Ok what's the deal with Bump Drafters? I don't get why the collision detection doesn't count that lap as invalid for touching another car when it happens, or does it? I dunno, that's just straight cheating to me.

There should be something to detect when it happens, like a car hitting the rear bumper of another car multiple times in a short time period, say after 5 seconds of it.

The car in front can say hey, he was trying to hit me off the track, if that were the case, they would hit you from the side, not the back. Also the laptime should be invalid when counted as a PB.

The car in the back should also be penalized, say, a 30 sec. penalty, or pit drive through. Yeah the car in back can say he slammed on the brakes intentionally.

All I can say is bump drafting is cheating, go ahead and laugh to the ones doing it, it only shows you gotta cheat to get where others can without cheating.

Just an opinion. Cheaters never prosper, and always get caught.

You cant have more than two people in hotlapping mode, and hotlapping in multiplayer doesnt really work and wont count towards world record charts.

So yeah

A PB is no WR. The whole bump drafting business will solve itself once LFS gets a proper damage model. IMHO bump drafting itself is not cheating, the following car can carrie more momentum into the collision, propelling the leading car forward. However, the forces involved would cause significant damage to both cars, making this not only impractical but plain suicidal in reality.

Don't know if it's really physically correct though, just kind of makes sense to me.

lol sorry maybe I should rephrase what I'm upset about. My bad lol, it's Bump drafting on the multiplayer mode, and from what I saw, I dunno if it counts or not, but th new PB time says it does. Not just that, people have been using it to win races in a few I've seen.

I just wish there was a way to DQ people that use that tactic is all, yeah they can get away with it, but shouldn't ya know. lol My bad, I should have said that too.

Bumdrafting is something existing in real life, you like or you don't, but I don't see why you say it's cheating. Yeeeees, maybe with proper arguments you could pretend it's unfair in case of couple of drivers from the same team cruising around by pushing eachothers(we've seen some on the round 5 of the iTCC), but saying it's cheating is just non-sence.

Also, I guess it's up to the admins of the server/league to allow it or not.

And, a PB means nothing, as there's too many ways to fake them. That's why there's no PB chart. So there's absolutely no point to introduce a system "not counting a PB in case of bumpdrafting"

E : There's been a nice(but quite rough) discussion about that subject here : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=58478&page=2

Dump brafting isnt cheating, its team work! Oh yeah would like to laugh at those oval servers, getting penalized all the time mwahaha :bump:

go solo

Yeah it's a tactic that came out of Nascar, which has always been a contraversial one. Nascar has lots of backwards rules, they make the cars adhere to strict limitations, but allow the cars to touch and crash each other as their motto goes "rubbing is racing".

I'm like no it isn't if you touch wheel to wheel in formula cars, both cars are gonna crash most likely.

bump drafting is just one of those things you see others do, shake your head, then think to yourself "damn cheaters". lol

Quote from Pablo Donoso :

Yeah it's a tactic that came out of Nascar, which has always been a contraversial one. Nascar has lots of backwards rules, they make the cars adhere to strict limitations, but allow the cars to touch and crash each other as their motto goes "rubbing is racing".

I'm like no it isn't if you touch wheel to wheel in formula cars, both cars are gonna crash most likely.

bump drafting is just one of those things you see others do, shake your head, then think to yourself "damn cheaters". lol

Yeh, I don't think it's against the rules, although it make one hell of a difference with your Laptime for sure! I must admit, I have done it on LFS and karting, although when someone is doing it to me I don't like the fact were so close and the driver behind could wipe me out easily enough by mistake. It's good fun in close races - especially when your working with someone to catch up the pack in front :Eyecrazy:

It's annoying, but only when you're the one hung out to dry. I personally think it's a legitimate strategy, the only time it's bad is when a noob tries to bump draft you into a braking zone and pushes you off. Also, if the collision detection and damage were better then we would see more of it, because at the moment the risk is being caught out by a dodgy lag collision, eliminate that risk and you wouldn't really damage your car much, since both of you are going roughly the same speed.

You might want to try something else than just oval racing, like turning to right for a change. and no, not talking about oval reversed.

And even if was only the oval that rows your boat, they really, like really do it in real life too. So why not in lfs?

Quote from Pablo Donoso :

Yeah it's a tactic that came out of Nascar, which has always been a contraversial one. Nascar has lots of backwards rules, they make the cars adhere to strict limitations, but allow the cars to touch and crash each other as their motto goes "rubbing is racing".

That's more of a motto for BTCC now these days as I think the modern NASCAR is too strict on contact. Remember Tony Stewart's penalty when he swearved into Clint Bowyer? Ya...excuse me NASCAR but NO ONE TAKES OUT SOMEONE by side swiping them like that. :rolleyes: But regarding BTCC, you have Jason Plato's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNtQsIa2Nw. And he even used the "rubbin' racing" as a justification for his horrid conduct...I mean wtf...seriously

Touching is just a part of closed wheel racing, stock car, touring car, etc. Only exception to that would probably be Le Mans but I have seen prototypes bash into each other before without any consequences and let's not forget about Jamie Melo bashing his Ferrarri into Jorg Bergmeister's Flying Lizard Porsche to take the 12H Sebring win. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjWo8VdMb8I) Dirty? Maybe by open wheel standards...But just the nature of closed wheel racing.

Quote from Pablo Donoso :

bump drafting is just one of those things you see others do, shake your head, then think to yourself "damn cheaters". lol

Hardly...when I see bump drafting I think "damm, too bad I dont have a teammate that's good enough to bumpdraft without spinning me out or messing up his line". Again, contact is just a part of closed wheel racing no matter what you open wheel pansies say

Quote from Jonesy_ :

You might want to try something else than just oval racing, like turning to right for a change. and no, not talking about oval reversed.

