? I certainly think so.
Did they believe in it themselves? I certainly think so.
Did I believe it? Yup.
Do I still believe it? Yup.
Am I worried? Yup.

Quote from 91mason91 :

I laugh in the face of impatient 12 year olds.

Well. it's not really impatience, but a promise has been made.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but the promise of continuous development was one of the sellingpoints that convinced me to buy a licence. Once I had finished the driving tests in the demo I bought a licence because I felt like there was epic potential in this physics engine. I bought the licence to support the developers and stimulate them to add features and make everything better.

I am not a LFS driver since the very beginning. When I bought my licence I got S2 right away, so I'm fairly new I guess. But the thing is that since I got my licence there have been no significant changes or additional features that I can think of.

With a "normal" game when you buy it, you pay so you can play it as it is. But with LFS my intentions were different. I decided to pay so the devs could keep developing. I feel like I made a little investment. Maybe it would have been better to have kept driving the demo. But I decided to not be a pussy and commit to this project by investing some money so there could be something better in the end. I love simracing and I believed LFS could be the best sim out there if development would continue.

I feel a bit sad because we, the users, showed trust by investing in a product of wich the developers admit it is not finished. We showed trust by paying for that unfinished product.
We said: "Nevermind those ridiculous barrier glitches, you'll get it right in the end. Those super smooth road surfaces? Update that when you come to it. Grass through the bottom of the car? Haha, that's small, you devs will fix that eventually."
But in my "LFS life" I've seen no changes I can think of.

So I wouldn't call the emotions on the forum "impatience". I would say I'm worried. Worried that this great happening of trust and love for simracing will wither.

Meh, probably making a new car doesn't take two years. But this is a new tyre model. It's like the basis of the game. If the devs change that EVERYTHING else that's based on that has to change too. And since LFS is a driving game pretty much the entire game is affected by those changes.

But I think we're in for a pleasant surprise. Since it's taking this long there probably is more in the pipeline than announced.

Maybe Scawen thought: "**** it, since I'm changing the entire tyre model, why not implement wet weather driving while we're at it?"
Or maybe the changes in quality are so great that the team decided to go straight to S3 and they are working on content and features for that now.
Connected to the new tyremodel might be an overhaul of the force feedback too.
Or connected to the tyre model and FFB also: bumby tracks! So the laserscanning of Rockingham in great detail is not a waste of resources.

I admit that I get pretty sad everytime I visit this forum. I'm always hoping for news, but I'm always disappointed when there is none. I too fear that the development of LFS will bleed to death. Not the community, the community will remain.
But we must remember that what LFS does, it does very,very good. The base is great. There is no sim where I feel the weight of the car as good as in LFS. And a lot of people complain about the engine sound. But I love it. It is not designed to sound like you hear it on TV. Because it's not a simulation of sound like you hear it from your TV. It's a simulation of how engine sound reacts to changes in engine load. That is done very well and I hope they never change that because of people complaining like netKar did.

The basis and its discerning features are among the best in the business, and with a new tyre model they will be even better. The devs need to build on that very strong base to bring it to the next level.

I suspect LFS will go to the next level and deliver quality. I believe it. I hope it.

Quote from aaltomar :

I don't post much these days. After the first years there has been little to talk about. Progress wise.

And hopefully it won't become "Racing Legends":
http://www.west-racing.com/forum/index.php?topic=2987.0

That's right, the forum is still running in spite that six years ago they said "Sorry":
"We value the interest you have all shown in the project greatly. We just throw ourselves into the work and forget about everything else going on to get this out as soon as we can so you can actually make your own minds up about what we are attempting."

Maybe they are still coding it and are having so much fun that they forgot the crowd waiting outside in the cold. Waiting for the promise that never came.

Aah, dude that post makes me sad. It reminds me of how exited I was about Racing Legends. And how that dream faded away slowly and silently, like a fart in a breeze. A dream the clearly was a dream, too grand to be realised. But yet, I hoped and I prayed.

And now, seven years later... you bring that still chafing moist wound on my soul to my attention again. Thanks, douche.



But really, what a sad feeling it brings to me I can hardly describe. Desolation is a word that comes close. Fleeting dreams that got diluted by the wind so they can never be grasped again. Lost forever and even the fond memories tainted.

Punctures from debris would be great. But first we'd need debris. Or sharp inside edges on kerbstones.

Just some features that would demand even more racecraft than LFS already does.
Just like sand or oil, or rain, I would like those changing track conditions.

Could this be true?
I did a long stint on Aston once, and my tires were getting thin. A couple of laps before I actually planned to change the tyres I blasted up the kerbs of the final chicane with my left front wheel and my tyre popped.
Did it pop because I blasted up the kerb? Does LFS have such a feature? Did the pressure change in the tyre because of the impact cause the tyre to rupture? Or did it just pop because the tread was completely gone exactly at the moment I hit the kerb?

Last edited by Ferrero Rocher, Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:04.

It seems that in an FWD if you get the back a bit loose at entry you distribute some of the lateral forces that are generated during direction change to the back tyres, so the front has more grip in reserve at the time you reach the apex.

A smoother, rounder entry at a bit higher speed might help.
And make sure of your weight shifting. You have to be smooth, silky smoove.

Setups will also help you smoothen your style.

Not with time penalties, O ye of little reading skills.

Like I said, because it defeats the purpose of a game.

I've got a fever, and the only perscription is more realistic smoke.

Weather > Smoke

As equal as possible without getting unreasonable then. Being able to turn an assist off when players want it is not unreasonable.

Jesus...

Clutch control is - if you like it or not - a part of car simulation. If you can't use it - for whatever reason - there should be an opportunity to drive with autoclutch. That's not the question.

The issue is this: A sport or a game is an activity in which people overcome unnecessary obstacles under equal conditions to determine who possesses the most skill. If you take away the equal conditions the entire concept of what a sport or game is gets spoiled.

So by not having autoclutch as a server-option the opportunity to meet the conditions that constitute a fair game is taken away from a large part of the community.

It is not about being faster, it's about the fact that the basic nature of what a sport or game is, is being denied to a substantial group of LFS users.

Or not.

What's all the crying about?

It's like a restaurant where a jacket is mandatory. If you don't have one, there are enough other places where you still can get grub. And if you do have a jacket, you'll have a good time at the jacketplace.
Other sims have a non-autoclutch option too. It has never hurt anybody there.

If people face the extra challenge of correctly using a clutch, as the sim is designed for, it's not fair to let them race against people who have the advantage of autoclutch.

It's an assist after all.

Quote from NitroNitrous :

What? I agree with you in every point but this one. Every sound in LFS is really bad IMO, especially the engines.



I hope so, is the weakest point of LFS by far.

I'll try that tweak, thanks Gnomie

The sounds may not be recordings like in other sims. But they are simulating what the engine would sounds like. I like how the sounds are adapting to what the car and the environment does constantly. As opposed to other sims where there is a very "linear" feel to the sound progression.

If engine damage will be implemented one day (I pray for it to come), wouldn't it be awesome to be able to hear that you've lost a cilinder? Or that your exhaust is leaking?

That's LFS imho: It simulates, it doesn't imitate.