omg... i want this car in LFS lol

it sounds funny too, the transmission makes it sound like an R/C car, but nonetheless... would bring in some really tight (both senses) racing in LFS

Quote from ajp71 :

Maybe I'm missing something but assuming the driveshaft has infinite torsional strength then it shouldn't matter where the braking force is applied? I guess it must be something to do with the driveshaft twisting but as far as I can see that would only result in the wheel end taking longer to slow down than where the braking force is applied.

Well I just thought it was like how its easier to unscrew with a longer screwdriver. I'm the one who's missing something, lol

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

yes they have, and yes they are willing to provide all support neccisary.

they have cfd data available ?
in that case i hope scawen will go ahead with it since it will surely help him with getting his head around aero physics

and maybe the odd placement of the brakes might lead to the inclusion of drivetrain flex

Quote from ajp71 :

Maybe I'm missing something but assuming the driveshaft has infinite torsional strength then it shouldn't matter where the braking force is applied? I guess it must be something to do with the driveshaft twisting but as far as I can see that would only result in the wheel end taking longer to slow down than where the braking force is applied.

ill take a wild guess here ... maybe the lack of any flexibility between the diff and the brakes causes some weird behaviour
then again maybe the diff simply is rubbish ... no idea really

+1

Must be really funy

greetings! i'm glad to see there is interest in having the car in the sim. i think it would be a lot of fun if the devs decide to go for it. for my part, i'm willing to supply the necessary data to make the job as easy as possible.

to answer the question about braking - the prototype has one disc front and one rear, each acting on a torque-biasing quaife diff. that sounded good in theory (applying brake torque to the wheel with most traction) but in practice braking tends to lock the diffs and the car wants to go straight, until you release the brakes... so yeah, trailbraking is interesting in the production version there will be a separate brake rotor acting on each halfshaft, so pretty standard setup except all the rotors are inboard. halfshafts do have some flexibility to them though, my calcs show that at 1.5g braking the front shafts will have about 12 degrees of twist.

there is definitely downforce, all of it coming from the underbody. prototype has a pretty mild setup, the production car will be more aggressive and fully adjustable. im shooting for about 120-140 lbs at 80 mph, which will make it around 400-500 lbs at 160.

from driving the prototype so far, it's a fun a/x car but it is equally at home on big tracks. PIR is a 2-mile track and just putt-putting around a clear lap was 1:29 which makes the average speed 80mph (peak 122 so far), and that was only the 10th big-track lap for the car ever. prototype should be able to run sub 1:20 (that's my goal for spring). the production v8 should be able to qualify about mid-grid for LMP1 based on the calcs so far - given the right nut behind the wheel! i'm not saying that i'll be able to do that myself. but of course that's all just theory

i'd be very curious to see how the car behaves in the sim. the awd system is a proprietary setup which i hope can be modeled accurately, it will allow some degree of rear wheel slip. the prototype is very steerable on the throttle.

dennis

that puts some issues to rest, and raises a question ive had.

In the production model, for the LMP1 class, will it have the same sort of wing arrangement as the other cars in the class or will you still rely solely on the undertray? Cars in that class have wings for a reason, though i would LOVE to see one without competing mid or even forward grid.

Even more exciting though (for some of us in the sim racing world) is the prospect of having a prototype class car for endurance races. True Multi-class racing is what made the Kyoto 24 hour in april of 2006 so exciting for me, sharing the track with both faster and slower cars and teams. (Yes, even though my FXO GTR was totalled several times, hooray for 4wd and limping back to the pits).

Owen

PS Hey Dennis, I'm about thiiiiiis close to declaring you an honorary ZWR member j/k

you have to keep in mind that actual LMP cars (and pretty much every other racing class) are controlled by RULES. the rules specify a flat floor and a whole lot of other things, so they have to have wings both for downforce and tuning of front/rear aero balance. dp1 is intended to write the rules, not follow them for a great number of reasons the dp1 will never actually compete in LMP - it just isn't designed to. but i do intend to take it to some of the same tracks and see how the lap times stack up (of course if it doesn't work then nobody would care for the rules i write, but that's the risk in any new design). in the production version there are actually two wings, in addition to the main undetray - you just can't see them because they're under the bodywork. it's a different way to go about things. whether or not it's better, time will tell.

Quote from dpcars :

you have to keep in mind that actual LMP cars (and pretty much every other racing class) are controlled by RULES. the rules specify a flat floor and a whole lot of other things, so they have to have wings both for downforce and tuning of front/rear aero balance. dp1 is intended to write the rules, not follow them for a great number of reasons the dp1 will never actually compete in LMP - it just isn't designed to. but i do intend to take it to some of the same tracks and see how the lap times stack up (of course if it doesn't work then nobody would care for the rules i write, but that's the risk in any new design). in the production version there are actually two wings, in addition to the main undetray - you just can't see them because they're under the bodywork. it's a different way to go about things. whether or not it's better, time will tell.

Welcome welcome!

I have no real questions, but merely have you played LFS yet?

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Well I just thought it was like how its easier to unscrew with a longer screwdriver. I'm the one who's missing something, lol

It's not easier to unscrew with a longer screwdriver.....

