The online racing simulator
NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2767 posts, started )
I don't think the lack of content is an issue really, there's no point saying a perfect enigne will support anything, it may well do so but radically different car types don't just appear overnight, LFS seems to have gone more down the line of making a large amount of cars then worrying about the gaps later, hopefully nK won't go that way.

There are so many small details only relevant to race cars, some only to small single seaters, that LFS doesn't seem to simulate for example:

Gearboxes seem totally random - 1600/1800 cars will have 4/5 spd Hewland boxes with straight cut gears and integral racing clutch. Larger cars will have 6 speed sequential boxes.

Clutches - seemingly overlooked in both real life/sim racing can make a big difference - the smaller cars could have either road or race clutches fitted integrally to the gearbox, bigger cars would be on racing clutches.

Dry sumps.

Car construction - carbon tubs for the faster cars, tubular for the FF, makes a huge difference to stiffness (not even simulated in LFS). This is something that probably explains more than you think about why the LXs handle oddly and would suddenly stop all this bollocks that Minis are faster with the roof chopped off.

Collisons - I think Tristan commented that he feared there may not be any visual body damage far more important is the damage to wings/suspension/overlapping wheels single seaters never get away with the sort of contact seen on a regular basis in LFS races.

Gravel traps - hopefully it will finally be a sim where you can't get out of them.

Bending valves - this is particuarly relevant if the 1600 is a CVH, bending valves as a result of over revving is a real problem in these cars, easilly done by missing a gear and the H pattern cars are never changed by flatshifting.

Sensible tire compounds - seeing as they've worked with Avon hopefully we'll see sensible compounds that are acctually raced with rather than these super soft tires like the R1s (which are really more like hillclimbing tires).

Bedding the engine in - Hopefully this won't be simulated as it will take extra time but some very slight randomness in the condition of the engine could be good, real racing cars have good days and bad days and certainly can't be run at full pace from a fresh build as they seem to be in all sims atm.
Quote from ajp71 :Gearboxes seem totally random - 1600/1800 cars will have 4/5 spd Hewland boxes with straight cut gears and integral racing clutch. Larger cars will have 6 speed sequential boxes.

I assume you mean LFS is random here? And I agree - it needs more fixed gear ratios, specific diffs for each car, so you can't put locked diffs on cars that would never have them etc.
Quote from ajp71 :Clutches - seemingly overlooked in both real life/sim racing can make a big difference - the smaller cars could have either road or race clutches fitted integrally to the gearbox, bigger cars would be on racing clutches.

not sure how this would effect it. Sure it'll make the cars easier to stall and faster to rev etc, but with autoclutch on, as the majority of simracers have to do until cost effective 3 pedal setups become common, then it won't make much difference. Would like to see it modelled though
Quote from ajp71 :Dry sumps.

Again, not really useful, more a 'flashy feature' thing. Modelling oil surge and aeration just aren't possible in real time.
Quote from ajp71 :Car construction - carbon tubs for the faster cars, tubular for the FF, makes a huge difference to stiffness (not even simulated in LFS). This is something that probably explains more than you think about why the LXs handle oddly and would suddenly stop all this bollocks that Minis are faster with the roof chopped off.

Scawen's already said he wants to model chassis flex at some point, and indeed will have to if karts are ever going to be implemented even vaguely closely.
Quote from ajp71 :Collisons - I think Tristan commented that he feared there may not be any visual body damage far more important is the damage to wings/suspension/overlapping wheels single seaters never get away with the sort of contact seen on a regular basis in LFS races.

I think performance relating damage is more important than visual stuff overall, but the LFS way requires the visual stuff to be 'finalised' first before the performance effects of that damage can be modelled. But nKP with it's wheel tethers (how does wheels landing in the cockpit), damage from contact and punctures, and visible tyre conditions is a very good looking system, and hopefully will become a defacto standard for sims.
Quote from ajp71 :Gravel traps - hopefully it will finally be a sim where you can't get out of them.

agree 1000000%
Quote from ajp71 :Bending valves - this is particuarly relevant if the 1600 is a CVH, bending valves as a result of over revving is a real problem in these cars, easilly done by missing a gear and the H pattern cars are never changed by flatshifting.

