Quote from Scawen :

Sounds like some stupid issue with Vista being over protective as usual to the point where you can't use your own computer.

Never had any problems here with lfs on vista home premium 64 bits. Lfs is stable and frame-rate is very good.

I've noted that some mp replays were recorded not to the end (may be not up to the moment when they've been saved). Yet I couldn't figure that out, but saw this at least three times: the replays ended mid-race when I was too busy driving with mouse to save them manually. Has anybody else noted the same?

Quote from Bluebird B B :

Never had any problems here with lfs on vista home premium 64 bits. Lfs is stable and frame-rate is very good.

The thing that worries me about LFS on Vista from LFS is the auto updater. You know more about this than me because I don't have Vista, and I'm very happy to to have it... but in Vista's default mode it doesn't allow LFS to simply download and install an update. I know it comes up with dialogs and so on asking the user about running as an administrator and so on. I'm sure there is some logic behind it but it's not easy for new users to understand.

And then the programmer has to jump through hoops to get around this thing that makes something that should be easy, now become so hard, specially for users who don't know that much about computers. Some people I know who aren't very experienced with computers, don't like Vista because it is so annoying. I don't really understand what Microsoft were trying to achieve. I can only think they were trying to reduce computer security issues.

But it seems to me like trying to make a car safe by covering it in lead armour to avoid the sun's radiation, filling it with already inflated air bags in case you might have an accident and welding the doors shut in case someone might want to steal your mobile phone.

Quote from Scawen :

But it seems to me like trying to make a car safe by covering it in lead armour to avoid the sun's radiation, filling it with already inflated air bags in case you might have an accident and welding the doors shut in case someone might want to steal your mobile phone.

A surprisingly accurate analogy

I was planning a fresh OS install of both systems in the near future anyway, I'll see if I can get it done tomorrow and see what happens.

Nice work on the AA, now my LFS looks so nice!!!!

I stopped playing for a while but this update will get me back on the circuit

This is my first time posting in the test forum...I download every test patch that comes out and always eagerly await new releases but I never run into any issues or find any bugs so I don't feel the need to post here, haha

Quote from Scawen :

Sounds like some stupid issue with Vista being over protective as usual to the point where you can't use your own computer.

You may find this article intresting: http://arstechnica.com/news.ar ... esigned-to-annoy-you.html

I know you're a busy guy so I'll just quote the jist of the article.

Quote :

UAC's real purpose is quite simple: it's meant to trip whenever a routine attempts to elevate security privileges, and get in your face. As we have reported before, this has two goals: a) it give users a chance to approve of the elevation in the off chance that something wrong is happening, and b) it encourages developers to design their software such that privilege elevations aren't needed in the first place. The latter is really the point of UAC, since users have absolutely zero control over the privilege requests their applications make (other than to chose not to install said apps).

UAC is just there to help you protect you and also help software developers (you) produce more secure software for your users. I'm not saying please change LFS to adapt to these new found standards, I'm just showing you why they were implemented if you didn't already know. I haven't had any issues on Vista so far, LFS runs like a champ

Anyways, I look forward to the next patch! You guys are doing an awesome job!

Quote from Scawen :

Any examples?

I think the options screens are quite consistent, not *fully* consistent because each has its own special coding because of each one's different needs and purposes.

Sometimes it may seem random, for example "skins in memory" on the misc options page. But that's some spare space and there are skin related options on that page, so it's not really random. It would be quite a bad idea to make a special page for that info - which isn't the most vital info at all but is nice to know and is happily tucked away in the misc options screen. On the view menu there are a couple of things that appear on the right, but they are 100% related to what's on the left.

Anyway I have no real idea what you mean, I can only guess because you didn't give any examples. The options screens get a little rearrangement every now and then but I don't see any real problems with them at the moment.

Just a case of various bits not lining up with other bits of graphic on the same page or inconsitancy of layout between pages, (predominantly stuff on the right hand side), which you can see if you scroll between pages. Stuff seems to move around. I think it would look neater if you had fixed positions on the pages for left and right columns of information so when you flick between pages you have consitant areas of information presentation and areas of background.

