@ Tristancliffe: This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the Oval. Just that we chase view drivers finally want to have our mirror....for oval or not for oval...Crazy Harry just explained why he started that thread, because hes going to circuits now and discovered again how desperately he needs that mirror....months ago he allready posted he wants that mirror finally (just use the search function / its not just now where he goes to circuits that he needs it).... have you only read first post....maybe then you shouldnt go into dicussion...

But to say something to what you said, its not "difficult" to drive without chase view, you just have to be really careful, which often costs me a lot of places in races, but thats the same on the oval.

Hmmm... I dunno. How about a chase view for the mirrors? What about that?
Where you see the chase view of the car behind you.....

I remember a year or so ago, somebody was really trying to push for cockpit view only or something...lol the view nazis... anyways. If you people can use chase view, then more power to you. If you chase users think mirrors would help, then maybe you ought to put that idea on the improvements thread.
And if you do post that there, plz remember to add in that Racer Y wants flaming trash cans ok? Please?

Uh, I've been known to race in a towel once or twice... And then unexpected company comes over.... I go into chase view then.... but in a completely different way

Quote from Racer Y :

Uh, I've been known to race in a towel once or twice... And then unexpected company comes over.... I go into chase view then.... but in a completely different way

Thanks for sharing!

Quote from Racer Y :

Uh, I've been known to race in a towel once or twice... And then unexpected company comes over.... I go into chase view then.... but in a completely different way

Now I know what the most popular vote is talking about!

Having a chase view is a bit unreal, but you can use it just for admire the car models from behind and because it has been in every car related game/simulation it's sort of mandatory. But having a mirror in chase view is arcade. You get the best experience when you drive from inside, it can take practice to know where the cars around you are but it's part of racing and it's worth to learn. The mirror would just be the easy and arcade way to make things easier without any learning.

I just wish we had "real" mirrors. I don't really care about chase view, although it's a popular view for people who played a lot of older games (wich often didn't have cockpit view, mostly arcade too).

I chose to laugh with it, while I actually thought "let them have it, but I don't really care".

Quote from Blackout :

But having a mirror in chase view is arcade.

Hm... thats not wrong at all in my opinion. But IMHO it makes "our" race saver if chase drivers have mirrors. I really hate it when I block someone.

Quote :

A lot of virtual reality research (I could dig up some references if anyone cares) suggests that putting the camera behind the user's avatar leads to more effective control and movement in the virtual world

I'm not sure if this really applies to racing, personally i've always found I can more accurately place my car with cockpit or bonnet views in race games. In LFS I even narrow my FOV and find after doing so i'm more consistent.

Of course the loss is peripheral vision, but with a combination of pit spotter and general awareness of the race around me I seem to do ok most of the time.

Of course I did just 10 minutes ago turn in on someone, which reminds me, I need to check that replay and see if my appology was necessary - turrah for now ...

I think all options should be available in every view. Mirrors in chase view, rear view in chase, etc.

+1 for 100% customisation!

Quote from Nobo :

Not really, because that are basic game things which take effect to everyone. Like you said, that would be a step in the wrong direction. That what i meant with realistic physics, that has to be realistic.

Which input the players uses (Wheel, joystick, mouse...) or which view (cockpit, tyre or chase) should be down to each single person, because that only influences his way of driving.
If i drive chase view it doesnt affect others simulation fun.

As a server side option, tire wear wouldn't affect others simulation fun, since everyone would have the same settings.

How is it not double standards, when you say that one aspect of realism should be mandatory, while the other could be an option?

Quote from Crazy Harry :

Erm... why do you want to force cockpit view? You have probs with chase view drivers in race? Are they faster? Or dangerous? Have they more or less view over difficult situations? Can´t understand why someone want to force a cockpit view.

The same reason you force people to use a particular car or a track. You don't have to go to that server, if you don't like it.

Maybe its a little language barrier here....i mean, if tyre wear would be turned of, it would be for everyone on the server. But when i change view its just for me to make the game playable for me. If you compete in races you'll always choose the way you are fastest with.

Quote from jtr99 :

+1, let them eat mirrors.

I am slightly surprised to find myself coming to the defence of Crazy Harry and co., but I think people have to be careful when claiming that cockpit view is the be-all and end-all of realism. Why is cockpit view realistic? Because the camera position in the sim is where the driver's eyes would be in a car. OK, cool. That's one aspect of realism. But in terms of peripheral vision, cockpit view on most reasonable FOV settings loses a lot of realism, because it makes the sim driver unaware of what's going on to either side, whereas the real car driver would be perfectly aware of the car coming up beside him.

This may surprise you, but you CAN look left, right, and back in the cockpit view. I always check my sides when being passed/passing.

