Quote from UncleBenny :

hey if you've got some free bandwidth, do you think you could ping bob for the results of those tests he was running?

Right then,

I've pinged him.

The answer is "pong"

Quote from pom456 :

...

to all ai haters
if you don't agree with Dev's decision, why don't you create your own game...

...

You don't need to code your own sim to be able to give criticism about LFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The only change is the hotlap records get removed. The MRT will still be there. The LX6 will still be there. The BF1 will still be there.

With rF2, 99% of the cars in the game won't be there, and would have to be made again, probably from scratch (apart from 3D models, but even then they might need a lot of work with a new engine).

LFS doesn't have magical powers, but the lack of modding means we don't lose out with new versions, it's only a gain.

Another strange argument of defending LFS against modding?

Will Kegetys' Mclaren work with next patch? No, it needs to be updated to work, just like it will probably be with rf and all LFS cars. Although LFS' system is more automated it doesn't mean that some updating needs to be done manually to keep the stuff working. In case of both rf and LFS the authors and creators of their stuff need to do the updates and then release the patches. In LFS the devs do it because it is their content, in rf the modding community needs to do the updates because it is their content. Again, the whole compatibility thing is a moot point because LFS and rf are so different. LFS is non-moddable while rf breathes and lives from modding.

The whole rf versus LFS thing with this backwards compatibility thing is like comparing apples to oranges.

How did rf get into this discussion anyways?

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I never expected (decent) AI from LFS, because it is an online racing simulator. It doesn't mean that I don't like ai - I just think that AI is not important part of online racing sim.

LFS is the first racing sim that i have played more than a year.. ( Nascar 03 i did one year ) almost every time im free from work i start up the computer and play LFS. and that for almost 3 years. i think they can be prowd of what they have created! good handeling, online, updates. And they do it with only 3 persons!! Codemasters, Simbin learn from them

I think its good to upgrade the AI. sometimes i play offline and just drive 5 sec a lap faster than the AI. and its boring that they cannot Pit.

but something else, further back in this topic i read something about kartsim.. does anyone know something new about this sim? the website is never updated and i never read something about it anymore.

grtz
Hendrik

Quote from henrico-20- :

but something else, further back in this topic i read something about kartsim.. does anyone know something new about this sim? the website is never updated and i never read something about it anymore.

We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you !


To cut a long story short: Karts have been tested in early versions of LFS, but for various reasons were never released to us lot. So, the likelihood is at some stage in the future they will be part of LFS but don't hold your breath. (and don't trust a word i say, i know nothing )

Quote from PioneerLv :

I am a bit scared about LFS progress.
About 2,5 months without no new updates and features. LFS devolpment can't be stopped!

I really don't want to say thet but: Live For Speed is dying a slow death?

^
That sentence really scares me!

Any explains?

Dying ??

Absolutely not, mate

I see Lfs as great, great value for my money, and I keep getting even more value for my "bucks", now and then. I also wants something new, but unlike you, I really like the tempo that they make the progress in, in Lfs. I can cope with it. The worst times is when they announce a new path, and you expect it on a certain day That`s nerve wrecking business

Lfs is very, very driveable as is ! And it is getting better in the future !!

I have driven the demo, and then bougth the s1 version. then all the other patches and s2 version That`s a privelege, to follow the birth, youth and the entrance into the "grownups" world. What other games offers you that, and have the same quality as Lfs.

Patience my friend - Patience

Quote from Mazz4200 :

don't trust a word i say.

_______________________________________________

i know nothing

how do i know i can trust that you know nothing?!

Im still quite happy with LFS as it is..... mainly because its still an alpha game if thats at all allowed in this argument... Content will come... paitence is needed.

Quote :

i read something about kartsim.. does anyone know something new about this sim? the website is never updated and i never read something about it anymore.

Why waste your time with that, when the new Hamster Video Game has just been released?

edit: and coming this summer...

I don't know how come the WR holders never wine about the updates... or other people who race alot.. hmmm, maybe because they actually PLAY the game instead of whining here on the forums...

Try to break a WR or just get close to one, and you will see how little you actually know about LFS and how you just scratched the surface...

Quote from franky500 :

how do i know i can trust that you know nothing?!

