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All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
SIEG HAIL! SIEG HAIL!
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People march in formation as they participate in the "Brotherhood and Civil Resistance March" in Moscow

http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... -5324378de4b091b75db16d80

This march was organized by party One Russia (At the XIII Congress of the Party May 26, 2012, Dmitry Medvedev was elected chairman of the United Russia - "Yedinaya Rassiya"= "One/Only Russia") and All-Russia People's Front (On 12 June 2013 Putin was elected its leader).
Do try reading my posts ! I've already posted about Russia's neonazi groups and their stands.
FYI, they don't like Putin.

And direct sources, isn't that posted by euromaidan ? Info posted by either side does require interpretation. Yes that film is interesting, so's the below film, also posted by euromaidan

As I've already said, the riot police kicked ass, the right kicked ass, the sniping was carried out from a euromaidan controlled area. A euromaidan politician was found with a sniper rifle by euromaidan. Then, strangely enough, allowed to leave with no questions asked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM6gNDoZu2M

There is a history of sniping attacks in US run 'peoples revolutions', try reading this global research article for a historical perspective.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/u ... acked-regime-change/27904
Do actually read this, it pays to have a wider perspective than just the current issue in the Ukraine.

The Russian investigative journalist Nikolay Starikov has written a book which discusses the role of unknown snipers in the destabilization of countries targeted for regime change by the United States and its allies. The following article attempts to elucidate some historical examples of this technique with a view to providing a background within which to understand the current cover war on the people of Syria by death squads in the service of Western intelligence.

Former secret agent with the French secret service, the DGSE(La Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure) Dominique Fonvielle, spoke candidly about the role of Western intelligence operatives in destabilizing the Romanian population.
“how do you organize a revolution? I believe the first step is to locate oppositional forces in a given country. It is sufficient to have a highly developed intelligence service in order to determine which people are credible enough to have influence at their hands to destabilize the people to the disadvantage of the ruling regime”

The western intelligence officials interviewed in the documentary also revealed how the Western press played a central role in disinformation. For example, the victims of Western-backed snipers were photographed by presented to the world as evidence of a crazed dictator who was “killing his own people”.

On April 12th 2010, Christian Science Monitor published a detailed report of the riots in Thailand between “red-shirt” activists and the Thai government. The article headline read: ‘Thailand’s red shirt protests darken with unknown snipers, parade of coffins’.

Like their counterparts in Tunisia, Thailand’s red shirts were calling for the resignation of the Thai prime minister. While a heavy-handed response by the Thai security forces to the protestors was indicated in the report, the government’s version of events was also reported:

“Mr. Abhisit has used solemn televised addresses to tell his story. He has blamed rogue gunmen, or “terrorists,” for the intense violence (at least 21 people died and 800 were injured) and emphasized the need for a full investigation into the killings of both soldiers and protesters. State television has broadcast repeated images of soldiers coming under fire from bullets and explosives.”

Sound familier ? Hmmm, just like the Ukraine, as indeed is every other example in the article.

Quote from Racer X NZ :Do try reading my posts ! I've already posted about Russia's neonazi groups and their stands.
FYI, they don't like Putin.

Please get the message - Putin is nazicommunist.


Maybe I can get you a little bit in realities of postcommunism and why it needs new Second Cold War.

Postcommunist apartheid is what makes situation so violent.
You have situation when everything people do gets political - political affiliations decide if you get job in administration, if that administration let you run your business or if you get contract from that administration. When there are couple groups, like in Ukraine, every election can be matter of life and death (what you can see in cases of Yushchenko, poisoned during election campaign, or Tymoshenko who got jailed). When there is one party of power (like One Russia) it is classical apartheid example.

Furthermore, economy is also deeply affected by this evolved communist organization - supply/demand laws are put aside, and neverending dream of driven economy persists: economy driven by administration, corruption or... algorithms.
I can give example, maybe quite interesting for ppl here - about used cars deals. Recently I have purchased/sold/scrapped 4 cars in 2 weeks. I did it so quickly because I didn't bother with "proffessional valuation of used car" (enforced on market mostly for insurance purpose) but I negotiated based on that to meet my and buyer/seller goals. Meanwhile all used car dealers have full stock of cars waiting for sale for a year or more with "proffessional valuation of used car" prices with which they loose value by 5% a year just standing in the garage. And instead of minimizing losses giving reasonable price they wait for... salvation??? The only viable explanation is that thay buy scrap, prepare it blink for sale and off you go...

Summarizing - it just DOESN'T WORK.
Hand-driven economy doesn't work.
Apartheid-type organization creates violent conflicts.
I would give it a go to scrapyard
So my advice for Atlantic Alliance to say: NAZICOMMIES, GET THE FCUK OUT!
Holy **** reading this thread was so cringe-inducing.

