The online racing simulator
Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(353 posts, started , go to first unread)
Quote from Ibtasim6781 :Use Wheel / Joystick and assign Mouse X to Steer and then decrease the multiplier (default x1.0).

I if decrease the multiplier the wheel doesn't turn all the way to the left/right
Quote from R0ut66 :I if decrease the multiplier the wheel doesn't turn all the way to the left/right

Change in windows control panel?
Test Patch U21:

Interface:

Brakes / TC tab in garage separated into two columns (e.g. FZ50)
FIX: Heat in garage car's tyres was not updated when tyre changed

New handling for 'CAR.lfs' and 'shift_type.lfs' scripts:

LFS runs 'road.lfs' / 'sequential.lfs' / 'paddle.lfs' directly
(previously these scripts were called from a CAR.lfs script)
This is done after loading a car and immediately before CAR.lfs
Commands to run these scripts from another script are ignored

Graphics:

Avoid upward lighting related to ground colour in internal views

InSim:

New bytes output if /showfuel=yes
IS_NPL Fuel : initial fuel load
IS_PIT FuelAdd : fuel added

Translation update for help.txt:

host_cars - max is now 32
guest_cars - max is now 32
max_packs - max is now 12
mip_bias - default settings now -0.5 / -1.0 / -1.5 / -2.0

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95016
By the way what is mip_bias?
Scawen I've done more research and more testing with other players too. Reasons why WE think we need 3 configurations for FZR and XRR are:

1.(FZR is a drift Perfect Drift car, too fast for XRR) FZR being a car we will also use for drifting, other players have used it a lot, and there is proof of that. The FZR is a good drift contender vehicle and it doesn't compare with XRR. XRR is too slow due to rear tires being too skinny since there is no weight in the rear it just lights them up and your rear wheel speed is just always over 100 MPH after 1 min of drifting (even with very low rear tire pressure, under 20psi) RX/Drift FZR has 285 rear tires with more weight in the rear, causing it to have more grip. we need 275 rears in XRR drift Version

2.(Too much power for the tires)XRR feels great to drift right now with current Patch U20/U21 if you have around 300-400 BHP with 25%-15% Air Restriction due to having skinnier tires and narrower front track. WE believe if the vehicle has 490BHP we should be able to use all of it. Yes you can use all of it with Road super while drifting, but Road Super's don't have the tire physics us drifter like, they feel twitchy and the life of the tire is unrealistic for what we want.

3.(XRR Drift Mode needs wider front track) if you look at cars with wise fab, angle kits, drift competition cars, they all have wider front tracks with more camber than rear. Now that we have 60 degrees lock it would feel right with wider front track and more front camber so it helps with parallel steer and front tire contact during high speed and massive drift angle (picture below) BY THE WAY THE FRONT TRACK DONT NEED TO POKE OUT ON XRR DRIFT CONFIGURATION

4.(XRR vs FZR Racing and Drifting speed) We noticed FZR no matter the track, it is 1-2 seconds faster than XRR with Current U20/U21 around any track (using Road tires). With more driver skills and setup testing, I'm sure we can get that margin even bigger. Since the FZR feels faster, and its a bit harder to control, It usually just pulls from the XRR on the straights. XRR Hard track/GT/GT2 class (the name that you end up naming for Skinnier and Road tire class becomes).

5.(3 Configurations) We believe there should be different configuration over Drift, GTR class/Default and the GT2/Hard track/street class. Since GTR cars with slicks already perfect, allowing us to drift with GTR cars we appreciate, but they are not at the same level and they still need some tweaking. DRIFT CARS ARE SETUP VERY DIFFERENTLY THEN RACE CARS; WHEEL OFFSETS, TIRE WIDTH, WHEEL TRACK, STEERING ANGLE, AND CAMBER ANGLE. THE BIGHER THE POWER THE MORE ADJUSTMENT NEEDED TO MAKE IT FEEL BETTER TO THE DRIVER.

