^^But if he didn't change down so quickly he wouldn't end up spinning, equally if he blipped (which I can't understand why that can't be done with any throttle setup) he wouldn't have had the issue. LFS isn't an arcade game the whole point is you have to do the driving, and I doubt many who are really looking for a simulation will seriously walk away declaring it's too hard to drive with an unrealistic control method so quickly. LFS shouldn't be accessible to those who don't wish to have a realistic racing experience IMO, there are lots and lots of semi-sims that will let these people have fun letting a computer drive a car for them under the illusion they're brilliant.

Quote from AndroidXP :

I think this thread is hilarious.

Scawen comes in and says "Hey guys, I made A, B and C. Hope you enjoy it!" and immediately all people go "Holy crap, we get apple pie, butter cake and coffee, awesome!" with others chiming in "But I don't like butter cake ".

My thoughts.

I'm glad nobody has noticed Elvis yet, disguised as a mechanic, hiding behind a pillar in the pits of the new Blackwood.

Quote from ajp71 :

To my knowledge LFS is the only racing simulation which actually tries to cater for keyboard/mouse users

Yes, for example mouse is not even supported in all new sims. But this is like taking lollipop away from a child - which he shouldn't have in the first place (for example this auto cut & blip). Keyboarders feel like something is going to be taken away from them. I don't want to look like a hater but all keyboard users should understand their position as a minority who plays the game with wrong controller(s).


...

Quote from ajp71 :

using the argument it'll wear your pedals out is just silly.

No it's not. The accelerator pedal spring on my old MS Sidewinder wheel just snapped, totally unexpectedly, a while ago. And although my first DFP went up the creek due to some power failure inside the wheel, we've all read about the problems the DFP pedals can have. My second DFP (provided under warranty - excellent service from Logitech) has noticeably better feeling pedals, presumably just a better batch as both sets were rev. B.

Quote from bbman :

:doh:

I'm lost for words, really...



Like I said last time (those FCV-wars), many people in the community just love all those unrealistic bits they've grown so fond of in the last years, they forgot to embrace changes for what they are: improvements...

Umm, actually I think you'll find I'm generally on the side of realism. The pro-FCV argument had merit in that it was simply an issue of viewpoint and realism, not a question of controller hardware or expenditure to acquire said hardware. As mentioned, I expect some slight penalisation for having some automatic help with my pedal-less clutch and so on, but if the cost of having some help due to not having a G25 goes too far then it's not an improvement, just a pain in the arse.

Quote from ATHome :

I do manual lift offs ever since I got my DFP 2 years ago, an my accelerator still works pretty well, so that's no problem for your pedals...

But it also depends on how you will treat them. If you'll kick you DFP pedals (which isn't necessary, as you will be just as fast as if you just lift your foot) then they will take damage, but so will your sequential shifter knob if you will treat it like a real sequential shift stick

Well, that's reassuring. I'm generally pretty gentle with the controls, and I keep the FFB strength on the low end of medium. Naturally if I had a pair of ECCI pedals I wouldn't think twice about all the lifting - I've tried the lifting before and enjoyed the extra involvement, but went back to auto throttle cut simply out of concern at the wear rate of the springs and pots being increased (at least) dozenfold.

Quote from mrodgers :

We won't know until the patch is released though. But it would be unfair to clutch users if us auto clutchers can spin and not stall.

It's a rich man's world out there. With many things, you pay to play or you get out. I'm still holding on to the fact that this doesn't happen to simple 'computer gaming'.

Very true, I agree. It's a difficult balance for Scawen to strike, and I guess that whatever he does with the controls will upset some people. The fact that LFS can be played on such a wide range of PC hardware, from an early Pentium IV to the Core2Duo, is one of the reasons LFS is so popular. Many people wouldn't be playing it if they were forced to use the latest and greatest hardware. I don't see why it should be any different when it comes to controller hardware.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Is the racing line actually a server option, or is all of this pure speculation?

Only speculation based on the video and the lines in the translation file:

3a_rswtch_r 1 - watch replay
3a_rssave_r 2 - save replay
3h_showline 4 - show racing line

3h_noraceln racing line display is not available

Quote :

As for blip/cut: Anyone with a control set to accelerate already has a control to let them blip and cut the throttle, so all they need to do is start using it properly and stop relying on robots to do all the more complicated parts of driving the car. If for some strange reason you don't have a control set to accelerate then you won't need to blip the throttle anyway because we don't have any hills steep enough to get you out of first gear.

:chairfall

this racing line would only help begginers. most of us are used to the tracks that we don't need it. good idea though

A racing line as a tool for beginners learning a track is a great idea, IMO. I certainly don't have an issue with the racing line being visible in SP. I'm picturing Hamilton's £60M simulator and thinking to myself that if it doesn't calculate the optimum driving line around a course, it's coming up short.

Quote from STROBE :

Umm, actually I think you'll find I'm generally on the side of realism. The pro-FCV argument had merit in that it was simply an issue of viewpoint and realism, not a question of controller hardware or expenditure to acquire said hardware. As mentioned, I expect some slight penalisation for having some automatic help with my pedal-less clutch and so on, but if the cost of having some help due to not having a G25 goes too far then it's not an improvement, just a pain in the arse.

I see the point of the problem not having a clutch and be penalised for that (should have taken that out of the quote)... My answer was more directed at the first part of your post, which again doesn't need a third pedal of any sort, thus not favoring any pedal package...

For the issue of pedal wear: let's be honest, that's just an excuse, and a bad one at that... If a controller isn't able to cope with what it has been created for in the first place, it's rubbish anyway, with or without the added stress of blipping/lifting... Also, you always have the option not to do blips, just change down later...

Personally, I can't wait until it'll finally need some skill to do gear shifts properly...