"The only way to make a man trustworthy is to trust him"

Quote from Mazz4200 :

"The only way to make a man trustworthy is to trust him"

I could trust many men, my debt`s - But trust many men my money or my girlfriends - NO WAY !

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

You would know this if you were not so concerned with your sex wee.

Much like Vegas, what's discussed in a closed thread, stays in a closed thread.....

Hehehehe

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I don't know how come the WR holders never wine about the updates... or other people who race alot.. hmmm, maybe because they actually PLAY the game instead of whining here on the forums...

Try to break a WR or just get close to one, and you will see how little you actually know about LFS and how you just scratched the surface...

The flip side to that is this: why bother learning to master something that's going to change in the next patch likely anyway? That's just a source of frustration.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

The flip side to that is this: why bother learning to master something that's going to change in the next patch likely anyway? That's just a source of frustration.

Umm.. that would be a frustration if physics patch changed every two months or so.. but the real case is more like every year or rarely (which is good, better more rarely and make it good, than more often)... so your point is lame really...

I'm just saying.. the people who are bored of this content are just not real racers and not perfectionists.. (it's the same kind of people who needs a new track for rF every 2nd day, or they will cry)..
You don't need content to have fun, as i said many times, i could play BL with the XFG for years, and i can't get bored of it..
Just try to perfect yourself and improve yourself and you will see that there is plenty of content here, more then plenty..

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

The flip side to that is this: why bother learning to master something that's going to change in the next patch likely anyway? That's just a source of frustration.

i thought its also a challenge and part of hotlapping to master the frustration (no matter what). Have a look at the last major updates and see how much time is lying inbetween. Besides, things always getting better so why bother?

@ Boris: i cant blame the people that want some more content since its been a while but since LFS is different in many aspects, people should know what they have payed for and be more patient (just in case they EVER read the small print). So if "people" get bored they should go and play other games and stop demanding things they'll (most probably) never get (in time). Speaking about it, i get the impression that some people have got a problem to make a difference between a demand and a suggestion but maybe thats just me hallucinating.

Just to be clear, I don't care about content because I agree with you on that point. More would be better, but I'm not hung up on tracks or cars at all. I am bored of not having to worry about braking issues, engine damage, better suspension damage, engine temps / rad damage, locked diffs and other stupid setup issues, poor longitudinal slip behaviour, incomplete aero and so forth. Those things would revolutionize the content we already have, and the racing experience. There are not enough things to worry about compared to real racing. I would rather play the XFG at BL1 with those things, and rather have consequences for curb hopping, rear stabbing, wall banging kamikaze "racers" with 5 balls unlike now where too much goes unpunished. I should have to worry about brakes during MoE. You can always obsess over one single thing in any circumstance, that doesn't just apply to LFS. Shotglass' fabulous quote comes to mind right about now

My point wasn't and isn't lame, it's in fact a waste of time to try and master tire physics that still aren't done, simply by definition - especially with a locked differential all the time.

well said BBT but something about your point, we are speaking about perfectionism and in that case, people should start playing or hotlapping (you name it) when the game is done, like in a couple of years or so?

I cant imagine you had that in mind. In our situation we can only make suggestions and wait for improvements, until things changes we have to make the best out of it and without us "the betha tester clientage" some (major) issues would most probably take longer to discover or never would be. I agree that doing this makes no sense at one side but on the other side it certainly does (if you know what i mean).

/confused...ehh..
/end

Yes I know what you mean and of course you're correct. I guess all I am saying is that the counterpoint to what I said is neutral because putting in effort to master LFS is a double edged sword. Tire physics are fundamental of course.

Quote from mrodgers :

Folks are seeming to fail to remember, or know at all, what the differences between S1 and S2 are. As released versions, there were huge differences. New content added to the old content. Both a physics and graphics update. New features such as tire wear and heat and pitstops. Now think of it as the differences between S1 and S2 licensing? What do the S2 users have that the S1 users don't have? Content and only content. They still got the physics, graphics, and feature changes.

