I missed that, thanks Michael.

Quote from ShannonN :

Wow how many shares did you say you had in this guys company? Or did he just make you head of his fan club and give you a gift certificate for a free lap at some stage?

Hmmm, even putting a smiley at the end of that, doesn't make it even remotely funny.
Point was, Tristian was out of line or maybe he was trying to be sarcastic too? Either way, srdsprinter was spot on in his comments. It doesn't take a fanboy for that; it just takes somebody who knows what he is talking about.

Quote from ShannonN :

Wow how many shares did you say you had in this guys company?

Right, he's an independant consulting engineer, and his company(random research) is, as far as I know, a one man show. Alas, no publically traded stocks.

Quote from ShannonN :

Or did he just make you head of his fan club

I wasn't aware he had a fan club. I doubt that I would be any good at managing said club, I sadly haven't kept up with my own team (Land of the Free).

Quote from ShannonN :

give you a gift certificate for a free lap at some stage?

Again, I'm afraid not. I would love to get a chance to drive something like his dp1 someday, but starting out as a Mechanical Engineer doesn't quite warrant the funds to procure a $125k trackday only vehicle. I am however interested in a getting a new car that could be used for my short daily commute and taken to a local track when the opportunity arises. As it happens DP has owned/built several of the same vehicles I have considered and am still considering.

As a young Car/Racing/Driving Enthusiast, I have followed DP's cars and trackdays online for a while. It's interesting stuff to me. When another forum member prematurely criticized his driving(IMO), without taking any time to read about the car or the driver's extensive backgrounds, it upset me.

edit: I thought the comments looked badly on our forum as a whole. It could appear a video gamer attacking someones real life driving. LFS has a lot to offer, much more than the average video game, and I would hate if someone hoping to bring something new to us was put off because of a misconception, see below.

Granted, said forum member does have legitimate real racing experience, but it is in a totally different form of vehicle. I felt the comments had no backing or place belonging in the thread. My response was intended to tell a little bit of DP's background out, and to share that with all the community. DP is true enthusiast, and he's out there doing for real what a lot of us don't yet have the opportunity to, except in LFS.

It is a infrequent occurence when something really good comes from these forums, and I feel this could be one of those rare occasions.

Quote from ShannonN :

I concur.

Reid

Quote from srdsprinter :

It's interesting stuff to me. When another forum member prematurely criticized his driving(IMO), without taking any time to read about the car or the driver's extensive backgrounds, it upset me. Granted, said forum member does have legitimate real racing experience, but it is in a totally different form of vehicle. I felt the comments had no backing or place belonging in the thread. My response was intended to tell a little bit of DP's background out, and to share that with all the community. DP is true enthusiast, and he's out there doing for real what a lot of us don't yet have the opportunity to, except in LFS.

It is a infrequent occurence when something really good comes from these forums, and I feel this could be one of those rare occasions.

It is indeed interesting stuff, and it is indeed a 'good thing'. But my comments on his driving were my opinion, just like yours are your opinion. Maybe I don't know all the facts, but I still feel that those videos don't show a lot of natural driving talent. Maybe he was having an off day. Maybe he's normally very good but the car was being a handful (didn't look it though).

I respect that you (and quite probably he) thinks differently. Perhaps my opinion is because the vehicles I drive on track are rather different (I've yet to drive my own carbon fibre mid-engined 4WD monster). But my comments don't actively harm anyone, they are just my opinion.

Anyway, regardless of whether you, he or I are any good at driving, I think this car would be a nice addition to LFS - it's quite different to anything else in LFS, and that is more interesting than adding another FXO clone or bewinged formula car. I'm not holding my breath in terms of time though - it'll be a while before we get to see it in LFS even if work starts now.

Thanks for the response. I hope you realize I really wasn't trying to attack you, but I thought your post wasn't the best. If the thread was "Look at this guys Incredible Driving" I would agree, it wouldn't exactly be highlighting any driving skills.



Subconsciously, I had just watched the "Top Gear" America Special. They spent the entire hour bashing the US with nothing but played out stereotypes and jokes, in a heavily edited/scripted film. What really eerked me was that all three presenters end up really loving their PoS American cars, then come back to the studio to bash the US at the end. Just seemed unnessesarily ultra anti-America, in what is usually a top notch show. I certainly meant it as no offense to any non-Americans, but I was in a bit of a bad mood.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Subconsciously, I had just watched the "Top Gear" America Special. They spent the entire hour bashing the US with nothing but played out stereotypes and jokes, in a heavily edited/scripted film. What really eerked me was that all three presenters end up really loving their PoS American cars, then come back to the studio to bash the US at the end. Just seemed unnessesarily ultra anti-America, in what is usually a top notch show. I certainly meant it as no offense to any non-Americans, but I was in a bit of a bad mood.

i run into this occasionally as well - pretty ironic since we're really all europeans here, the REAL americans live on reservations. spain, france and england get full and exclusive credit for that.

