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2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix
(260 posts, started )
http://youtu.be/erBfG4xk0vg

39 overtakes more than any other driver in Formula One. Now if Lewis would just calm down and realise he's not playing a computer game we would have one hell of a British Formula One team. At the moment Hamilton you're letting the side down.
3 points...
Quote from speedykev :http://youtu.be/erBfG4xk0vg

39 overtakes more than any other driver in Formula One. Now if Lewis would just calm down and realise he's not playing a computer game we would have one hell of a British Formula One team. At the moment Hamilton you're letting the side down.

Button does a lot of passing because he's not very good at qualifying.
Quote from thisnameistaken :Button does a lot of passing because he's not very good at qualifying.

ya that's right Jenson button is no hot laper. But there again he doesn't need to be, when he overtakes its all calculated he learns how the driver in front will react and he knows when to overtake, unlike Hamilton who has no idea how the driver in front is going to react. that's why 9 times out of 10 he causes an accident.
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :
The biggest problem with Hamilton was that he jumped straight into a front running car, he needed a season or two in a slower car to make his mistakes.

And even the most ardent Hamilton fans would have to question whether if he had started in a bottom team, (like everyone else has), he would still be in F1. Talented or not the lower teams can't afford drivers that get involved in as many incidents has Hamilton does, (irrespective of fault).
Also, I'd be hugely interested in how people on this forum, (and the media in general), would be discussing Hamilton if he was a "backmarker" driver and making the mistakes he does. He get's "let off" a lot of perfectly valid critisism just because on other occasions he has amazing races and wins stuff.
Well if hamilton was as good as alonso at mclaren then surely hamilton would have pretty much destroyed any other team mate he would have had in some slower team. Like he did with heikki. Or like alonsi did with fisichella and is doing with massa.

Simply because he did not drive minardi for his first season does not mean he did not earn his position at mclaren based on speed, ability to win and talent.

How many times did lewis crash his car on his debut season? Was he really a wreckfest like you seem to suggest gezmoor?

Schumacher seems to be wrecking a lot too. Wonder if he had started in a bottom team, (like everyone else has), he would still be in F1...
At least 2/3 Hamilton's fault.
Quote from pearcy_2k7 : still had some track and a large amount of kurb to use.

Sweet, the width of a hand to at 266kph, and hamiltons has already broken his rear suspension.

I consider this 1000000ppm Hamiltons fault, but still a racing incident.
If Hamilton had the privledge of having the fastest car then he wouldn't need to risk much, and anyone that says button is better is clearly blind, no matter how many times Hamilton cocks up he will still have the highest points tally by the end, which highlights he's massive talent compared to button.

And btw I think the incident was hamiltons fault, in the same way it was buttons fault at Canada, they both failed to notice the driver was along side and caused an incident via following the proposed racing line.
Quote from speedykev :ya that's right Jenson button is no hot laper. But there again he doesn't need to be, when he overtakes its all calculated he learns how the driver in front will react and he knows when to overtake, unlike Hamilton who has no idea how the driver in front is going to react. that's why 9 times out of 10 he causes an accident.

No the reason Hamilton has more accidents than Button is because Jenson will wait for a safe opportunity to pass, whereas Hamilton will take the first opportunity he sees. Which means Hamilton is usually up the front or crashed out, while Button can often spend long periods in the mid field trying to find a way past a slow car where Hamilton would've just barged through ten laps sooner.
Quote from Mustafur :If Hamilton had the privledge of having the fastest car then he wouldn't need to risk much, and anyone that says button is better is clearly blind, no matter how many times Hamilton cocks up he will still have the highest points tally by the end, which highlights he's massive talent compared to button.

And btw I think the incident was hamiltons fault, in the same way it was buttons fault at Canada, they both failed to notice the driver was along side and caused an incident via following the proposed racing line.

Button had the fastest car this weekend if you look at the race. He even said he had the best car before the race. So why didn't Hamilton have one too? I remember Hamilton starting from second place so he did have the second fastest car for sure. Not to mention that in Hamilton's accident Koba hadn't pitted but Hamilton had. So actually that situation had absolutely nothing to do with having the fastest car. Didn't you watch the race? His accident with Button also had nothing to do with having the fastest car in the race (Button did win Canada) and in Monaco he HAD the best car (even said so himself) but messed up his quali (with a little help from his team) and was again behind slower cars.

So you see, actually all those collisions he's had have NOTHING to do with not having the fastest car. In fact I dare say when Hamilton's had the fastest car he's messed up more than when he didn't have the best car.