Quote :

Corner buttons are the easiest to click. It's mostly about ease of use and clear distinctions. I didn't design most of the colours but I am quite happy with them. I think the orange-red (cancel / back) buttons are designed to go with the logo.

Fair point, but then you have other buttons within the menus, such as the various page buttons in the options menu, also for example the "interface" button. I just feel the corner buttons would look more integrated with the rest of the feel of the graphics if they looked like these other buttons but with the same colours as the logo, (if those are the colours you prefer).


On a completely different, (and more important issue), I just had this patch die on me whilst trying to adjust an interface colour.

I'm running Vista 32bit and this is the event log:

Faulting application LFS.exe, version 0.0.0.0, time stamp 0x482dd122, faulting module nvd3dum.dll, version 7.15.11.7516, time stamp 0x481c0c8f, exception code 0xc0000005, fault offset 0x002dc7ce, process id 0x810, application start time 0x01c8b9177b573179.

Followed by these logs:

A request to disable the Desktop Window Manager was made by process (LFS.exe)

The Desktop Window Manager was unable to start because composition was disabled by a running application

@ Mr _Drunk.. therein lies the problem.. because a software update is bound to require elevated permissions.. the changes to LFS are significant - a new LFS.exe for starters, plus more. My understanding is that there is no mechanism provided to s/ware developers to make the changes required to their own software without tripping this ridiculous UAC when it's enabled.

It's just not reasonable to blame s/ware developers for the fundamental security inadequacies of the OS.

I wasn't blaming anyone. I was just stating why UAC was implemented. I know it is ridiculous. I'm a computer tech and most of my clients only gripe about Vista is the annoying UAC prompts. They are pretty easy to disable so its not that big of a deal.

Everything is documented. Microsoft wouldn't release a silly thing like that and not tell anyone how to update their code to avoid annoyance. Here's the link, http://download.microsoft.com/ ... indowsVistaUACDevReqs.doc

One thing I hope is that Microsoft can come up with a better solution for Windows 7. Vista is a great foundation for something much better so we can only look ahead and see what they have to offer next

I haven't dealt with UAC much, I've been using the Super-Admin account as my main account since the start It just gives everything admin status, without prompting me every 2 bloody seconds. And it's no more prone to infection than with UAC on, I've yet to come across a malicious program that asks for permission to infect a PC

Quote from Scawen :

I don't really understand what Microsoft were trying to achieve.

i think something along the lines of what sudo does in linux

Quote from SamH :

@ Mr _Drunk.. therein lies the problem.. because a software update is bound to require elevated permissions..

yes but tinkering with installed software is not something a normal user should be priviliged to do

not sure if it works in vista but if you give the user account rwx rights on the folder games are installed in it should not be a problem

Quote :

It's just not reasonable to blame s/ware developers for the fundamental security inadequacies of the OS.

in this case it very much is
software that practically forces you to be logged in with root priviliges at all times is a security hole that is not the os developers fault

For me it works very well (Vista Ultimate x64) without running the LFS.exe as Administrator.
The first time I played on Multiplayer, the firewall showed up and I choose to not block LFS.exe anymore ....
so no problems for me on Vista everything works fine so far.
I like the new replay functions but the interface, the entry screen as well as the multiplayer screen have this new buttons but the rest!? As I said I like it but its so confusing, new buttons here - old buttons there, just my opinion
In conclusion good work so far

MfG Reese

What's the verdict on the black sky?
I combed through the thread but didnt find a sollution short of reinstalling LFS.

Quote from gohfeld23 :

What's the verdict on the black sky?
I combed through the thread but didnt find a sollution short of reinstalling LFS.

The solution is wait for Y20+ :dunce:
(Or not use widescreen)

Quote from 510N3D :

Edit: After i have restarted LFS to see what happens then, the yellow bar is going to the very end again but now it is stopping where i have clicked to (or the yellow bar should be)...

OK, the bug turned out to be that if the MPR was of a race that you had joined after it had already started, the yellow line (replay destination) was shown in the wrong place when you tried to fast forward to any point.