I'm speculating that this will be the same with S3. The S1 and S2 licensed users will get any and all physics and graphical improvements, causing no problems with compatibility. They just won't get the content. By content, I am also specualting that stuff like rain, wet track, debri and/or dirt on the track, etc will be like the content that Aston, Kyoto, GTRs, LFRs were to S1 vs S2.

They won't be backwards compatible simply because there will be no backwards. Just as when S2 was released, the lower licensed users will have access to the same physics/graphics/other that the S3 users will, except for the content.

Ahh but as Tristan says, he's talking about rF2, not rF 1.whatever. So when I grab a .vob file from S2 and drop it into LFS2-S1, it'll work, right? I mean, we're talking about different releases, not patch versions.

You seem to be forgetting here that S1, S2 and S3 aren't different major versions, just patches of the same major version, so you'd damn well hope things would be compatible.

Quote :

The LFS devs are the ones who will make the current content compatible with the new version. The rFactor devs have nothing to do with the content in their sim. Thus, nothing will be compatible.

What planet are you living on? ISI released content with their game and have subsequently released extras too (tracks and cars).. which as I said to the silver-spoon-in-mouth Tristan above, will probably work just fine in rF2 as ISI will, like Scawen, make sure that their _own_ content is updated to be compatible.

It's also patently obvious you fail, just as Tristan does, to understand the actual concept behind rF. It was designed from the word go to be a modding platform, something more akin to an SDK I guess rather than a "here's 25 cars and here's 5 tracks with 10000000 combos because we couldn't be arsed to build separate tracks".

This forum is a great source of comedy.. probably the only reason I visit here any more.. just can't get over how naive some people are and find it quite amusing.



Regards,

Ian

LFS going wrong... thats for sure for me

And everyone's a comedian right ?

Anyway, i hear you Ian, but for what reason other then nostalga would you want things to be perfectly backwards compable, myself the main hope i would have this is for replays, memories of times gone by etc. (handy but nothing multiple installs cant handle)

Things are always evolving and there are not many games out there that are not broken by updates. Perfection is unatainable, but chasing that goal isnt. LFS has been for me one of very few games to hold my attention and capture my imagination and spirit. This is somthing so glaringly obvious with the opinions weighing in on each round "who is right is wrong" thats how sometimes these discussions end.

I am that sad individual that likes to hope, that people have the rational and capabilty to see what the bigger picture is, and sometimes sense prevails, but yes this place can be quite a comedy of judgment and opinion, but also a place to make sense of LFS. People want things done yesterday, we want control, we analyse everything, scruitinising every aspect of each others opinion. Its alot easier to critise everyones fault in logic or belief or capability, then it is to usher kindness, direction, help or assistance.

back on topic (sorry)
I really hate to end a post on a cliche

"good things come to those that wait"

No one should have to master the game to give criticism of ask for new content. At the end of the day people play this game to have FUN. if you feel that a new track would increase the amount of fun you would have, its a valid request.

FYI: "new" not "knew".

Just because someone, utterly subjectively and selfishly, thinks a new toy will make them happy it doesn't immediately make it a valid request.

The validity of any request is proportional to the probability that its fulfilment won't adversely affect the fulfilment of any other valid requests (think about that next time you're praying to some sky-god ). In other words, if you ask for a new track you should think about the time and effort it would take to create that track, then weigh that against the repeated and numerous requests for things many people find more important such as better aero, better tyre modelling, improved physics (and every other sodding thing in the Improvement Suggestions Log sticky which noone ever reads).

For the record, a stable of new cars and a continent of new tracks wouldn't please me as there are so many aspects of LFS's core, the actual driving, that need to be addressed before I could enjoy those things fully. But if the devs decide other things are more important (like SUVS :vomit I'll have to wait and deal with it. I won't sulk that my valid request has been ignored.

Hi Al..

Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

And everyone's a comedian right ?

Anyway, i hear you Ian, but for what reason other then nostalga would you want things to be perfectly backwards compable, myself the main hope i would have this is for replays, memories of times gone by etc. (handy but nothing multiple installs cant handle)

I don't really, well, I haven't really thought about it too much tbh.. just commented on what Tristan was blurting out about backwards compatibility. Sure, if I'd spent 2 years building a track for rF (would much prefer to talk about building tracks for LFS, but I don't think that'll be happening in my or my kid's lifetime), I'd be pretty frustrated to find that to get it into the new incarnation, would mean a complete rebuild. ISI would be shooting themselves in the foot however if they made rF2 so different to rF, that it'd be easier to convert something from m$ flightsim to rF than update rF1->rF2.