And if Hamilton keeps messing up this much Button will be ahead of him in the points after season as he is in front of him now. Just simple statistics. If he improves and doesn't crash this often he might be ahead of Button.
Quote from Juzaa :Button had the fastest car this weekend if you look at the race. He even said he had the best car before the race. So why didn't Hamilton have one too? I remember Hamilton starting from second place so he did have the second fastest car for sure. Not to mention that in Hamilton's accident Koba hadn't pitted but Hamilton had. So actually that situation had absolutely nothing to do with having the fastest car. Didn't you watch the race? His accident with Button also had nothing to do with having the fastest car in the race (Button did win Canada) and in Monaco he HAD the best car (even said so himself) but messed up his quali (with a little help from his team) and was again behind slower cars.

So you see, actually all those collisions he's had have NOTHING to do with not having the fastest car. In fact I dare say when Hamilton's had the fastest car he's messed up more than when he didn't have the best car.

And if Hamilton keeps messing up this much Button will be ahead of him in the points after season as he is in front of him now. Just simple statistics. If he improves and doesn't crash this often he might be ahead of Butt

notice how in those conditions he wasn't at the front, like vettel the car works perfect for qualifying and in most cases is faster, once your at the front everything works for you.
Hmmm.

Vettel isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Webber is rarely at the front, and it worked out for him.
Button isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Schumacher isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Petrov isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.

Hamilton isn't always at the front, and usually crashes into somebody when he isn't.
Quote from Mustafur :notice how in those conditions he wasn't at the front, like vettel the car works perfect for qualifying and in most cases is faster, once your at the front everything works for you.

And here we come to the important question...Why wasn't he at front when after all in every single one of those situations Hamilton had the best car?
In Monaco you could say the team messed up a bit but so did Hamilton. In Canada Hamilton did start 2 places ahead of Button and in last race Hamilton did start the race from second place.

In Canada Button had already overtaken Hamilton. (if he's so good at driving in front how come he had fallen behind button?)
In Monaco Hamilton made a mistake in his qualifying lap which cost him quite much.
In last race Hamilton started as second but couldn't keep his place (because he's so good at driving in front?)

Now I know in Canada and in Monaco Hamilton's position in the back wasn't 100% his fault but you can't deny there's a pattern here.
Pretty daft mistake really, Hamilton wanted to squeeze Kobayashi and misjudged the space available, or perhaps Hamilton though he could push Kobayashi into backing off early, only he knows. Surely he would've appreciated that Kobayashi really isn't the kind of driver that backs off easily.
Quote from Juzaa :And here we come to the important question...Why wasn't he at front when after all in every single one of those situations Hamilton had the best car?
In Monaco you could say the team messed up a bit but so did Hamilton. In Canada Hamilton did start 2 places ahead of Button and in last race Hamilton did start the race from second place.

In Canada Button had already overtaken Hamilton. (if he's so good at driving in front how come he had fallen behind button?)
In Monaco Hamilton made a mistake in his qualifying lap which cost him quite much.
In last race Hamilton started as second but couldn't keep his place (because he's so good at driving in front?)

Now I know in Canada and in Monaco Hamilton's position in the back wasn't 100% his fault but you can't deny there's a pattern here.

Um for obvious situations, Redbull where faster at Spa outright, but Hamilton had slight damage still got 2nd, in Monaco he was hampered by the red flag in Q3 from perez, but other then that the car really hasn't had an advanatage, maybe at Spain but the car lacked Qualifying pace by up to a second.
Quote from tristancliffe :Hmmm.

Vettel isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Webber is rarely at the front, and it worked out for him.
Button isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Schumacher isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.
Petrov isn't always at the front, and it worked out for him.

Hamilton isn't always at the front, and usually crashes into somebody when he isn't.

Vettel is always at the front and when he isn't he makes a joke of him self(see German GP).

Webber has a advantage of a fast outright car and Button isn't a risk taker and is pretty much Hamilton shadow 90% of the time, the others are way slower and i have no idea what your getting at there?

Spa was hes fault, but i find it similar to Button taking out Hamilton at Canada to be honest, both where caused because they didn't see there opponent.
Quote from Mustafur :Um for obvious situations, Redbull where faster at Spa outright, but Hamilton had slight damage still got 2nd, in Monaco he was hampered by the red flag in Q3 from perez, but other then that the car really hasn't had an advantage, maybe at Spain but the car lacked Qualifying pace by up to a second.