It's easier to pry with a long one, and easier to unscrew with a thicker handled one. It's all about torque

Oh, and I should say, this car looks awesome!!!!!

nope, not yet

if i didnt need to pay a deposit on my next apartment i would just buy you a liscence out of pocket

Welcome! I'm glad to see the interest you've shown in having your car represented in LFS and I hope to see it in there soon. I also hope to see you on the tracks of LFS in the near future!

EDIT: Should you guys be making all this personal communication with the devs public? I wouldn't... if they wanted to, they would indeed post here and tell us what they want us to know. EDIT2: I see the post has been removed now (just thought I'd add that so people don't get confused).

Quote from dpcars :

to answer the question about braking - the prototype has one disc front and one rear, each acting on a torque-biasing quaife diff. that sounded good in theory (applying brake torque to the wheel with most traction) but in practice braking tends to lock the diffs and the car wants to go straight, until you release the brakes... so yeah, trailbraking is interesting in the production version there will be a separate brake rotor acting on each halfshaft, so pretty standard setup except all the rotors are inboard. halfshafts do have some flexibility to them though, my calcs show that at 1.5g braking the front shafts will have about 12 degrees of twist.

That explains a lot then. I had assumed the prototype had used conventional inboard brakes like the later development drawings showed.

anyone who has built the dp1 in lfstweak, yet?

Quote from dpcars :

you have to keep in mind that actual LMP cars (and pretty much every other racing class) are controlled by RULES. the rules specify a flat floor and a whole lot of other things, so they have to have wings both for downforce and tuning of front/rear aero balance. dp1 is intended to write the rules, not follow them for a great number of reasons the dp1 will never actually compete in LMP - it just isn't designed to. but i do intend to take it to some of the same tracks and see how the lap times stack up (of course if it doesn't work then nobody would care for the rules i write, but that's the risk in any new design). in the production version there are actually two wings, in addition to the main undetray - you just can't see them because they're under the bodywork. it's a different way to go about things. whether or not it's better, time will tell.

genious really, wings under the bodywork would be (one would think) far less affected by dirty air.

If he's this smart we should ahve him figure out how to balance the gtr class j/k


ORION, too bad we cant do it in tweakV yet, no weight variable, no gear count variable, and no downforce adjustments

Quote from ORION :

anyone who has built the dp1 in lfstweak, yet?

It's possible to get a 4WD high power, lightened LX6 which apart from weight distribution and lack of downforce should be pretty similar if you know how (sorry I won't say so don't ask). The resulting car is very very fast whilst retaining plenty of throttle controlling and when you get it right incredible acceleration.

Quote from dpcars :

greetings!

Hi, thanks for stopping by Dennis and giving us some insight on your car and your future plans with it
If our hopes of a simulated DP1 come true, I would be very interested in your feedback about the simulated version. I think it could really benefit the development of the sim. But we will just have to wait and see
My compliments on your project, it's really interesting not to mention very impressive

its off topic as all hell, but you cant edit anything other than the demo cars with tweak V

if you figure out how though...

Quote from joen :

Hi, thanks for stopping by Dennis and giving us some insight on your car and your future plans with it
If our hopes of a simulated DP1 come true, I would be very interested in your feedback about the simulated version. I think it could really benefit the development of the sim. But we will just have to wait and see
My compliments on your project, it's really interesting not to mention very impressive

He would have to play! Someone grab him a license. I'm poor.

Quote from dpcars :

the rules specify a flat floor and a whole lot of other things,

Actually, the floors of LMPs are anything but flat. The have a chamfered section between the front and rear wheels (that's why the new LMPs look like they have such a tall ride height. The car is still sitting low, but the sides of the floor are raised). Plus, there is the raised splitter section, front and rear diffusers, and a tunnel section. I think the DP1 actually has a flatter floor than an 07 rules spec LMP.

If the planets align and by some strange cosmic happening I come into some money in the not to distant future, you will be receiving a cheque from myself for my own DP1. I want one to call my own

Just an odd question - is the DP1 road legal? I doubt it is, but if the Ariel Atom and Maserati MC Hammer are ...

EDIT : It has no rear lights as yet - but surely how much work would it be to fit them. And indicators. And headlights.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Just an odd question - is the DP1 road legal? I doubt it is, but if the Ariel Atom and Maserati MC Hammer are ...

EDIT : It has no rear lights as yet - but surely how much work would it be to fit them. And indicators. And headlights.

My understanding is it's a pure track car. Wouldn't be hard to turn it into a nominal road car.

It's got headlights and taillights coming, but i doubt it'll have indicators.

It´s good to see people trying to do something for LFS, and for what I saw and read, it would be a nice car to have in the game. From my point of view being LFS a kind of "independent" product it would be much easier to privacte manufacturers and racing teams to allow their cars in the game, because they would have much more to gain than large companies, and that way we could have "real " cars in LFS, like a lot of people want...
But making this public in such an early stage can create some trouble to the devs. If now they decide not to make this car because for them that's not important at this stage, there we´ll be a lot of people complaining and demanding to know why. If they decide to do it, it won´t be a week till we see threads asking when it´s going to be released...
So, let´s wait to see what the devs have to say about this, but whatever is their decision we should all respect it.

Given the amount of engineering know-how in these forums, and the appeal of having real cars in LFS, we* should just design and build a car.

* You. I am thick.