Quote from Kalev EST :

So you're saying more content and features at this point would be a bad thing? Now who's being silly?

I'm not being silly man. Have you ever heard of politics, economics, market and human psychology, please find the core of my post!

I'm saying we wouldn't enjoy those features very much if they're not almost perfect, if they were full of bugs. I think we all agree what we're looking for here is almost perfect race simulator and devs are trying to builds it for us, but that takes time and it's one factor that we have to deal with.
Plus this whole thing about chasing perfection slowly is good for other reasons that I've already elaborated up there.

Quote from senn :

Has the last one gone emo?

it has gone cutting his vains and moaning instead of having fun and "cutting" corners
nic idea Kid...it exactly represents what is happening in lfs community

Quote from flymike91 :

***k you, fanboy

Seriously, though there is no reason for development to be this slow. If money is the issue, do the devs not realize that people would pay right now for any new content? I could round up at least 100 forum users who would be glad to pay $10 for the scirocco to be done, or for Rockingham to be completed, or...anything. Anything at all. Is time the issue? What else are they working on? Most people work from 9-5 and still manage to do some of the other things they want to do. Again, money is a great motivator for someone to get to work and they could have money flowing in by tonight if they wanted. I believe they are simply no longer interested in lfs and would like to stop working on it, but there is too much bitching on the forums to ignore. If we all just stopped expecting updates lfs could die a peaceful, quiet death. I stopped playing lfs and moved on to better, more modern sims. Shouldn't we all?

Who's the fanboy here? Crying over your fav game. Get a life If you moved on from LFS why are you still typing in the forums? You just need someone to blame, cause ur pissed off from the fact that there have been no serious updates for so long.

Yes I agree development speed is slow, but LFS is what the devs do in their spare time. It used to be a primary job, but that was back in the days when there were progress reports every month and updates were much bigger back then.

Idea of an update back in the ol' days: Blackwood/South city facelift, FBM, New interiors for XF/XR cars

Idea of an update today: Asian translations, shift light removal, little grey arrow in the pitlane, new car shadows which are pretty much the same.

Quote from Tomba(FIN) :

You're retarted if you believe in that 2012 crap.

And you are retarded if you think you have to qoute the person right over you.

Ofcourse, I do not believe in that 2012 shit. I wasn't serious.

Probably dead t´but could might aswell be alive and well... so will "counterstrike 1.6" that game was outdated by 2003-2004 and is still having alot of players, same with LFS...

The reason why the patch is delaying may be that they are simply working on more content than we know of... they already said that rockingham and "another" car(not the scirocco) will be s3 content. That probably means they are working on s3 at the moment. We know very little about s3 maybe a massive GFX update like s1-s2, and more features we know nothing about.

Just stop being so damn negative and think the devs have forgotten LFS, they still make to much money on LFS to just leave it be. Like said working on s2 content along side s3 content is probably what tehy are doing, and i really think thats the case since it takes so long to develop a game and they are only 3 doing it... they probably been working on s3 for a good while if they have released some "faqs" about it.

Quote from bavorak :

nic idea Kid...it exactly represents what is happening in lfs community

Haha, i did it just for the lolz, when i saw that picture early this year. Couldn't know, it can get this real.
I still believe, but until then iRace.

im sure i wont be playing anymore, i am not allowed on servers cause they say i dont have enough internets.... i might then just head over to gt5p

Quote from chavm481 :

i dont have enough internets

Ever thought there was only one,but what do i know .. .

LFS at this rate will be 0.6A in ten years all you need is a larger development team and your lives would be so much easier!

its like time, an idea you think, but not touch.

Warning, this became a pretty long post.
If you are not interested in the discussion that has been started in here apart from the "in ten years stuff", jump to [JumpSite 2].
My personal opinion can be found under [JumpSite 1].
To all the others, have fun reading and replying.

a) I bet almost every moaner here has at least one car, he has barley driven, or a track config on which he/she has done just a few laps.
If you put it together, LFS has an incredible amount of combos to try, but most drivers just stick to their usual combos and start moaning..

Get on a server with an unusal combo and start driving. Just drive around the track, get used to the car, learn the breaking points and stuff. No hotlapping yet, just simulate you get in a real car the first time and drive around an empty track. It can be a thrill with any car.

b) Many people here moan about the little fixes like languange support. Well, a language pack can be done by native speakers and be included in a day or two, so that is something you can do besides your main work-life no problem. And it is exactly those tiny little things, that get the devs a little extra money as it opens up new markets of players.

c) The Barrier/Physics Bugs: Well, for a University Project we once started developing a simple Driving "Simulator". I know first hand, that it is pretty difficult to deal with such a thing as a Physics-Bug.
We implemented an Editor with which you can place objects in the world. A Barrier you can Place in the Editor is simply a different story than the fix Barriers denoting a track.