#130 - CSF
So, Scottish independence anyone?
I would love it if the Scottish got independence, the only problem is, just like us poor Welsh ***ers, the English have already taken most of our natural wealth.

I still think we have earned the right to decide our own fate, so a referendum on Scottish and Welsh independence is the right thing to do. I heared a vicious rumour that the UK were promised one of them referendums on the whole Europe thing, and we're still waiting
So we really need another cold/hot war do we ?



I don't know how old you are but I certainly remember the last one and have no desire to repeat the experiment.

And the economic stuff, welcome to most other countries in the world. And the Ukraine ruled by olegarchs, sounds great. That will really work well for the people. Same as the last 20 years of olegarch rule.

And Tymoshenko being jailed ? What a suprise. What's her nickname, 'the gas princess' ? And, yes, Yanukovych was just as much a criminal as she was.

This is by the New Statesman, rabidly right wing and opposed to Putin.

but Ukraine has been a surreally corrupt parliamentary democracy, run by a lineage of serially corrupt presidents, for 23 years. So why now? And it has risen up only to fall foul of yet another bully.

But let’s, for the sake of argument, examine what corruption means in Ukrainian terms. In the mid-1990s a friend living in Odessa asked me what I thought of his country’s prospects. I said it seemed to me that building on the foundations of the time – stagflation, ubiquitous mafia activity, dire infrastructure, astronomical fiscal crime – was like trying to fill a rusty bath full of holes. He shook his head. “It is worse,” he said. “We are an open house which is being looted while the people who live in it watch.”

The former Ukrainian prime minister Pavlo Lazarenko was recently released after eight years in detention in a Californian jail for embezzling at least $100m from United Energy Systems of Ukraine, the company that he set up with one Yulia Tymoshenko. Yanukovych’s predecessor Leonid Kuchma negotiated an amnesty for himself over alleged illicit weapons sales to Iraq. Even the “honest man” of the Orange Revolution, Viktor Yushchenko, rapidly disgusted his people by enriching his family members.
http://www.newstatesman.com/po ... 03/ukraine-rebirth-nation

So, how exactly are the US sponsored criminals going to be an improvement, especially as they are actually the same criminals you've had for years. Only this time you get the bonus of Nazi's.
And 'democracy', the Crimea votes 93/7 to go to Russia. And clearly this US paid for 'revolution' is all about democracy ( the people's choice ).

Clearly that's a joke. Here's our NZ media's concept of 'democracy'.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/worl ... d=2&objectid=11221156

So where is the wealth the approved 'olegarchs' want to steal ?
Racer X NZ please shut up, the amount of sense you are making is so close to zero that it is, in fact, actually zero
Quote from Racer X NZ :So we really need another cold/hot war do we ?


I don't know how old you are but I certainly remember the last one and have no desire to repeat the experiment.




So, how exactly are the US sponsored criminals going to be an improvement, especially as they are actually the same criminals you've had for years. Only this time you get the bonus of Nazi's.

"So we really need another cold/hot war do we ?"

Why not? The neo-crusader/islamofascist showdown is getting old. Besides, look at all the cool movies that came out as the result of the cold war. And Berlin was a rocking city. And Detroit had people in it.

"I don't know how old you are but I certainly remember the last one and have no desire to repeat the experiment."

I froze my nuts off in the cold war and partied like it was 1999. You have no idea the amount of FUN I had spending my formative years living in a world class city that was a major hub for the Southwestern US and much of Latin America... Man, the amount of hell I raised during that time. One of these dudes I ran around with off and on in those days was in the country illegally. He was an AWOL Sergeant from the El Salvadoran Army during their civil war. He also had a big chunk of his family in the marxist camp. Both sides decided he knew too much about each other and decided he needed to die. So he wound up in Texas and wound up with the stoner/metalhead/lowriders.. He's probably dead now.
These Millenials don't know what they've missed. No way in hell I'd have been stuck in front of a box banging on Keyboards whining on facebook about some stupid social issue or another back then. Yeah, the 80's was great.

"So, how exactly are the US sponsored criminals going to be an improvement, especially as they are actually the same criminals you've had for years. Only this time you get the bonus of Nazi's"

You actually have to ask this one? Really? Why that's easy. Life under the Putin mafia would be dreary and boring and restrictive. All they'd have to look forward to was social exploitation and bootleg vodka from St. Petersburg.
With the West? They get all that and more. Like easy access to HBO.GO, German luxury cars and X boxes.
And when our thugs get a God complex and start a genocidal rampage, we take them out and replace them with a kinder, gentler totalitarian regime.
The Russians get a loose cannon on their payroll, they make the psychotic despots build a fence around themselves and then they spend a big chunk of their time using their slot at the U.N. vetoing sanctions.
You don't realize this?
Quote from Racer X NZ :
I don't know how old you are but I certainly remember the last one and have no desire to repeat the experiment.