6.(Other add ons to consider) We liked the more tire in the rear, but also we like the skinnier tire on XRR when using 300-400 hp since we can tandem/chase XRT and FZ5 at a proper pace and about same tire wear. (picture below all running road normal)

Developers, again highly appreciate the game for the past 12 years (been playing since 2009) I know most of us want more and more from you guys, such as more cars, more tracks, more objects, more tires, track updates, etc. You guys are working with what you got without having to go crazy creating new things, and if it means allowing to use other vehicles in other classes/new classes then I think lets do it right and please add more configurations and may be even tire size choices.
Attached images
Capture.JPG
lfs_00000024.jpg
lfs_00000027.jpg
Quote from Scawen :Test Patch U21:
...
Graphics:

Avoid upward lighting related to ground colour in internal views
...

wow ! finally !!! Glad of this fix Na-na
Thumbs up
Quote from Scawen :
InSim:

New bytes output if /showfuel=yes
IS_NPL Fuel : initial fuel load
IS_PIT FuelAdd : fuel added

Tested and working fine Thumbs up

Would it be an idea for the "refuelling allowed" rule to be shown on the server rules when clicking on a server in the server list? (along with pitstop required etc)
Quote from kagurazakayukari :Change in windows control panel?

Why change the whole system sensitivity just to make the car more driveable? For me makes no sense. LFS should have an mouse sensitivity option
Quote from Scawen :Test Patch U21:

Interface:

Brakes / TC tab in garage separated into two columns (e.g. FZ50)
FIX: Heat in garage car's tyres was not updated when tyre changed

New handling for 'CAR.lfs' and 'shift_type.lfs' scripts:

LFS runs 'road.lfs' / 'sequential.lfs' / 'paddle.lfs' directly
(previously these scripts were called from a CAR.lfs script)
This is done after loading a car and immediately before CAR.lfs
Commands to run these scripts from another script are ignored

Graphics:

Avoid upward lighting related to ground colour in internal views

InSim:

New bytes output if /showfuel=yes
IS_NPL Fuel : initial fuel load
IS_PIT FuelAdd : fuel added

Translation update for help.txt:

host_cars - max is now 32
guest_cars - max is now 32
max_packs - max is now 12
mip_bias - default settings now -0.5 / -1.0 / -1.5 / -2.0

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95016

Will InSim be able to set the fuel/ tire wear, etc?
Quote from R0ut66 :Why change the whole system sensitivity just to make the car more driveable? For me makes no sense. LFS should have an mouse sensitivity option

This is because mouse method using your screen resolution width as your mouse horizontal axle matching zone. So it is fully depends on the mouse cursor X position mapping on the screen, not the relative movement of mouse itself. If you want a slower movement without changing system mouse sensitivity, and if center steering reduction can't match your need, another option is to try 3rd party mouse joystick software, such as vjoy, binding your mouse into a virtual joystick and driving by relative movement.
How will maxing out ff steps and ff rate efect my G29? Would it make it feel more detailed? Can you explain what those values represent in ffb?
Quote from Degats :Tested and working fine Thumbs up

Would it be an idea for the "refuelling allowed" rule to be shown on the server rules when clicking on a server in the server list? (along with pitstop required etc)

Thanks for the test and yes I should include the rules on that page.

Quote from R0ut66 :Why change the whole system sensitivity just to make the car more driveable? For me makes no sense. LFS should have an mouse sensitivity option

As kagurazakayukari says, LFS uses the mouse movement all the way from the left side of your screen to the right side of the screen to move your car steering from the left to right extreme. So it's already as 'insensitive' as it can possibly be. Are you using full native desktop resolution for LFS? I can only think of slowing down the mouse movement in Windows (but I think you said it is already as slow as possible) and what about making sure mouse acceleration is switched off?

Quote from Extreme1234 :How will maxing out ff steps and ff rate efect my G29? Would it make it feel more detailed? Can you explain what those values represent in ffb?