Quote from bbman :

For the issue of pedal wear: let's be honest, that's just an excuse, and a bad one at that... If a controller isn't able to cope with what it has been created for in the first place, it's rubbish anyway, with or without the added stress of blipping/lifting...

FTR: I've been blipping the throttle pedal on my DFP pedal set manually for two years and it's still fine - nothing wrong with it whatsoever. I race wearing socks though - I don't think plastic pedals were intended for shoes, really.

Real men race in socks. Shoes are for the weak!

nah, socks don't give a proper feel of the cold hard pedal.

Barefoot FTW!!

How am i suppose to blip the throttle with two pedal set? In order to properly execute the downshift you have to clutch in, change gear and blip the throttle with the heel and brake with toe at the same time and release the clutch. How are you suppose to do that without a clutch pedal, clutch on the button is so unreal and i never wanted to use it, so how will auto clutch work in that case, i must blip the throttle before i change the gear, but auto clutch engages itself when you already have pressed the gear paddle..

Quote from Boris Lozac :

How am i suppose to blip the throttle with two pedal set? In order to properly execute the downshift you have to clutch in, change gear and blip the throttle with the heel and brake with toe at the same time and release the clutch.

I use auto-clutch in the cars that brake ridiculously quickly (eg: FOX) and still manually blip the throttle. The auto-clutch kicks in when you shift, so just blip at the same time. It works just fine.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

How am i suppose to blip the throttle with two pedal set? In order to properly execute the downshift you have to clutch in, change gear and blip the throttle with the heel and brake with toe at the same time and release the clutch. How are you suppose to do that without a clutch pedal, clutch on the button is so unreal and i never wanted to use it, so how will auto clutch work in that case, i must blip the throttle before i change the gear, but auto clutch engages itself when you already have pressed the gear paddle..

Don't worry, you can handle it. Just downshift and blip the gas at the same time. Every once in a while, you hit it too early and get a little jerk, but usually it works just fine.

I have been running LFS this way for as long as I have used LFS. I find that blipping the throttle myself gives you more control and keeps the rear wheels from locking up so much.

I sifted through many pages to see if anyone else mentioned this, but here is the scenario I think will be:

Scavier knows that a lot of people use a two pedal wheel, mouse or gamepad. So, I think there will be an option so that the program will cut out the throttle automatically, even if you have your throttle wide open, when you shift to a higher gear. It would have to be that way, I would not think Scawen would go to such extremes as NetKar has. We all know he is for simulation, but is also known to compromise for the sake of fun gameplay.

Wait and see, I suppose.

Quote from Hallen :

Don't worry, you can handle it. Just downshift and blip the gas at the same time. Every once in a while, you hit it too early and get a little jerk, but usually it works just fine.

I have been running LFS this way for as long as I have used LFS. I find that blipping the throttle myself gives you more control and keeps the rear wheels from locking up so much.

Hmm, i guess it will be kinda difficult to learn, gotta brake with the same foot and blip, a challenge definately but it will be the same for all, so...

Quote from mrodgers :

Someone sees LFS and wants to give it a go. He downloads the demo, jumps in the GTT (see, there's that GTT reference again ) and spins out braking for the first time on that bump going into Blackwoods first turn because he's downshifting, but can't do all that's required to brake, blip, downshift, and turn with his fingers. He declares the racing game ridiculous in how difficult it is to play and leaves.

Then he's clearly not interested in a simulator. I remember my first time through T1 at Blackwood being a complete and utter disaster. I didn't brake in time, oversteered, understeered and generally made a complete mess of it. Did that turn me off the game? Not at all! Quite the opposite actually. It made me realise this was something special, something more than all the other racing games I had played before, and that made me want to play it again and again until I finally got things under control.

Why this would be any different with a slightly more realistic gearbox/clutch simulation I have no idea. Heck, you can even play with a manual clutch using the keyboard. I did it in Viper Racing at the tender age of 14 for crying out loud. It's easy to do in Live for Speed too once you get the hang of it. You don't have to dumb things down to make it accessible for newbies, keyboarders and mousers . If they want to drive, they'll learn.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Hmm, i guess it will be kinda difficult to learn, gotta brake with the same foot and blip, a challenge definately but it will be the same for all, so...

If you are using a clutch pedal, yes. If you don't have a clutch pedal, leave auto clutch on, left foot brake, and blip the gas with your right foot. It is much easier that way.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Hmm, i guess it will be kinda difficult to learn, gotta brake with the same foot and blip, a challenge definately but it will be the same for all, so...

You can always use your left foot on the brake. In fact, with only two pedals, why would you not left-foot brake? I've always played like that. I even blip the throttle on down-shift right now as it helps stability under braking. If I can do it, everyone can.

Did I notice a fastest line display in the video?
Or is that for AI tracking only?

Quote from wien :

I remember my first time through T1 at Blackwood being a complete and utter disaster. I didn't brake in time, oversteered, understeered and generally made a complete mess of it. Did that turn me off the game? Not at all! Quite the opposite actually. It made me realise this was something special, something more than all the other racing games I had played before, and that made me want to play it again and again until I finally got things under control.

EXACTLY how i felt back in 2003.. I instantly realised that it is something special and finaly something realistic! So those people who are put off by that are not the people that should play LFS.. There is MORE than enough other titles out there that can satisfy their needs, LFS doesn't have to be among them!

Quote from DragonCommando :

Did I notice a fastest line display in the video?
Or is that for AI tracking only?

Read this thread before you post. The answer... er... argument is there.

Quote from Hankstar :

Real men race in socks. Shoes are for the weak!

Omg yes! Can't play lfs without socks!

Can't wait, this video inspires me to buy a steering wheel. Good job devs!

Hank, real men don't use hands, they use... other lengthy appendages