I remember Cold War as Reagan's SDI bringing USSR to defeat, which in this situation is perfect kind of sanctions affecting mostly military sector.
Quote :And Tymoshenko being jailed ? What a suprise. What's her nickname, 'the gas princess' ? And, yes, Yanukovych was just as much a criminal as she was.

Hah, I didn't know gas negotiations is a reason to jail someone
The reason there was strictly political, and as always there, extremely ruthless. She got rid of RosUkrEnergo, russian-ukrainian joint venture which is an intimediary in gas deals (in Poland also similar - EuroPolGaz), getting kind of bakshish. The price for this was higher price of gas... But then was persecution.
This is how ruthless are bandit regimes there.
Quote :
But let’s, for the sake of argument, examine what corruption means in Ukrainian terms. In the mid-1990s a friend living in Odessa asked me what I thought of his country’s prospects. I said it seemed to me that building on the foundations of the time – stagflation, ubiquitous mafia activity, dire infrastructure, astronomical fiscal crime – was like trying to fill a rusty bath full of holes. He shook his head. “It is worse,” he said. “We are an open house which is being looted while the people who live in it watch.”

GREAT, now you get it!
The turn back from Russia was the way for Ukrainians to escape from this corruption-driven oligarch economy type to transform into more legal and lawful of european type.

But the main rule in Soviet/Russia area is: NATION CANNOT DECIDE to set free from Russia. It can "decide" to join Russia but not the other way.
Quote from AndRand :But the main rule in Soviet/Russia area is: NATION CANNOT DECIDE to set free from Russia. It can "decide" to join Russia but not the other way.

So how come Poland decided not to join Soviet Union after World War II?
Quote from E.Reiljans :So how come Poland decided not to join Soviet Union after World War II?

Poland? I don't think it was Poland's decision (btw. whole general command and several ministries where Russians with Polish names in 1945)
After IIWW borders moved thouands of kilometers west, it wasn't Poland's decision where they would be. We had 3 uprisisals after the IIWW till 1989' when Soviet block collapsed.
Quote from E.Reiljans :So how come Poland decided not to join Soviet Union after World War II?

Even Soviet Russia don't want Polandball.
Quote from AndRand :
But the main rule in Soviet/Russia area is: NATION CANNOT DECIDE to set free from Russia. It can "decide" to join Russia but not the other way.

I think you'll find that most federal republics forbid unilateral secession by their member-states. This includes India, the USA, Brazil, Canada , Russia and Germany.
So shall we take a recent example of the people in a region voting for independence that the west did fully approve of, and apply the same logic.

The Assembly of Kosovo, then a province of Serbia under transitional UN administration (UNMIK), approved a declaration of independence on 17 February 2008.[1] Kosovo was soon recognized as a Sovereign state by the United States, Turkey, Albania, Austria, Germany, Italy, France, the United Kingdom, the Republic of China (Taiwan), and others.[2] This triggered an international debate over whether Kosovo's independence has set a precedent that could apply to other separatist movements or is a special case.[3] The recognition of Kosovo's independence by 108 out of 193 UN states, according to many sources, has given fresh impetus to other separatist movements.[4]
There is an estimation that a group of between 70 and 200 nations and organizations use the Kosovo precedent to achieve their goals.[5] Abkhazia and South Ossetia renewed their calls for the recognition of their sovereignty. Kosovo's independence also led to increased tensions in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where the Republika Srpska vetoed recognising Kosovo, and threatened to declare independence themselves.[6] The Republic of Crimea proclaimed its independence from Ukraine on 11 March 2014, citing the Kosovo precedent.

Sergei Mironov, the chairman of Russia's upper house of parliament said in December 2007, "In case of the unilateral recognition of the independence of Kosovo, Russia will be entitled to change its approach to the so-called unrecognised republics in the post-soviet regions - South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Pridnestrovie." He went on to say "In case of such a recognition of Kosovo, Russia will be able to say that it is free in its approach, including towards the so-called unrecognised republics of Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Pridnestrovie [Transnistria]."[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_independence_precedent

And yes, the moneys in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, that's what the IMF and the olegarchs want to get their hands on, America wants Russia out of the area as their fleet is there. Freedom and Liberty are fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the bankers aims.
Who own's the western media ?
Who owns the US govt ?

And, this is a good analysis of Kosovo independence, and what led to it by Noam Chomsky.
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200005--.htm

And, given the western support for Kosovo independence, lets see how it's going there and why the west may have supported it.

