Quote from Intrepid :

The FIA took CLEAR and CONCISE action with the GP2 lad!

and what was the punishment?

Quote from JJ72 :

Massa got a fine.

which is an ok outcome........but Ferrari should go back to the lollipop man.

AFAIK, the team did get the fine, not Massa. Which is right since Massa didn't do anything wrong.

And there is no lollipop man at Ferrari anymore, they got the 1337 light system.

I'm sorry, I'm about to faint due to the sheer horrible stench of double standards.

GP2 is officiated by largely the same team as F1 (Charlie Whiting etc...) and Karun Chandhok got a drive-through within a few minutes for a nowhere near as bad offence.

Massa nearly hits Sutil, and there's no actual penalty (well, a fine smaller than how much the stewards spend on acid over the course of a race weekend).

Aside from some blue on the car, why should Chandhok get a penalty and Massa not?

Quote from zeugnimod :

they got the 1337 light system.

And it's practically paying itself out...

is anyone surprised by the "penalty" ? the moment they defered their decission to the end of te race it was more than likely that it would be a fine rather than a penalty that could alter the result in either this or the next gp.

i'm not a ferrari fan but i suspect the reason they escaped a harsher penalty was their position at the end of the pit lane, massa was able to run alongside sutil and then drop behind wereas if they had been mid pitlane, which the gp2 car that i saw penalised was, he would have had to choose between running into sutil or the next pit crew if sutil had been alongside him. it may seem unfair but thats one of the advantages of being last in the pitlane and why it goes to the current world champions.r

GP2 isn't controlled by the FIA though so it has no effect on the rules of F1.

Massa shouldn't of been given a fine though as it was his teams fault not his fault for being put in a dangerous position.

I can't believe they would be allowed to build a new circuit with such a narrow pitlane.

Massa: "As far as I am concerned I did nothing wrong. It is more about Adrian Sutil than me."

Mmmkay.

If the light went green it cannot be Massa's fault really. Still, worse things have happened, it was only a near miss.

Quote from Mustafur :

GP2 isn't controlled by the FIA though so it has no effect on the rules of F1.

Massa shouldn't of been given a fine though as it was his teams fault not his fault for being put in a dangerous position.

So you don't need an FIA licence to compete in GP2, and adhere to the FIA rulebook?

Just seen the highlights, not going to comment on the Massa penalty ( as can see both sides and come down 50/50) but I seriously doubt that the light system is the way forward.

A lollypop man would have held Massa back 9 times out of 10, i don't know where the guy pressing the go button is placed, but I doubt it's in a better place than were the lollypop guy would be.

Quote from Intrepid :

So you don't need an FIA licence to compete in GP2, and adhere to the FIA rulebook?

A little off-topic, but you need a FIA license for a lot of non-FIA events. Even ALMS drivers need FIA licenses.

So the decision not to award an immediate penalty might be questionable, but not worth whining about. In another race, Bruno Senna also was released in a crap fashion but didn't get a penalty.

The differences between the Massa vs Sutil and Chandhok vs Soucek incidents:
Massa vs Sutil
- Massa ran into the lane slightly behind Sutil
- Massa took evasive action, lifted off, and tucked in behind Sutil.
Chandhok vs Soucek
- Chandhok ran into the lane in front of Soucek
- Soucek had to brake to avoid Chandhok

Massa was released wrongly by the team, but did the right thing by lifting off and tucking behind Sutil. Chandhok was released wrongly by the team, and did the wrong thing by bulling his way in. Therefore, Massa does not deserve the same level of penalty, if any at all.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

A lollypop man would have held Massa back 9 times out of 10, i don't know where the guy pressing the go button is placed, but I doubt it's in a better place than were the lollypop guy would be.

He was just to the right of Massa. So the positioning was crap. In fact, he wasn't even looking at the track.

Ferrari is really not doing well this year - the pit crew that is, not the drivers.

Quote from samjh :

He was just to the right of Massa. So the positioning was crap. In fact, he wasn't even looking at the track.

Ferrari is really not doing well this year - the pit crew that is, not the drivers.

I got the impression that there were multiple buttons, however the crew on the pit wall have a master button which can override things for such an occasion where the driver shouldnt have left his spot.

IMO, its a terrible device. We've seen plenty of incidents with lollypop guys, so its not like you can put the blame entirely on it, but you need someone with a bit of common sense not a set of lights.
No lollypop guy would have let massa go, and that for me is telling of the whole investigation. Massa didnt give way, he had no choice but to stop cos he was facing a concrete wall had he not, and blaming Sutil is nothing short of insulting.
Thing is, if you keep letting dangerous things slide which are punishable by the rules of the series, then where does it stop? If its acceptable to continue to break the rules and let cars go into traffic, then everyone will do the same, point to this and expect the Ferrari red carpet treatment. Then eventually an accident will happen, cars will block the pit lane, and maybe then they'll grow some balls and consider using the rules they created.

They've said on the spanish TV that the lights turn green as soon as the car is dropped after changing tires, but i'm not sure of that cause most of the time when the car is on it's four wheels ready to leave pits they're still refuelling.

yeah, and you can edit your 'ignorance' crap out. Ive been watching F1 since before you were born, so just cos your a stupid little spaniard going against what everyone has said about the race, and the majority have said about the dull joke of a venue, doesnt make someone ignorant.

NEVER in the 19 years ive been watching F1, has the series been to such a pathetic venue. It wouldnt suprise me if we end up at some equally pathetic ones if theres money in it, but Valencia is a joke venue. Considering there are 2 F1 standard tracks in Spain, why the hell F1 went there ive no idea. If they had to go back to Spain, who 5 years ago you couldnt pay fickle folks like you to attend the races, then Jerez would have been a far better venue, and im sure theres a 3rd which is used over the winter (Jarama?), though it may be a Portuguese track (not Estoril).