It is something your Physics Engine produces. It is not dealt with in a week, as it can require massive restructuring and sometimes even a complete rewrite of the Physics Engine.

d) Bugs
You bought an S1/S2 licence for not even an beta Version of a game that in the current state works pretty flawlessly. I mean, I bought full developed games (at much higher prices) that had a lot more bugs and a lot more bugs that lower the fun of the game and constrain the functionality. Then one or maybe two patches were released that didn't solve a thing and the game was declared final and the next part of the series is produced...

Cause no money comes in from releasing patches..

and yes, this goddamn ****ing world runs on money. I hate that also, but at this point of time, I can't do a thing about it. That will change 2012of course , but that's not now yet....

The only major bug I can detect in LFS that constrains the functionality is the Barrier/Physics/Collision Thing. But hey:

1. Collisions between cars are naturally influenced by Lag. You will find that in any game and yes, the fact that LFS is peer to peer does not make it better. But hey, you knew that prior to buying the License, and if you didn't, well, tough shit as 510n3d has already said. The ones who can read have a clear advantage.

2. Barrier
I don't really see the problem with the Barriers really... You are not supposed to hit them. Imagine you are sitting in a real car. You would drive a lot more careful, as hitting a barrier would cost you a lot of money. Just consider that when driving in LFS. It even increases the fun and immersion of realism IMHO.

(I for example, like to get on our Fun Server, choose a combo for an hour of qualification, exit the pits and try not to have to shift+p (that is not to wreck the car) the whole time (of course for setup changes, but I DRIVE to pit-boxes first then).. Try it out, it is a lot of fun)

e) Speed of development:
As said earlier, you bought a license to an alpha version of the game (alright the not so long members for a beta... is it beta already.. dunno actually). You agreed to the game as it was. Everything else coming for free is a gift to you.. (Yes, that was said earlier.. had to mention it again, though).
If you don't like it, get lost.

The devs develop the game at their speed, as it is their piece of software. They own it. You only bought a license to use it. Remember that. The devs decide what they do with the software. And if they decide tomorrow that they stop developing and supporting it, tough shit, nothing you can do about it, get a life..

f) Opening up the game for mod-development (rFactor-Style):
Look at the server list in rFactor. There are about a million of servers with about 500 000 different mods/tracks running, and I cannot join a single one of them, because I don't have the mod and cannot find a server, that is running the mod/mods I have. I played rFactor for 2 or 3 months, almost never found a good server to play on, uninstalled it and have not touched it since.. IMO rFactor is more dead than LFS is.

[JumpSite 1]
g) I personally think, that when they came to finish the Scirocco last year, they realised, that the current state of the game can not support the improvement they were ready to implement in the game. So they had two choices:

1. They could implement it on a sloppy basis, just to have it work for the moment and have people then moan about flaws it includes (like the whole engine has with the Barrier Bug) or

2. They could postpone the whole thing, strip the game-engine down to the essential parts and basically start from scratch with all the knowledge they earned in the past years of development. That of course can not be done in a couple of months.
The outcome then might be S3. With all the stuff you guys ever wished for. Day/Night Racing, Rain, No Barrier Bug, New Cars, new Tracks, etc.pp

I personally vote for the second one. Even if I would have to pay again then. I'll gladly do it, cause the couple of bucks I payed for LFS have paid them off in over a thousand hours of fantastic racing experience. IMO LFS is much more valuable than the money a license costs.

[JumpSite 2]
So, to sum it up, I think in ten years from now we will have S3 with more cars and tracks, night racing, rain and a lot more to come. It will be the best simulator out there, as the devs are highly dedicated in achieving that, no matter how long it takes. Or we might not. That is up to Eric, Victor and Scawen.

PS to Plaztik: I totally agree, but this post is totally way too long already to even start scratching your post here.. Sorry.. We can have a chat about that on vent... oh no TS3 that is...

PPS. Merry Christmas to you all and like we in Germany say: Guten Rutsch!

"a) I bet almost every moaner here has at least one car, he has barley driven, or a track config on which he/she has done just a few laps.
If you put it together, LFS has an incredible amount of combos to try, but most drivers just stick to their usual combos and start moaning.."


FFS stop using these same tired hackneyed excuses , LFS is an alpha, you haven't driven all the combos, the Devs work at etc etc ..

I have been playing/driving LFS since 2003 and i,m more sick to death of these tired excuses than the pace of development , seriously i admire your loyalty to the Dev team but after six years plus that shit just doesn't cut it anymore.


And back on topic , in ten years time who is going to care?

Quote from Kalev EST :

Pretty much the same, except for almost noone would play it anymore.

Quote from richo :

FFS stop using these same tired hackneyed excuses , LFS is an alpha, you haven't driven all the combos, the Devs work at etc etc ..

It is not an excuse, but a fact...

Quote from richo :

I have been playing/driving LFS since 2003 [...] but after six years plus that shit just doesn't cut it anymore.