The report charged that former Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) boss and current Prime Minister, Hashim Thaçi, “is the head of a ‘mafia-like’ Albanian group responsible for smuggling weapons, drugs and human organs through eastern Europe,” The Guardian disclosed.

According to a draft resolution unanimously approved December 16 in Paris, the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights found compelling evidence of forced disappearances, organ trafficking, corruption and collusion between criminal gangs and “political circles” in Kosovo who just happen to be close regional allies of the United States.

Reporting for the BBC , investigative journalist Michael Montgomery learned that political opponents of the KLA and Serb prisoners of war “simply vanished without a trace” into a secret prison “in the Albanian border town of Kukes.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/k ... -eu-nato-drug-trail/22486

And this is even more telling.

Two years ago a joke was being circulated on the Runet that a heroin producer has recognized its distributor’s independence. It was about Afghanistan, which was to the first to recognize the independence of the Serbian province of Kosovo which had illegally separated from Yugoslavia.

Kosovo has since become a transit point for drugs, channelled from Asia to Europe.
According to the Canadian detective Stewart Kellock, the Albanian drug mafia operates with the connivance of the United States. Mr. Kellock said in an interview that US diplomats prevent the detention in Kosovo of notorious drug traffickers.

Officially, the Americans are working hard to stamp out heroin production in Afghanistan, but in reality they, namely the CIA, are using the proceeds from the drug trade, including the illegal drug traffic to Kosovo from Afghanistan which is facilitated mainly via the Bondsteel Base, to replenish their secret coffers, All this means that, with the help of Western patrons, Kosovo has been turned into a breeding ground for all kinds of drug dealers and other criminals. Or, as Alexis Troud from the Paris-based International Academy of Geopolitics famously said, “A criminal zone run by the Albanian mafia”…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/d ... sits-through-kosovo/19581

And opium production in Afghanistan, under US control, is up how much ?

2001 was under the Taliban, one possible reason for the 2001 invasion ?
The United States refused to n ... with the United Kingdom.

That is the point I'm making, and that is why the US refuses to accept Kosovo as being a valid precedent when it comes to the Crimea.

Quote from Yuri Laszlo :I think you'll find that most federal republics forbid unilateral secession by their member-states. This includes India, the USA, Brazil, Canada , Russia and Germany.

It's a damn shame. What we wouldn't give to get rid of Quebec.

Hey Russia! Do you guys want a province instead of Crimea?
Quote from racer x nz :so shall we take a recent example of the people in a region voting for independence that the west did fully approve of, and apply the same logic.

The assembly of kosovo[...]

Косово је земља Србије
Quote from E.Reiljans :Косово је земља Србије

Google translate: Kosovo is a country of Serbia

Well, fine. I completely fail to see what point your making. The West has already decided that they ( Kosovo) are dealing their drugs/females/etc. That's what made that (their independence from Serbia) decision ok, and the Crimea's completely unacceptable, as their not.........

And Russia is stealing the IMF's money. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, both who want to go Russian, if they do, then there goes 70% of the IMF, olegarchs money.
AND the US won't get Russia out of their ports, AND that will mean they still support Syria. AND, AND, AND........

Plus, Russia has pulled 100+Billion of US bonds in the last week, China is also likely to pull their money, given that they abstained from the security council vote, AND don't disagree with the Russian actions.
Treasury securities held in custody for foreign official and international accounts tumbled by $105 billion in the week that ended Wednesday, according to weekly data released late Thursday.*(Wall St Journal)
http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat ... mp-its-treasury-holdings/
Also, both are talking about coming up with an agreed currency for international business that isn't the US dollar.

The cold war can take on a different focus now the US is effectively bankrupt.

Both Russia and China, for different reasons, would like to see that happen.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Google translate: Kosovo is a country of Serbia

Well, fine. I completely fail to see what point your making. The West has already decided that they ( Kosovo) are dealing their drugs/females/etc. That's what made that (their independence from Serbia) decision ok, and the Crimea's completely unacceptable, as their not.........

And Russia is stealing the IMF's money. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, both who want to go Russian, if they do, then there goes 70% of the IMF, olegarchs money.
AND the US won't get Russia out of their ports, AND that will mean they still support Syria. AND, AND, AND........

The difference is: Serbian military were killing thousands of Kosovians while there was no sign of any hostile acts at Crimea. Furthermore, now Ukrainians and Tatars are murdered in Crimea by "self-defence" forces.
In Syria there is regime using heavy military force to change city districts into pile of ruins.

IT IS THAT simple.
that article from the Turkish newspaper is supposed to be a 1st April joke ?

All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
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