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NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2769 posts, started )
The malicious lift-off-oversteer when driving the 1600 is gone now, what a pity. I really liked the way it was in step 3/3, the way you had to play with the throttle and brakes to go through the corners, always close to losing control.
Quote from GFresh :So last time i checked, we only had 2/3, so i downloaded 3/3 yesterday, and it's won't work. It freezes every time i try to get on track, at the same point, which is when it's loading "shadow.nko". Quite frustrating when every previous version of nKPro has worked just fine

Try to correct folder' permission if you have Windows 7/Vista and NKP is installed in "Program Files":

Right click on NKP folder -> Properties -> Security tab -> Edit (in the right of "To change permissions click edit") -> Choose "Users/..." in list -> check in "Full Control" and "Modify" -> click Apply and OK.

I had the same "freezes" issue and tip posted above helped me.
Just some thoughts:
  • Feels different than prev. version immediately.
  • Oversteer more recoverable by countersteering
  • FFB seems more forceful
  • Still feels odd with respect to entry/exit to oversteer
  • Once oversteer the car seems to slip forever...
  • ...then it regains grip in a very sudden manner...
  • ...then it snap spins in the other direction with seemingly no provocation....?
It just doesn't come naturally or control naturally the way LFS or real life does in grip-slide-recover.
Quote from lvlo :Try to correct folder' permission if you have Windows 7/Vista and NKP is installed in "Program Files":

Right click on NKP folder -> Properties -> Security tab -> Edit (in the right of "To change permissions click edit") -> Choose "Users/..." in list -> check in "Full Control" and "Modify" -> click Apply and OK.

I had the same "freezes" issue and tip posted above helped me.

Thanks, but i don't have it installed in Program Files.

Anyways, i have it working now, finally. A GPU driver re-install and yet another restart seemed to solve the problem...
Quote from Test Driver :The malicious lift-off-oversteer when driving the 1600 is gone now, what a pity. I really liked the way it was in step 3/3, the way you had to play with the throttle and brakes to go through the corners, always close to losing control.

Not played 1.1 yet (downloaded it last night, but not installed yet), but that is how the 1600 should be - a constant state of 4 wheel drifts, using the throttle to define the clipping and exit point as you turn in. If that has gone then it's immediately a step backwards.

I'll play in the F3 car and see if he's got that going nicely.
Quote from tristancliffe :I'll play in the F3 car and see if he's got that going nicely.

Just don't use your old setups... They can cause weird physics anomalies.

I found I had to use very different setup parameters than previously. I'm interested to know if Kunos is headed in the right direction, as I know you weren't impressed with that aspect previously.

Either way, I love the way the cars feel now. Mainly been testing the F2000 and I have it feeling great now. Beautifully controllable, and unlike Mattesa I find it behaves completely naturally, and I don't suffer form the "snapping" that he talks about. Probably a setup/wheel setup thing.
My opinions are based on the F1600 around Aosta, that's my control combo. Wheel setup is the same as ever, and the car setup is default.

I need to drive it more, but that's what came to mind.
Quote from tristancliffe :but that is how the 1600 should be - a constant state of 4 wheel drifts, using the throttle to define the clipping and exit point as you turn in. If that has gone then it's immediately a step backwards.

Not at all, in beta 3 the 1600 was totally undriftable and also completely unbelievable as a rookie car, only the 1800 was more difficult to handle...
Is there anyone that could host the netKar Pro v1.1 final package on an FTP, even just for one day.

A league I'm running in needs a direct download as their server wont download from any of the free filehosting sites.

Any help would be appreciated.
Problem solved. Thanks for the quick response!
Well the physics have certainly changed!

The tyres now have much more bite, and you can actually catch slides and drift the car in the demo
before it felt more like the 370z in the GT5 Time Trial

Nice and driveable, even with a Logitech dual stick control pad
Dish of the day on DrivingItalia: several people have been complaining about the steering wheel getting light on the F1600 when you apply more than some lock (a temporary solution has been found already)

Some sparks were sent flying when someone added the F1600 in 1.1 Final felt like an arcade game and that it was much better in Beta3 (which is just plain silliness). Kunos and Markus were obviously not happy with this and both took the chance to rant a bit about the community.

And while they do have a point (well Markus as usual overdid it...), it still does look like something is wrong with the 1600 (in my first 5min test I actually mistook it for weight being shifted back under acceleration...)

Including an old ChangeLog in the RC/Final bundle also contributed to more (avoidable) confusion. Things like this may look small but they all add up. Meh.

Back to the point, increasing the caster fixes the issue for the time being.
Quote from NightShift :

Back to the point, increasing the caster fixes the issue for the time being.

That really did the trick NightShift, thanks a lot I always wonder why these tweaks or rather interim solutions aren't posted in the official english forum over at Driving Italia. I guess it's better to learn some Italian
Better still, forget the 1600 altogether and get the 1800 out. It's amazing
Could someone record a lap or two?

I can't try it out 'till thursday and I'm getting little nervous
Quote from NightShift :Dish of the day on DrivingItalia: several people have been complaining about the steering wheel getting light on the F1600 when you apply more than some lock (a temporary solution has been found already)

Some sparks were sent flying when someone added the F1600 in 1.1 Final felt like an arcade game and that it was much better in Beta3 (which is just plain silliness). Kunos and Markus were obviously not happy with this and both took the chance to rant a bit about the community.