400 steps means that the steps of force go up in steps of 25 'units' where 0 is no force and 10000 is maximum force. I think the default of 400 steps and 50 Hz is enough on a G27. I don't know about a G29. To feel the effect you could reduce the number of steps to a low number then try driving a car in a slow slalom from left to right. You should notice the 'notches' as the force increases. So then you can increase the number of steps to the point where you can't feel the notches.

The reason for limiting the steps is to avoid constantly streaming new forces to the wheel, when the force hasn't changed enough to notice. This seemed to be a problem on older computers when this could reduce responsiveness by overloading the operating system with new force requests. I don't really know how much of a problem it is these days to send excessive force changes. The high numbers are really for direct drive wheels where the tiniest changes become noticeable.
Quote from Scawen :
InSim:

New bytes output if /showfuel=yes
IS_NPL Fuel : initial fuel load
IS_PIT FuelAdd : fuel added

Nice. Is it possible to get the fuel when 1) a car leaves the track 2) completes the race and/or a lap?
Quote from Scawen :[...]LFS uses the mouse movement all the way from the left side of your screen to the right side of the screen to move your car steering from the left to right extreme.[...]

Please, never change this behavior, AC1 and ACC use a different system where the mouse is locked in the middle of the screen and just the steering moves, it feels much worse than LFS, more unnatural, the way it's right now is good enough
Quote from PeterN :Nice. Is it possible to get the fuel when 1) a car leaves the track 2) completes the race and/or a lap?

I think it would be easy to add the remaining fuel percent to the IS_LAP packet in place of the Sp0 byte. Am I right to think that if this is the case, then it doesn't need to be added to IS_FIN as well?

I don't see a way to add it so simply for a player spectating or pitting. I'm not keen to add new packets at this time.
There's also a spare byte in MCI->CompCar (although it is the last one), might it be better in there also/instead for situations where laps aren't being completed?
Quote from martin18 :Scawen I've done more research and more testing with other players too. Reasons why WE think we need 3 configurations for FZR and XRR are:

Thanks for the feedback.

I have come up with one small change to try but I'm not prepared to spend time trying to make a proper drift config. There is no possible way that could be 'right' with the existing tyre physics and no possibility of even using a vehicle editor. I've just about reached the end of what I can do for this update.

Remember these incompatible changes were meant to allow some more fun for drifters and other racers. There was no intention to try and create a proper drift car.

The only thing I can really do at this time is try to adjust the existing config in such a way that it tries to keep everyone a little bit happier than they would have been, but obviously not as happy as they could be if they had a real vehicle editor with hundreds of adjustments. I would still like that to be the case one day. But the only way to move in that direction is if I get back to the development version.

There are way too many changes that would be needed to make a proper drift car and I don't even think I am the one to do it. It would be a big project. Actually I propose to remove the "DRIFT / RX" name and go for "ALTERNATE" instead. No real point selling it as a drift car, because is hasn't been properly developed for that. It has just had a few changes that make drifting and rallycross possible.

So for now the suggestion I have is to simply increase the XRR front and rear tyres by 10mm each. This makes the car fractionally faster and more competitive with the FZR. I've tested it and to me the balance feels OK and I managed to lap 6 tenths faster than the other day. I won't change the spacing. So the outer edge of the wheels are 5mm further out.
I have just tested XRR (with Rx/Drift setting) with autoclutch, and the clutch is engaged for a time really really quick, far quicker than for the FZR for example ... is that intentional ?
Quote from Scawen :Thanks for the feedback.

So for now the suggestion I have is to simply increase the XRR front and rear tyres by 10mm each. This makes the car fractionally faster and more competitive with the FZR. I've tested it and to me the balance feels OK and I managed to lap 6 tenths faster than the other day. I won't change the spacing. So the outer edge of the wheels are 5mm further out.