i also run into people who jump to criticizing my driving based on the videos - some get into outright hysteria on the subject. their problem and their loss. first thing, my site exists to share my experiences (good and bad), not to make myself look good. i post videos when there is something of interest to share and typically that means something out of the norm. so it should not be a surprise to see mistakes in them.

yep, i do make mistakes. i'm not a 'natural talent' at driving but through a lot of practice and perseverance i've become fairly good at it. this is not boasting, just an objective evaluation based on lap times, comparing myself with other drivers, and opinions of experienced racers who have actually ridden with me on the track. i still have lots to learn and am in fact always learning. i expect (and hope) this will continue for some time. by the same token i have already learned a great deal and am only too happy to share this with anyone who is interested. driving is not magic, it's a skill that can be taught to a high level of competence (but brilliance does require talent, like with anything else). for example, all my students at trackdays are visibly better drivers after a day of my instruction and that's gratifying to me.

likewise i'm always happy to give rides at trackdays - no certificate needed definitely in the mini at least - the atom will depend on insurance but that's just the harsh reality of it. and, on the subjec of reality, if anyone wants to DRIVE the dp1 in real life unfortunately i will require a 50% cash deposit (refundable). considering the performance potential anything less would be foolish on my part

and finally, i'm not aware of having a fan club. but there is a guy who's been stalking me for about four years, prying into details of my personal life and discussing them on various forums. does that count? he's a vocal critic of my driving technique too

Quote :

then come back to the studio to bash the US at the end.

It's humour.

Quote from Breizh :

It's humour.

Maybe to a degree. Did you see it? It was a pretty sad attempt at humor for three guys who usually are quite good at it.

Quote from dpcars :

and finally, i'm not aware of having a fan club. but there is a guy who's been stalking me for about four years, prying into details of my personal life and discussing them on various forums. does that count? he's a vocal critic of my driving technique too

Haha. It's not you, it's the car he wants

j/k

Quote from Breizh :

It's humour.

surely there must be things funnier than bashing how other people choose to live (or drive)? unless it's a sorry attempt to make themselves feel better

I saw it... it's just a sort of humour that is almost non existant in america.
You're just another casualty to the long history of culture shock

Quote from Hyperactive :

Haha. It's not you, it's the car he wants

j/k

i wish it were true - then he'd write me a check instead of being an annoying pest

And no, it's not about self esteem. Do they look sorry to you? It's just a joke..
Another example would be the sort of morbid and/or deadpan humour you find in the army... You can subtitle it as not funny, or "sorry attempt to [...]", but that's just taking things out of context.

Anyway, best of luck with your project (it kicks ass ). I hope we get to drive it some day.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Subconsciously, I had just watched the "Top Gear" America Special. They spent the entire hour bashing the US with nothing but played out stereotypes and jokes, in a heavily edited/scripted film. What really eerked me was that all three presenters end up really loving their PoS American cars, then come back to the studio to bash the US at the end. Just seemed unnessesarily ultra anti-America, in what is usually a top notch show. I certainly meant it as no offense to any non-Americans, but I was in a bit of a bad mood.

Think you maybe missed that it's all tongue in cheek humour, as is the majority of Top Gear.

i generally like the top gear stuff - certainly refreshing at times if by nothing else than their general irreverence. that's why stereotype humor is a bit disappointing coming from them, but whatever. personally i i'm not generally offended by humor at others' expense, regardless of context - just makes me wonder why people say what they do and what that tells me about them

and no i'm not claiming moral superiority here by any means - have certainly said and done my share of questionable things over the years

it's all in good fun and i'm cool with that. it's just sometimes amusing to take a step back and look at the why....

Quote from ajp71 :

Think you maybe missed that it's all tongue in cheek humour, as is the majority of Top Gear.

I understand that. It just got old, an hour straight of it.

I've got no problem with the usual one-liners or when the find justified problems with American cars.

I honestly believe they've started to feel the pinch lately by the anti-speed wackos over there. There seems to be more and more of the caravaning, spaceshuttle, american holiday, tractor, and what not. Shame if its true, as the comparisons between the GT3 and 360CS, the Evo400FQ vs Murceilago,come to mind, as they really showcase the cinematography and production values that make TG special.

to DP, I believe you've quoted some downfore/drag figures from mulsannescorner.com (sp...) in comparisons to the dp1's projected values.
IIRC you (simulated) approach the df/drag ratios of some Group C le mans prototypes.

I'm curious if you've ever seen any figures from the early/mid (?) 80's F1 cars back when the venturi underbodies were in full effect? Obviously tires were lacking from where they are today, but there were fears about the drivers necks compressing under bumps and also possibly the need to implement g suits. The rules were then changed. I was just interested if those were somewhat comparable to the le mans prototypes in terms of df. If it wasn't you using that site, then

Quote from srdsprinter :

to DP, I believe you've quoted some downfore/drag figures from mulsannescorner.com (sp...) in comparisons to the dp1's projected values.
IIRC you (simulated) approach the df/drag ratios of some Group C le mans prototypes.