And while they do have a point (well Markus as usual overdid it...), it still does look like something is wrong with the 1600 (in my first 5min test I actually mistook it for weight being shifted back under acceleration...)

Including an old ChangeLog in the RC/Final bundle also contributed to more (avoidable) confusion. Things like this may look small but they all add up. Meh.

Back to the point, increasing the caster fixes the issue for the time being.

What were the complaints about and in what way did was it felt to be arcade?

What does the caster fix? The steering going light?
Surely the steering should go light, it has very little weight over the nose and is so light in general when you acc. out of corners the front unloads even more.
I'm loving the 1800 atm, i'm not very good in it, i can't seem to string 2 or 3 hotlaps together
What i like is, how severely you are punished for putting a foot wrong in it. Quite often during a lap, i'll go slightly wide and put a rear tyre just a fraction onto the grass (as i said, i'm not very good) and it's game over, trashed car.
So rewards in the feeling of acomplishment come in spades just getting a couple of laps together.
I must try this online at some point...
Quote from NightShift :Dish of the day on DrivingItalia: several people have been complaining about the steering wheel getting light on the F1600 when you apply more than some lock (a temporary solution has been found already)

Back to the point, increasing the caster fixes the issue for the time being.

No, this is not an issue to fix it is well done, the FF must go light at some steering lock if the caster is low enough, this is what theory says and what happens in real life.

The maximum grip is just around this point so real life drivers set the caster to feel this. This also happens in iracing

Unfortunately this is not well done in LFS so you cannot feel the grip, maybe in S3 I hope
Quote from Hoshimodo :I always wonder why these tweaks or rather interim solutions aren't posted in the official english forum over at Driving Italia. I guess it's better to learn some Italian

My impression is the english speaking nKp community is broken down on several different boards. While doing my searches I counted at least 4 or 5 different ones, and there are probably more.

If all these people somehow brought most or all of their netKar related discussion on DI I imagine things would become better.

Quote from Mattesa :in what way did was it felt to be arcade?

That was just someone venting his spleen, I suppose, but apparently it was enough to hurt the devs' feelings. As for the rest, it's all about the steer getting light on the '1600.

Quote from Pier nodoyuna :No, this is not an issue to fix it is well done, the FF must go light at some steering lock if the caster is low enough, this is what theory says and what happens in real life.

I think what makes people feel bad about this is the limited amount of lock you need apply to make it happen.

That however could make sense if Kunos tweaked something to reduce grip on the front axle.

He already mentioned reducing the engine brake on the 1600 so it is less problematic on downshifts and more approachable for demo users.

They are concerned about the 1600 being too hard for newcomers and scaring away people - it has been said already that eventually the demo car should be replaced by a small, modern formula with downforce, like the FBM - which they already have but can't release publicly because of their agreement with BRD.

They also implied KS could be in talks to license more cars after the 500, but all of this was back in late 2009.
Quote from NightShift :My impression is the english speaking nKp community is broken down on several different boards. While doing my searches I counted at least 4 or 5 different ones, and there are probably more.

If all these people somehow brought most or all of their netKar related discussion on DI I imagine things would become better.

I agree, but the problem is when RSC was the main forum for the English speaking community there was never any input from the devs unless a new version was released, then he appeared for a week and was never heard of again until the next release. Meanwhile he continued to post in Italian at DI.

I think the English speaking community gave up on communication with the Devs.

The English speaking forum is pretty dead at DI for that reason i suspect, and there is still very little input in that section from the devs, yet the Italian section is full of stuff we just dont understand, and the various translation sites are pretty useless.

Quite frankly the English speakers seem to feel they have been shunned by the team, so we tend to gather at GPC, R2P and Race Department and our team sites where we can only speculate on news and glean whatever info we can based on rubbish translations. It's far from ideal. If there had been an official English forum at DI from day 1, with some decent communication from the devs, we probably wouldn't be in the fractured state we are today.
Well I think NightShift makes a very valid point here especially since the official english forum is linked on the nkp main site for some time past. Will try to post more over there (and did so 2 minutes ago).
Yup you certainly have many good points, and it's no mystery Kunos has his quirks. He looks like an interesting company when he feels like talking, but mostly it seems he's just replying out of frustration - too often on the defensive and while it's not hard to imagine why, it only compounds the problem.

Isee no way out of this, other than to unite all those little pools of people in one single place where they can't be ignored. It does not have to be necessarily DI, but it looks like the most obvious candidate.

Quote from The Moose :there is still very little input in that section from the devs, yet the Italian section is full of stuff we just dont understand, and the various translation sites are pretty useless.

Yeah the auto translator is only good for a couple laughs though there's hardly a lot of activity on DI: I wouldn't be surprised if the Setup section of LFSforum even outdid the whole nKp branch on DI. And most of the posts in the italian boards comes from what is likely a dozen or so of regulars.
This evening's appetizer: now that Kunos has officially _not_ replied on the matter of caster on the 1600, the next round of discussion is centered on the 1800 which, according to some, is impossible to control in a spin and completely intolerant of curbs.

As a reply Kunos has posted this video of him having some ..."fun":

http://www.youtube.com/v/ad9mt ... mp;hl=it_IT&fs=1&
I like this guy in a strange way.

Can't imagine Scawan posting a video of him drifting just to show the community up lol.

NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2769 posts, started )