I'd hope Junos has more taste than to model shitty CVH (Change Valves Hopelessly) engines And again, a nice effect I guess, but you'd only notice a loss of performace, so the actual valves never need to be modelled. Wonder if the cars in nK will have a rev-limiter as in LFS or are only limited by the throttle and con-rod MTS?
Quote from ajp71 :Sensible tire compounds - seeing as they've worked with Avon hopefully we'll see sensible compounds that are acctually raced with rather than these super soft tires like the R1s (which are really more like hillclimbing tires).

Yeah, you would have to hope the tyre modelling is good, but I think that's LFS's trump card (low speed and grip recovery issues aside), and nK will have it's work cut out to beat it. Especially as nK doesn't have the rubber movement modelled and visible like LFS which actually helps a lot in several ways if you ask me.
Quote from ajp71 :Bedding the engine in - Hopefully this won't be simulated as it will take extra time but some very slight randomness in the condition of the engine could be good, real racing cars have good days and bad days and certainly can't be run at full pace from a fresh build as they seem to be in all sims atm.

I'd quite like this idea, especially for leagues, but part of the fun of online racing is the equality of the cars, so it's driver vs driver... But if it was only a lbft or two then that's okay, although the actual effect would be nigligable anyway.
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(sil3ntwar) DELETED by sil3ntwar
Quote from tristancliffe :Sure it'll make the cars easier to stall and faster to rev etc, but with autoclutch on, as the majority of simracers have to do until cost effective 3 pedal setups become common, then it won't make much difference. Would like to see it modelled though

It won't make a radical difference to lap times or how the car feels to drive. just an example of the little details that all add up to make a big difference between road/race cars and why even running the same engine in a relatively low tech race car requires a major rewrite of code.
Perfomance with the following configuration:
AMD 2600 XP (2Ghz)
1GB RAM DDR
ATI 9600 Pro 128


That'll be me max'ing out at 3 frames per minute then, just like one of them old flicker books :splat:

bugger :banghead:
Hehe... netKar's slogan seems to be "professional online racing simulation"...and LFS has "online racing simulation", maybe our devs shoud change it to "the online racing simulation"
Quote from Kunos :
I decided to give a "guaranteed" system and not a "minimum" for this pre order stage, which is higher than the "minimum" spec.
but nKPro will work on any machine able to run v0.9.9 Namie.

Keiran
Quote from VALE 46 :What are you on about .... http://www.netkar-pro.com/ita/images/requirements.jpg

Got spec from Deggis, "post 22"

I'm max'ing out at 30fps online with LFS, sometime's drops to single figure's at start of race with a full field.

We aint all got high end PC's yunno, and my graphics card was very cheap (£11 from Ebay) and very nasty, (get fps problems with GPL)

Think i'll try the demo first to see if it can handle it, before i buy.
^^ Deggis was saying that system ran nK great.

Any word yet on the possibility of addon tracks, a system of vetting like in namie would be great but it might put them in a tricky position if they are officially condoning unlisenced tracks.

OT: I'm going to order an ATi Radeon 9600 Pro All in Wonder anyway .

And thinking about a Track IR, which is the best to look at (intrested in LFS, GPL, N2003, nK Pro) is it worth the extra for the 6 DOF or is 2 really enough (seeing as LFS only supports 2 anyway)?
Maybe your graphics card is "broken" in someway.
AMD64 3200
1GB RAM
9800XT

my computer runs LFS at about 60-90 all the time, and our PCs arent that different really.

CPU - 1,7Ghz or higher
RAM - 512Mb
GPU - ATI 9600pro / nVidia 5900 or higher
SND - Build in soundcard
HDD - 1GB free space
OS - 100% Win2K/XP

BTW these are [apparently] recommended system requirements, so..
I am quite happy to see that the release is coming soon, but I'd rather wait for some demo than to be pressured in a pre-release purchase......

Even though the promo video did not show much action with the cars, it still looked very odd to me (physics wise) :zombie: So I'd much rather test it myself before I could possibly get ripped off from a pre-release.
Sorry Vale, i guess i didnt explain properly....