As for the green light, as ive said... There are multiple buttons, my guess is the jack/trolly once the tyres are done, the fuel man, and a master button on the pit wall. I cant see as anyone else would need one, the trolly would put you onto amber once any work on the car was done (tyres, wing tweaks or repairs etc) and the fuel guys would take it to green i guess.


Also, when you consider that Bernie and co are constantly going on about all these places wanting to hold races, and they pick Valencia...

Over here the commentators talked to one of the Ferrari pit engineers or a member of the pit crew and he told them that the green light is operated by a human being. That means someone thought it would be smart to press the button and turn the green light on and that's gunna cost him some money. It is NOT automated and the guy made it clear because the commentators thought it was.

Quote from PaulC2K :

I got the impression that there were multiple buttons, however the crew on the pit wall have a master button which can override things for such an occasion where the driver shouldnt have left his spot.

IMO, its a terrible device. We've seen plenty of incidents with lollypop guys, so its not like you can put the blame entirely on it, but you need someone with a bit of common sense not a set of lights.
No lollypop guy would have let massa go, and that for me is telling of the whole investigation. Massa didnt give way, he had no choice but to stop cos he was facing a concrete wall had he not, and blaming Sutil is nothing short of insulting.
Thing is, if you keep letting dangerous things slide which are punishable by the rules of the series, then where does it stop? If its acceptable to continue to break the rules and let cars go into traffic, then everyone will do the same, point to this and expect the Ferrari red carpet treatment. Then eventually an accident will happen, cars will block the pit lane, and maybe then they'll grow some balls and consider using the rules they created.

EXACTLY...... well put that man

agree on the track too, not gona say anything about this track (dont want to upset the apple cart) but i cart understand spending that kind of money on a new track thats not exactly breath taking, when there are hundreds round the world waiting and are a damn site more interesting than this!

EDIT: but ya just know bernnie linned his pockets with this deal thats the reason lets face it

Quote from evilpimp :

Over here the commentators talked to one of the Ferrari pit engineers or a member of the pit crew and he told them that the green light is operated by a human being. That means someone thought it would be smart to press the button and turn the green light on and that's gunna cost him some money. It is NOT automated and the guy made it clear because the commentators thought it was.

That was purely the interviewer being a n00b, they used 'automated' (as has been the term for it for a while it seems) which is basically wrong terminology for 'electronic' as thats all it is, theres nothing special about it in the slightest, its technology for the sake of it. I not sure anyone out there thought there was some computer making the decisions, and if they did then their commentators need their head sorting out.
It requires multiple guys to say their job is done, and thats when the driver floors it. They're not telling him to go, purely that their done and the driver *can* go, and from what i gather the only person who makes the call on whether its safe to go is the guy on the pit wall who has the override on it all, he could have held the button to stop it going green until it was safe, a job previously given to a lollypop guy.


I'd take exactly what that guy said with a pinch of salt though due to the language barrier, afterall, he did refer to the guy who got dragged to the floor by Kimi as 'she' in the middle of the interview

Quote from mythdat :

shrug... The Same Thing Happened At Hockenheim And Nobody Got Punished. That's Your Precedent, Forget About All This Gp2 Rubbish. Gp2 Is Not F1.

In Fact This Happens Nearly Every Other Race And Nobody Ever Gets Punished... How Many Times Have We Seen Cars Side-by-side In The Pitlane And Nobody Punished (hint: Lots). But Yeah, As Soon As A Ferrari Is Involved It's "omg Conspiracy"

+4

^How come in mythdat's post every word gets capitalized when you quote it? Yeah it's a bug in the forum but what causes it?

Quote from deggis :

^How come in mythdat's post every word gets capitalized when you quote it? Yeah it's a bug in the forum but what causes it?

HE'S A WITCH DOCTOR :gandalf:

I still don't get why Massa was given a fine. it wasn't his fault, a drive through would of made more sence as it effects the team(not saying it should of happened as it was easily solved).

The team should of been given the fine, not the driver who can't even see the other driver untill he has almost hit him.

So then surely the team should be punished when the car needs an engine change, or when it needs a gearbox change because the driver doesn't build an engine or gearbox. Howabouts if the car comes in underweight the team should be punished as well.

The rules state the driver is responsible, hence WHY massa was punished.

Quote from deggis :

^how Come In Mythdat's Post Every Word Gets Capitalized When You Quote It? Yeah It's A Bug In The Forum But What Causes It?

+1

Anytime you post something, that would apply the "capitalization fix" to a post (a +# post counts too), it does the capitalization fix to the quote too, however it only works on 1 word replys (I think).

Quote from Intrepid :

So then surely the team should be punished when the car needs an engine change, or when it needs a gearbox change because the driver doesn't build an engine or gearbox. Howabouts if the car comes in underweight the team should be punished as well.

The rules state the driver is responsible, hence WHY massa was punished.

Still stupid to me, he was put in a dangerous position by his pit crew which was unavoidable.

Quote from Gizz :

HE'S A WITCH DOCTOR :gandalf:

Ooo eee, ooo ah ah, ting tang Walla walla, bing bang

Interesting demonstration this weekend. I quite enjoyed the parade concept, you can go for a pee, come back and nothing has changed as far as the race is concerned - that's a truly viewer-friendly idea. And not to mention that you could watch it all in reverse too and it would still be the same.

If I'm not mistaken there was only one overtaking maneuver after the start that was shown on TV and that was Nakajima divebombing Fisichella or someone like that for 14th position.

The only things that could be classified as "action" were mostly involving lights, haste and fumigation. Kinda like riding a bicycle at night after having too many beans.