And even if was only the oval that rows your boat, they really, like really do it in real life too. So why not in lfs?

Right? What is this right you speak of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2-Yl2Yr8xo

Is that cheating? Short answer, no.

Like others are saying the PB that you see don't set times on the WR charts. To set times for World Records you have to go in the hot lapping mode. No one is getting cheated out of their WR by someone bump drafting online. Check out FM-Failure's Kyoto Ring Oval PBs, especially the FZR, FBM, FO8 and BF1. Look how his PB says "WR-diff -0:02.910". That means that his PB is almost 3 seconds faster than the HLVC (Hot Lap Validity Check) approved best lap. The actual WR was done with only one car on the track (in fact you can download the replay from LFSWorld) so no bump drafting involved.

Of course bump drafting in formula cars is only possible due to the shortcomings in LFS damage model, but that will eventually be fixed. Until then you should just join in and enjoy the ride.

Bump drafting is certainly a part of stock car racing and probably touring car racing as well. It's not cheating and it has nothing to do with time trial type racing or lapping.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Right? What is this right you speak of?

I think it's when you go around an oval backwards.

Quote from pik_d :

Of course bump drafting in formula cars is only possible due to the shortcomings in LFS damage model, but that will eventually be fixed. Until then you should just join in and enjoy the ride.

This actually does annoy me and hopefully the damage model will be improved in the near future.

In my opinion,bump drafting is not cheating ONLY IF IT IS DONE PROPERLY.like if you are 5th and back say,3 seconds,then bump drafting will make both cars catch up eventually,as long as the cars in front are far enough apart that they cant draft eachother.also,it shouldnt be classified 'cheating' if you are anywhere on the track in any position,racing with another racer,if you are doing it cleanly,like,not doin it with enough velocity to take him/her out,hitting in the sides,or damaging both cars and making the person you are bumping feel uncomfortable.and yes,bump drafting is okay in NASCAR because they have body shells that prevent wheel to wheel contact,and they are harder to damage than open wheel cars.but,in lfs it is okay, again,if you do it properly.however,i do agree with some of the posts on this thread like,noobs shouldnt be doing it,lap traffic shuld not be doing it,and it should not be done with any intentionton,in any way,of harming another racer and lastly,it should not be done to anyone who looks unstable or asks anyone to stop.

Quote from Pablo Donoso :

Yeah it's a tactic that came out of Nascar,

Actually that's not true. It's actually came from the Archer Brothers in the SCCA Sportruck series during the late 1980s. It was first made famous in ARCA by Frank Kimmel and NASCAR drivers started using it after Kimmel. But since NASCAR is so well known people assume that bump drafting came out of NASCAR and oval racing when in fact it didn't.

So in essence it's a tactic that came out of an SCCA touring trucks series (a discipline that never took off for some reason)

Quote from lizardfolk :

This actually does annoy me and hopefully the damage model will be improved in the near future.

I'm fairly certain that the formula cars are eventually getting an update where the (front?) wings can brake off if they're damaged (too much?). I can't back this up because I don't know where I would even find the quote, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly.

Quote from pik_d :

I'm fairly certain that the formula cars are eventually getting an update where the (front?) wings can brake off if they're damaged (too much?). I can't back this up because I don't know where I would even find the quote, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly.

Hullef#$ingllujah!!!!

(BTW touring trucks: http://www.rangerpowersports.c ... m/showthread.php?t=245597)

Bump drafting isn't cheating, it's just a tactic... I know it's been said a million times but still..

It happens in real life racing which allows it like karting, touring cars, NASCAR, etc. In things like formula cars obviously you won't see them doing that in real cars because they'd just break into peices. So in the case of formula cars bump drafting in LFS, well I think its just taking advantage of LFS' damage model...

I don't see it as cheating because its allowed in real life racing except that in some cases the cars don't allow it. I'm sure that if F1 cars COULD bump draft (and stay close enough to even have a chance at bump drafting) they would...

I've seen bump drafting many times in racing, not just in Nascar. The problem with drafting that close is that you don't get enough air through the radiator, the car will overheat very quickly.

As LFS progresses we will see drafting techniques progress as well, and they will fall in line with the way its done in real life.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

It's annoying, but only when you're the one hung out to dry. I personally think it's a legitimate strategy, the only time it's bad is when a noob tries to bump draft you into a braking zone and pushes you off. Also, if the collision detection and damage were better then we would see more of it, because at the moment the risk is being caught out by a dodgy lag collision, eliminate that risk and you wouldn't really damage your car much, since both of you are going roughly the same speed.

Yup what you said, really.

Quote from DragonCommando :

I've seen bump drafting many times in racing, not just in Nascar. The problem with drafting that close is that you don't get enough air through the radiator, the car will overheat very quickly.

Yeh, overheating is a major issue with bumpdrafting as bumpdrafting isn't just mindlessly slamming into the back of someone and unfortunately engine temperature isn't a factor in LFS

Quote from DragonCommando :

I've seen bump drafting many times in racing, not just in Nascar. The problem with drafting that close is that you don't get enough air through the radiator, the car will overheat very quickly.

As LFS progresses we will see drafting techniques progress as well, and they will fall in line with the way its done in real life.

yh ive even seen legends bumpdraft lol

Quote from james12s :

yh ive even seen legends bumpdraft lol

Anything can bump draft because everything makes a hole in the air. One of my buddies, Kevin Woods, used to bump draft his Pro Mazda and he had holes all over the nose from his opponent's gearboxes. It worked well for him and he won the Molecule championship.

I do it all the time in karts, too, (Watch here at 4:40) even though we're not really at speeds where aero is a huge factor (<80 MPH) it still makes a big difference.

please, pablo, stop creating new topics.