For example if the race had already run for 3 minutes when you joined, then later when watching the replay, you clicked at the 1 minute point in your replay, it would try to draw the yellow bar at the 4 minute point (but was bounded to the end of the slider bar) although functionally it worked correctly and actually forwarded correctly to the clicked point.

The Y20 patch notes will have this line :

FIX : Replay destination was wrong in MPR of already started race

And I'm just reporting the fix here now because that one-liner is a bit short. I must keep the fix descriptions short!

How about "FIX : Timeline marked incorrect race time in incomplete replays"?

I'm just messing!! It's so difficult to cram clear information into short sentences.. it's an artform in itself!

I have a Q. Yesterday a few S2 users (me + 2 friends) was racing on S1 server and we decided to race on BL1R. We were all kicked from the server (JOOS error or sometning similar). Is this Y18 related?. It looked like LFS made us demo users and decided we cant race there

Maybe it is server related. Hope it can be replicated...

Quote from Scawen :

OK, the bug turned out to be that if the MPR was of a race that you had joined after it had already started, the yellow line (replay destination) was shown in the wrong place when you tried to fast forward to any point.

For example if the race had already run for 3 minutes when you joined, then later when watching the replay, you clicked at the 1 minute point in your replay, it would try to draw the yellow bar at the 4 minute point (but was bounded to the end of the slider bar) although functionally it worked correctly and actually forwarded correctly to the clicked point.

The Y20 patch notes will have this line :

FIX : Replay destination was wrong in MPR of already started race

And I'm just reporting the fix here now because that one-liner is a bit short. I must keep the fix descriptions short!

Ok this makes perfectly sense. I guess that the same thing (fix) should apply on replays which are beeing recorded in practice mode as well? Since i have tried shorter replays which i have created at the same server without having this "issue", longer replay's instead would be only viewable with this "bug".

Quirks:

• When you press Escape while dragging the slider, you first get the menu, and when you return from the menu, the replay-rewinding starts. (I expected the drag to be canceled.)
  
• When you move to the start of the replay, the screen is black. (I expected to see the first frame, or at least the "Paused" indicator.)

Suggestions for buttons:

• Fast-forward button to control the speed (left-click == F2; right-click == F3; wheel-click == reset speed to 1.0).
  
• Button to move to the start of the next/previous lap (as measured on the leading car).

Awsome patch!! The new menu is cool i think! We've waited a long time for the replay menus! Good work!!

Scawen, if you want a copy of Vista PM me - I'll be more than happy to give you a spare Vista Business Key I have (although you'll have to find a Vista Business disk).

(It's totally legal, never been used - I just can't sell it due to the license when I got it for free so it's useless to me!)

Quote from ru7 [SLO] :

I have a Q. Yesterday a few S2 users (me + 2 friends) was racing on S1 server and we decided to race on BL1R. We were all kicked from the server (JOOS error or sometning similar). Is this Y18 related?. It looked like LFS made us demo users and decided we cant race there

Maybe it is server related. Hope it can be replicated...

I guess it's not Y18 related but please do let me know if you can reproduce it.

Quote from Jakg :

Scawen, if you want a copy of Vista PM me - I'll be more than happy to give you a spare Vista Business Key I have (although you'll have to find a Vista Business disk).

(It's totally legal, never been used - I just can't sell it due to the license when I got it for free so it's useless to me!)

Thanks but... I think what I'll need to do is get a new computer soon anyway, with Vista on it and then have a look what this UAC and elevation is all about.

Quote from wsinda :

Suggestions for buttons:

• Fast-forward button to control the speed (left-click == F2; right-click == F3; wheel-click == reset speed to 1.0).
  
• Button to move to the start of the next/previous lap (as measured on the leading car).

+1

nice work scawen

i hope its not a dump question that was asked 100000 times before, but it would be greate to have LFSworld in lfs too

looking fereword for patch Y20

Maybe use mouse wheel to scroll along the replay (5 or 10 seconds step)?