I'm curious if you've ever seen any figures from the early/mid (?) 80's F1 cars back when the venturi underbodies were in full effect? Obviously tires were lacking from where they are today, but there were fears about the drivers necks compressing under bumps and also possibly the need to implement g suits. The rules were then changed. I was just interested if those were somewhat comparable to the le mans prototypes in terms of df. If it wasn't you using that site, then

yep, the site is http://www.mulsannescorner.com/ and is a very cool compilaton of data, pictures and articles. a recommended and interesting read for the tech geeks among us. as with anything it should be taken as a refence but not necessarily the definitive source - for example the vortex generator expert that i've been talking to had some interesting comments on their article on vortex lift (no, don't ask).

some of the best LMP designs approach 5:1 L/D which i have no hope of achieving within my design goals (streetable rideheight, sane spring rates and no visible wings). i would be quite pleased with 1:1 and that looks achievable. anything better than that is a bonus. keep in mind i'm primarily building a trackday car, not not an outright racer (although the only thing stopping someone from racing it would be various rules and regulations).

one of the dangers of high downforce is that it's dependent on everything being just right and if for some reason that goes away even for a fraction of a second, the car can go from 4g cornering capability to under 2g in an instant. tough luck if you're in a 3.5g corner at the time. or you can get the flying mercedes at le mans.

my design goal is build a car that's outrageous but still reasonably accessible to a non-professonal driver (yes, those of us who are not natural talents but enjoy driving anyway ). this means emphasizing mechanical grip over aero and low-speed performance over high-speed perfomance. i don't care about going 200 mph because you will never see that at a trackday no matter what you're driving. i was hitting 175 on my yamaha r1 and that made me sell it - way too much for me to handle. 150 is about all i'd want in a trackday (ok, the dp1 will have a top speed of about 170 but i doubt it'd see more than 150 at most tracks).

likewise, i'm getting 1.7g mechanical cornering (hopefully more to come) and it already is a huge leap of faith for most drivers (myself included) to go charging into a corner at those speeds. if the car were capable of 3 g due to downforce in reality that would never get used. so my primary goal with aerodynamics is stability and prevention of lift. drag is also not that bad a thing as long as you've got the power - it helps braking.

Quote from srdsprinter :

I honestly believe they've started to feel the pinch lately by the anti-speed wackos over there. There seems to be more and more of the caravaning, spaceshuttle, american holiday, tractor, and what not. Shame if its true, as the comparisons between the GT3 and 360CS, the Evo400FQ vs Murceilago,come to mind, as they really showcase the cinematography and production values that make TG special.

What makes TG brilliant is the fact it is first and foremost an entertainment show, it's not serious telly so don't expect it to be it does overstep the line at some points, the Discovery up the mountain was totally out of order and TBH they deserved the crap they got for that, shame really seeing as it just gives blanket anti-everything protesters going after TG. I can understand how you grew tired of being laughed at but TBH if you don't reckon TG usually uses loads of stereotype humour you probably haven't understood a lot of the jokes from a British viewpoint.

As for the lack of serious bits I feel the last couple have got the balance right, the Reliant Robin spaceship was awesome (everyone I've spoken to also expected it to just be a typical farce with a big bang but they got so close ). Some semi-seriousness and nice camera work is nice to see but I like the kind of twists they usually find.

I love how TG can entertain hardened petrol heads and result in lengthy discussion as much as it can people who don't know how many wheels a car has, something that other programs like Fifth Gear and Driven have historically spectacularly failed to do.

ok, just got my S2 license. had to get a new driver for my graphics card but that was fairly straightforward. just checked out the training stuff with the mouse and keyboard - i must say the sim is VERY impressive. so i went and ordered the logitech G25 wheel/pedals. can't wait for those to show up!

And I'd just like to be the first to say good for you You're gonna enjoy it, just make sure DP1 progress doesn't come to a grinding halt

Quote from dpcars :

ok, just got my S2 license. had to get a new driver for my graphics card but that was fairly straightforward. just checked out the training stuff with the mouse and keyboard - i must say the sim is VERY impressive. so i went and ordered the logitech G25 wheel/pedals. can't wait for those to show up!

Wow, certainly a man with a masterplan Welcome to S2

Quote from 96 GTS :

And I'd just like to be the first to say good for you You're gonna enjoy it, just make sure DP1 progress doesn't come to a grinding halt

thanks. that's always the danger isn't it

i shall endeavor to move forward. have plenty of motivation.

Quote from dpcars :

thanks. that's always the danger isn't it

i shall endeavor to move forward. have plenty of motivation.

there goes the neighborhood.... lol, i just got my G25 yesterday.

Its awesome, but I'm way to used to left foot braking with the old momo racing (no H-shifter or clutch). So if you (anyone) see me going incredibly slow out there, its just me teaching my feet the new dance.

You're one of us now Dennis.

OT I know but I feel top gear has lost its way a little... I like the stunts, but they are taking up more and more time from the show. And I really think the interviews are just too long and too boring with non entiety celebs (well the occasional good one). They need to go back to driving stupidly fast cars, and doing road tests with all 3 of them in some random part of the country, always enjoy them bits.

As for getting s2.... Hope to see you online :P and see how fast your "unnatural" driving is