Then, like you say FFS, get the f*** out of here and have a look at different games.. or, get a life

Quote from Torben :

Warning,.......................... Merry Christmas to you all and like we in Germany say: Guten Rutsch!

OMG dude........ Are you a dev? I can only agree with Merry Christmas.....

****Back 2 Topic****
Maybe we have CMX Viewer-Boby Painter 0.8A

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

Yes I agree development speed is slow, but LFS is what the devs do in their spare time.

Are you sure about that? This is the first time I've seen that said. I always thought that Scawen lived off the money from S2 licenses. I'm sure Eric and Victor have other jobs as their involvement in LFS is much smaller than Scawen's.

Quote from Torben :

(...) a) I bet almost every moaner here has at least one car, he has barley driven, or a track config on which he/she has done just a few laps.
If you put it together, LFS has an incredible amount of combos to try, but most drivers just stick to their usual combos and start moaning..

While you are right that LFS offers a great amount of interesting combinations, it's silly to expect that everyone drives every car an equal amount. It's only normal that some people will prefer a certain type of car. There's people who don't like driving singleseaters while there are other people who only drive singleseaters. That's just the type of cars they like to drive, and you can't say "hey, you have no right to be bored, you haven't driven the UF1 or any of the tin tops yet!".

And I bet you haven't done many - if any - laps on Westhill in the UF1, either, to give just one example Some combos just don't work.

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

Yes I agree development speed is slow, but LFS is what the devs do in their spare time. It used to be a primary job, but that was back in the days when there were progress reports every month and updates were much bigger back then.

What?

What is their primary job now then? The reason the development speed is lower is because they are developing it to a whole new standard of detail.

Compare the interior textures and modelling of the VWS with the RB4, for example. They're re-writing the entire tyre model to be more accurate, because they VWS brought up some problems that show flaws in the model.

Compared to the standard of the releases in the last couple of years and the WIP stuff now, the older releases of LFS were a bit of a bodge job, to be honest.

Regarding Eric, all the people who think he is just twiddling his thumbs just because there are no graphical releases recently must be stupid. Just because stuff isn't being released, doesn't mean he isn't working on it.

I agree with Torben, when it comes to development times, some of us have been around alot longer than others and have seen it all before, LFS has never had any deadlines, infact the whole project was probably born because 3 talented individuals wanted to get away from the deadline/crunchtime way of working, that often results in large SW companys releasing buggy games.
Sure LFS has a few longstanding bugs, thats why the devs have kept it alpha, but as it is its one of the best, most playable sim/games in the market.
Its cheaper and better than many so called "sims" supports more translations (a good thing for future sales) has plenty of content to keep me happy until the next stage of development.

in 10 years I hope it will still be in development, and we will have acess to whatever version of S2 or S3 that Scawen & co decide is good enough to release, its thier game and I think they are most qualified to decide when and what to release to us.

Edit: BTW people complaining about "steering colums" and "forum posts" in that picture site someone linked to, are just childish IMO
SD.

The problem is, the devs refuse to have a timeline. So they don't feel pressure to continue, and the result is, nothing happening or at least at a very slow rate. I experience the same for myself, if I don't HAVE to, it results in not doing it at all.
In my opinion, if Scawen can work on tire physics full time, it should have been possible to finish it in 2 or 3 months. I think he's only working on it when he wants to and that is perhaps only a few hours a week. I'm afraid he lost his drive to develop LFS, and LFS will silently die....

I doubt it could be their primary job. They can't live on S2 licence money.

well in my calculations each dev got about 300000 pounds in 7 years, could u live with that?

Quote from obsolum :

While you are right that LFS offers a great amount of interesting combinations, it's silly to expect that everyone drives every car an equal amount. It's only normal that some people will prefer a certain type of car. There's people who don't like driving singleseaters while there are other people who only drive singleseaters. That's just the type of cars they like to drive, and you can't say "hey, you have no right to be bored, you haven't driven the UF1 or any of the tin tops yet!".

And I bet you haven't done many - if any - laps on Westhill in the UF1, either, to give just one example Some combos just don't work.

I agree with you, that you cannot expect that everyone drives every car. I have not done it.
You are right with your bet, I haven't driven a single lap in the UF1 on Westhill, because the car is way too slow for that fast track for my liking.

That is not what I wanted to say. Sorry if it came out wrong, it was late :P

What I mean is, that people cry that they want new content, when they haven't tried at least a decent amount of the content that is there. Just because you don't like the content that is there (e.g. front-wheel driven cars) does not mean, that there is no content. There is. It is just content that doesn't suit your likings. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just use the content you like to use. But please don't come on the forums and bitch around that you are bored with the content, while there is alot more content you haven't tried. Use another sim to satisfy your boredom..

Fair enough, that's a good point

Quote from e.M :

well in my calculations each dev got about 300000 pounds in 7 years, could u live with that?

Not really, no.

Not for Scawen anyway, he has a family with 2 kids so....