Quote from Nobo :

Maybe its a little language barrier here....i mean, if tyre wear would be turned of, it would be for everyone on the server. But when i change view its just for me to make the game playable for me. If you compete in races you'll always choose the way you are fastest with.

Sure does seem like a language barrier, since I was sure you were talking about server side options, and not just your personal options.

Quote from Whisper :

How is it not double standards, when you say that one aspect of realism should be mandatory, while the other could be an option?

Simple, you have to keep in mind it is a simulation on a computer. And therefore there are aspects being limited. So something we can simulate, and that nobody should have any problems with, should be mandatory, like tire wear. But when it comes to the view in the game, it'll always be a matter of taste, and what you prefer, and this is something you can't make mandatory. I can't really explain, you just have to understand that there are aspects that just don't need to be mandatory, and some that do.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Simple, you have to keep in mind it is a simulation on a computer. And therefore there are aspects being limited. So something we can simulate, and that nobody should have any problems with, should be mandatory, like tire wear.

Well, I have a problem with it. Sometimes I want to be able to turn it off, when just racing off-line. What I do when I'm racing off-line shouldn't affect you at all. So why can't I have that option?

Quote from Becky Rose :

I'm not sure if this really applies to racing, personally i've always found I can more accurately place my car with cockpit or bonnet views in race games. In LFS I even narrow my FOV and find after doing so i'm more consistent.

I hear what you're saying. This has been my experience as well. I was just pointing out that there was potentially some empirical support for the fans of chase view. I suspect we both agree that there's some sort of tradeoff between precision in the forward direction and awareness of what's going on to the side.

Quote :

Of course I did just 10 minutes ago turn in on someone, which reminds me, I need to check that replay and see if my appology was necessary - turrah for now ...

Good luck with that!

Quote from Whisper :

This may surprise you, but you CAN look left, right, and back in the cockpit view. I always check my sides when being passed/passing.

Do you think your sarcastic tone is adding anything here? Please don't treat me like a donkey just because I happened to offer a little support to some oval people.

I too look to the left and right when passing and being passed. I don't use chase view, I use cockpit view and lately wheels view.

It's great that the look left / right feature is available, and it certainly helps. However, it clearly doesn't make up for the peripheral vision you lose because instead of being in a car you're staring at a small monitor from a couple of feet away. Like you, I'm prepared to sacrifice that peripheral vision for the greater immersion and accuracy of a view that places the camera inside the car. My point was simply that I can understand somebody who opted for a compromise in the other direction, i.e., chase view.

Pls dont think, that only oval racers use chase view.

As you can see in the public vote above, there are also some (well known) non-oval racers, who use chase view.

Quote from jtr99 :

Do you think your sarcastic tone is adding anything here?

Yes. It's adding entertainment. For me, anyway.

Learn to appreciate sarcasm.

For me, driving in chase view in LFS is closer to real life driving experience. Because of peripheral vision (trying to drive in cockpit gives me kinda half-blind feeling), + seeing back end of car compensates for not feeling forces. Also viewpoint is bit higher than other views, so I can see track better - can't use high resolutions with my not so high end hardware. So obviously I do drive in view that feels best for me.

But I don't go "muahahaha" about people who use other views.

Also I don't understand what has oval to do with this topic?

Quote from hackerx :

... seeing back end of car compensates for not feeling forces...

That´s the main reason for me. I drive RWD Cars IRL, FFB never gave me the feeling like it is if the back of your car tries to overtake you. If I see the tail of the car in LFS I can handle a drift and keep the car away from spinning. Driving in Cockpit view isn´t a problem in driving, but in saving the car in dangerous situations.


BTW: This thread has NOTHING to do with oval. But - like a friend sayed yesterday in ventrilo - maybe there are a lot of red lights in TC´s room and if he read the word "oval" in his forum, the lights will blink like crazy, a horn is blowing and a sign says: "Oval suckz! Tell everybody your opinion about!"

Quote from Crazy Harry :

BTW: This thread has NOTHING to do with oval. But - like a friend sayed yesterday in ventrilo - maybe there are a lot of red lights in TC´s room and if he read the word "oval" in his forum, the lights will blink like crazy, a horn is blowing and a sign says: "Oval suckz! Tell everybody your opinion about!"

Oh come on, don't flatter yourselves. It's just a single basic yellow warning light.

Quote from zeugnimod :

As you can see in the public vote above, there are also some (well known) non-oval racers, who use chase view.

or maybe they wanted to say +1 even if they dont use it? because thats the poll option thats lacking, and you can only say +1 if you say you use it

Hm.. after beiing abstinent for .. om.. 2 years or so...


WHERE IS MY MIRROR?

nice bump mate

LOL more like 4 years! WHERE'S MY MIRROR? hahaha I want it too, at least as an option!