Personally, I don't really care too much as I certainly won't be sending any more money in ISI's direction. They're a comedy outfit.. and completely full of shit!

Quote :

Things are always evolving and there are not many games out there that are not broken by updates.

Agreed! I certainly wouldn't expect .vob files (using as an example) from S1, S2 or S3 to drop into LFS2 (if there was ever to be such a thing). Just that Tristan here seems to think the sun shines from LFS' virtual arse and that it's all but perfect in every sense.

Quote :

Perfection is unatainable, but chasing that goal isnt.

That's something I can definitely understand. I'm always chasing perfection, but know I'll never reach it.. but if by doing so, I get close, that's the next best thing I guess... until I start chasing again and it gets a little better.

Quote :

LFS has been for me one of very few games to hold my attention and capture my imagination and spirit. This is somthing so glaringly obvious with the opinions weighing in on each round "who is right is wrong" thats how sometimes these discussions end.

It did for me for a long time too back in S1 days. Day in, day out I played it, for the best part of 12 months or so. Then S2 was released and it was a disappointment IMO (compared to the initial impact of S1, yet with the updates that came, it should have been "fsckin a!!" all over again, but I never had that feeling hence I've driven very little in S2).

As you know, I even took a 2 year break from LFS to start trying to learn what was involved in the modding "scene" for rF. 2 years later, I come back to try LFS again and as this thread title says, there was nothing new.. same old cars, same old dull track combos.. it became a chore to have even a slightest of interests. I have my reasons for trying to stick it out, but it's becoming increasingly more and more difficult to keep an interest in it due to lack of progress. I understand the limited dev team size etc hinders a more rapid progress, but with the availability of competing products, if progress continues at the current rate, IMO, I think the only people that'll be left around for S3 will be people like Tristan, blinkered fanbois (or maybe my great grandkids who happen to find the site while browsing the 'net.).

Quote :

I am that sad individual that likes to hope, that people have the rational and capabilty to see what the bigger picture is, and sometimes sense prevails, but yes this place can be quite a comedy of judgment and opinion, but also a place to make sense of LFS. People want things done yesterday, we want control, we analyse everything, scruitinising every aspect of each others opinion. Its alot easier to critise everyones fault in logic or belief or capability, then it is to usher kindness, direction, help or assistance.

back on topic (sorry)
I really hate to end a post on a cliche

"good things come to those that wait"

I can be impatient at times, but S2 is _really_ dragging its heels. There's just not enough variation in the game for me anymore. I'd far sooner 10 _different_ tracks, than 100 regurgitated combos of each other.. and preferably ones with some life in them, not the perfectly flat incarnations currently available with the only apparent bumps being where the mesh sections don't quite meet properly.

And before people say "you haven't driven this car / track combo" or "so your PB is the current WR for this car / track combo?"... you don't have to be a WR holder to enjoy playing a game. I couldn't give a flying fsck whether I win, lose or draw in a race, it's what happens between the the green light and chequered flag that is what makes something fun for me. I don't need / want 1000s of tracks (I think in rF, I only have about 30).. I want a few quality tracks with variation.. something LFS' lack to me unfortunately.. too samey samey and a distinct lack of chasing for perfection that you mention above.

I've tried to see the bigger picture, and would like to have a more positive opinion, but alas.. there isn't much inspiration to think otherwise (for me anyway). That said, the updated AI will be _VERY_ welcome as my littlen enjoys a good blast against them.. but does get frustrated with their currently lack of intelligence and strengths. If they're like they were in S1 days, then great!

Indeed the best things come to those who wait... but at this current rate, I'll be 6' under and still waiting.



Regards,

Ian

i said the request is valid, didn't say it should jump to the top of the priority. At this point asking for anything reasonable, is valid, where it lands in terms of priority is another discussion.

Quote from Ian.H :

but at this current rate, I'll be 6' under and still waiting.

We can but hope