Button's fastest lap was 0.4 seconds faster than Vettel's fastest lap in Spa's race and Hamilton's speed in quali with a damaged car just shows Mclaren was probably faster than RBR. Because RBR is traditionally a bit better in quali I dare say Mclaren and RBR were quite even in the qualifying.

In Monaco Hamilton did suffer from red flag but remember that Hamilton also messed up his qualifying lap after the red flags. His mistake cost him at least 4 places in the grid. I also remember Hamilton saying after qualifying that they were faster than RBR and without the red flag he would've been on the pole.

In Canada Button had the fastest lap which was 0.3 seconds faster than Vettel's so they did have an advantage there too.

RBR's cars are designed for qualifying and so far in every race RBR's advantage from qualifying has diminished or disappeared completely. Because of the DRS in most races (Monaco is probably the only exception) you have been able to overtake by pressing a button so driving behind is actually not a real issue because you can get past if you are faster. The issue is that while Vettel has driven constantly good lap times and avoided mistakes (except for Germany and Canada) the others have not been able to have the same consistancy.

So far Vettel has had ONE (1!) fastest lap of the race where Webber, Button and Hamilton all have several fastest laps of the race. So Vettel's performance hasn't actually been that much about speed but consistency. In qualifying Vettel has driven fast but in races he's not been the fastest but rather the most consistent driver.
Quote from Juzaa :Button's fastest lap was 0.4 seconds faster than Vettel's fastest lap in Spa's race and Hamilton's speed in quali with a damaged car just shows Mclaren was probably faster than RBR. Because RBR is traditionally a bit better in quali I dare say Mclaren and RBR were quite even in the qualifying.

In Monaco Hamilton did suffer from red flag but remember that Hamilton also messed up his qualifying lap after the red flags. His mistake cost him at least 4 places in the grid. I also remember Hamilton saying after qualifying that they were faster than RBR and without the red flag he would've been on the pole.

In Canada Button had the fastest lap which was 0.3 seconds faster than Vettel's so they did have an advantage there too.

RBR's cars are designed for qualifying and so far in every race RBR's advantage from qualifying has diminished or disappeared completely. Because of the DRS in most races (Monaco is probably the only exception) you have been able to overtake by pressing a button so driving behind is actually not a real issue because you can get past if you are faster. The issue is that while Vettel has driven constantly good lap times and avoided mistakes (except for Germany and Canada) the others have not been able to have the same consistancy.

So far Vettel has had ONE (1!) fastest lap of the race where Webber, Button and Hamilton all have several fastest laps of the race. So Vettel's performance hasn't actually been that much about speed but consistency. In qualifying Vettel has driven fast but in races he's not been the fastest but rather the most consistent driver.

fastest lap doesn't mean squat, the cars get lighter as the race progresses and it all matters on what tyres and how hard your pushing at the end.

in fact you using fastest lap as a measurement of speed potential is just lols, since the re-fuelling ban you get random people setting fastest lap, heck last year Petrov got the fastest lap at turkey does that mean Renault had the fastest car that race??
Quote from Juzaa :
So far Vettel has had ONE (1!) fastest lap of the race where Webber, Button and Hamilton all have several fastest laps of the race. So Vettel's performance hasn't actually been that much about speed but consistency. In qualifying Vettel has driven fast but in races he's not been the fastest but rather the most consistent driver.

Why would you like to push your car to the limit while being in the 1st position? Your argument is so invalid
I went this year, and on the Friday I saw a German man with an epic mustache in an LFS polo shirt. Any idea who it was?
Dom.
Quote from Kandis :Why would you like to push your car to the limit while being in the 1st position? Your argument is so invalid

Usually we Vettel has won the differences have been only a few seconds. Isn't that a reason to drive hard? What about when Vettel hasn't been the first? He hasn't gotten fastest laps then.

Hamilton has 2 wins. He has a fastest lap in one and a second fastest in the other. Why is that? Why didn't he just cruise around?

Here's a little statistics for you. In the 6 races we have had where Vettel did not win 4 times the winner has had the fastest lap in his name. Are you suggesting that Hamilton, Button and Alonso are stupid because they drove faster than the others when they were leading?

Also in most races Vettel has not won by a huge margin. In 3 races he's won the margin has been less than 3.5 seconds to the second driver. 2 times it has been about 10 seconds and once 20 seconds. In 3 races he's won I can guarantee he's been pushing as hard as he can. Also in the ones he's been second with only few seconds to the first he'd be a fool not to push.

2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix
(260 posts, started )
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