Scawen thank you for listening to our feedback and taking in consideration anything that we have said. Thank you for also attempting to balance the cars out on a realistic level without going to crazy with modifying the vehicles. I think on behalf of the Drift community we would take the compromise of only the extra 10mm F/R tires of XRR, since that way it felt pretty good and more evenly matched. Maybe next time around when this development version is done we consider more configurations and more adjustments. I think ending it there for test patches and making that the official version will be ok for now, since we are all pretty excited for the development version of night mode, track updates, new lighting and shadows, tire physics, and extra layout editing objects (fingers crossed I hope we get new object on new development version since it will make it more real for users making rally/AX/drift tracks. Apex, maybe grass, new concrete objects and more road signs) We don’t want to slow you down we just want more. Sorry we been needy and stubborn haha.

Thank you again Developers.
Quote from Racon :There's also a spare byte in MCI->CompCar (although it is the last one), might it be better in there also/instead for situations where laps aren't being completed?

I feel reluctant to add such an approximate and mostly unimportant number to such a high frequency packet. One day there might be a more important use for that byte.

If it seems important to have more regular updates, how about if it was in the IS_LAP and IS_SPX (split times) packets, in the Sp3 spare byte?

Quote from Flotch :I have just tested XRR (with Rx/Drift setting) with autoclutch, and the clutch is engaged for a time really really quick, far quicker than for the FZR for example ... is that intentional ?

Well spotted, thanks. It uses the sequential settings. I'll try to sort that out now.
Another Incompatible Test Patch, U22:

I hope the extra 10mm tyre width (front and rear) on the XRR make it better for drifting and a better match for the FZR in hard track racing.

Changes from 0.6U21 to 0.6U22: NEW INCOMPATIBLE VERSION

New configurations are now called ALTERNATE (not DRIFT / RX)
Small change to XR GTR alternate config - 10mm wider tyres
Virtual steering gauge hidden if live settings or pit instructions
New fuel options can be filtered and are visible on selected host
InSim IS_SPX and IS_LAP new byte Fuel200 indicates fuel remaining
FIX: Auto clutch time was wrong in the XR GTR in alternate config

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/95016
knobbly tires speaking : it is indeed better for the XRR Big grin Big grin
(it is still madness)
GJ Thumbs up

NB : still the warning for wrong the tire choice appearing with automatic load of the track when you have selected some Rx tires on ... a Rx track ... if by chance you can find where it is coming from Wink
Attached images
lfs_00000119.jpg
why are we running such big tires on a car that has half the horsepower of a drift spec car, according to the webs Vaughn runs `

`The car sits on 18-inche wheels wrapped in Nitto NT05 tires sized 295/35R18 on the rear and 275/35R18 on the front. ``

Its V-8 engine delivers a total of 845 horsepower (not 490bhp)

Personally, I liked the alternative better.

The tires seem way too grippy
Quote from ELDemon :why are we running such big tires on a car that has half the horsepower of a drift spec car, according to the webs Vaughn runs `

`The car sits on 18-inche wheels wrapped in Nitto NT05 tires sized 295/35R18 on the rear and 275/35R18 on the front. ``

Its V-8 engine delivers a total of 845 horsepower (not 490bhp)

Personally, I liked the alternative better.

The tires seem way too grippy

Because
1. Formula drift run semi slicks, and lfs don’t have those tire physics yet.
2. He might have that much power but his power to weight ratio is similar to XRR those cars all over 3000 Lbs, XRR under 2500 Lbs
3. If you have too much grip run road normal and add more rear psi if want to be a bit looser, also down force will affect grip
Quote from martin18 :Because
1. Formula drift run semi slicks, and lfs don’t have those tire physics yet.
2. He might have that much power but his power to weight ratio is similar to XRR those cars all over 3000 Lbs, XRR under 2500 Lbs
3. If you have too much grip run road normal and add more rear psi if want to be a bit looser, also down force will affect grip

this this this
easier to lose grip on grippy tires than to try and get grip from thinner tires

Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(353 posts, started )
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