The specs i listed were from Deggis's post, there not from my PC,
at the moment I'm using:-
Amd 1600+
256 RAM
64mb geforce MX 200

but i didnt really wanna say it out load, coz its kinda embarrasing yunno

Although i should have my other PC back within a month or two, as long as the ex hasnt sold it !, . It'll easily run Netkar, but, i really wanted to have a go as soon as it's released, and get as much practise in as poss, coz i dont fancy being a "tail end charlie" online
Quote from Tweaker :I am quite happy to see that the release is coming soon, but I'd rather wait for some demo than to be pressured in a pre-release purchase......
...

You mean like an alpha release?
Yea, hopefully we'll see a proper in-game video before its released, but the damage looks impressive at the end of the promo.

OK mazz now i understand what you mean But you should wait for the demo to see how it runs, someone said that if you can run Nk Namie then you can run Nk Pro, so you should check out the original Nk.
I wasn't saying anything about how it runs, just quoted a post from here: http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... p=2839922&postcount=5

and Kunos said:
"I decided to give a "guaranteed" system and not a "minimum" requirements for this pre order stage, which is higher than the "minimum" spec. but nKPro will work on any machine able to run v0.9.9 Namie."

I have almost the same specs as in the rscnet post so it was good news for me too. I'm not that surprised about the low requirements, from the screenshots it doesn't look so special but when top-notch graphics were the most important thing in a sim. And it's probably as rock solid code as LFS which runs also well on low systems.

And I pre-ordered it 10 mins ago.
^^ I'd disagree with that statement, LFS runs great when there are few other cars in view.

On the start I get 10 fps at best with 1024 x 768 and low detials (could be set a lot higher were it not for the CPUs needs for the first 20 secs) on a system that (minus the graphics card) should have no problems:

2.8 ghz P4
512 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9000
Well, I have AXP2200+/1GB/9500Pro. That should be called as low specs, of course your specs are just much lower (too low, 512 RAM isn't just enough today). I can run LFS 1024x768/4xFSAA/4xAF, with casual racing situations I get 30-60 FPS, on the start it goes to 20 fps but that's not a problem for me. I'd say LFS runs well on low systems.
Kunos has posted saying that the specs on the website are the specs of the machine which was used to take the screenshots

Keiran
Release date: April 10th
First day of exams: April 10th
Bugger. Won't stop them from getting my monies though.
Quote from deggis :Well, I have AXP2200+/1GB/9500Pro. That should be called as low specs, of course your specs are just much lower (too low, 512 RAM isn't just enough today).

Your computer really isn't that low spec, there's no reason why a sim shouldn't be able to run on a much lower spec computer (I can get good FPS with 42 cars online in N2003 on high details, which looks better than LFS IMO). I know LFS simulates the physics of all cars to avoid lag and whilst it does work well do we really need to simulate all the cars? Why on earth does my computer need to calculate physics for a car 20 cars ahead of me, I'm very unlikely to suffer if he has a bit of visual lag. Mixing physical calculations for close cars and simply having cars in the distance position sent from the server seems the only sensible way to do it IMO.
Quote from ajp71 :^^ I'd disagree with that statement, LFS runs great when there are few other cars in view.

On the start I get 10 fps at best with 1024 x 768 and low detials (could be set a lot higher were it not for the CPUs needs for the first 20 secs) on a system that (minus the graphics card) should have no problems:

2.8 ghz P4
512 MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9000

Ok, your graphics card isn't very good, I'll grant you that... I can play LfS without any problems (on big starts maybe 20 FPS) at the same specs as deggis on a Athlon XP1800+ (that's 1533 MHz),768 MB RAM and a Radeon 9600... So, why on earth can't you get decent FPS from a game, that is said to be bound to CPU, if yours is twice the power of mine?
Quote from bbman :2.8GHz P4 ... Athlon XP1800+ ... yours is twice the power of mine?

I disagree

(Emphasis is on Pentium)


No seriously ajp71, your Radeon 9000 is probably responsible for your shitty fps at start.
Indeed. Get a new GFX card and double your memory.
Quote from deggis :Indeed. Get a new GFX card

Ordered a 9600 Pro

NetKar Pro [v1.3 released]
(2767 posts, started )
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