Quote from Glenn67 :

If the developers decided to limit setup options overall a neat way of doing it would be to allow the full range of setup options in an unlimited class, have a default class for what they felt was appropriate for the majority of online racing and have a custom class for server oporators to create spec serries racing.

Good idea, I've always been advocating this idea

Hey everyone !

I made to thread to have some infos about tools that would help recording LFS movies, ingame.

I mean for example some tools that will make the camera follow the racing line at a certain pace, or be fixed outside the car ?

If you guys know a some tools that would work, please can you tell me ?

Thanks

Quote from lawdog :

So instead I'll suggest something easy and fun: a high powered rallycross car with downforce. Why is this easy? Just give the FXR some extra suspension travel and allow knobby and hybrid tires on it. Voila! Instant rally car.

Word. Also what about a sprint car for RallyX ? I made a setup for the MRT (with hybrids on a mod), and it is damn fun !

Yeah I totally understand what you mean !

I'm also a member of the active "I want new track/cars brigade". I'm just saying that an editor would be the fastest way to have one, but not the best one for the reasons mentionned above
There are some kind of tracks that are not used in LFS. For instance, I think that we lack some "endurance" kind of track for the road cars. I mean, for open wheelers and GTRs, Kyoto Long or Aston Historic is the perfect match for a track that put stress as well on the pilot and on the machine for high powered cars, but totally pointless for the road going cars.
That's why I am totally in favor of a track that is really twisty, narrow, etc, in order to be very very technical and stressful for the road going pilots .

I am actually trying to design a layout using parts from different tracks and asphalt rallye stages so that it would be really intense for low specs (understand non-race) cars and even baby GTR. If someone can try to model it with a high quality, maybe we could send some renders to the devs in order to give them an idea

I am not against the principle of an editor, but we can't forget that as Fuse5 said there will be extremely good tracks/cars, and others will just be pointless.

However, if you know how to program/create models I would definetely suggest that you should send some of your works (physics included) to the devs. Indeed, we lack severely from new track and car content, so if you somehow can help the devs, please do it with a direct chat with them, submitting your work

I do not agree with Fuse5 when he says that the 940 track/cars combos mean a lot of diversity. Nobody will really drive them all online or solo just because some combo doesn't interest them. For instance, some guys prefer open wheelers, others GTR-like leagues, others Mini Racing on open diffs. Some people even train on a specific car only just because it is close to what they race IRL.
So we cannot blame those people for not racing all combos avalaible.
Just one more track would be good, and I think really miss some more twisty tracks than what is allowed today.
Moreover, I am quite sad that they kind of forget the rallycross aspect of the game, which is very fun and promising.

I don't get the OP's logic...

He is for realism though he whines when a feature closer to reality is added...

Don't take me wrong, I'm totally for novelty, but I reckon that the core of LFS' experience is how driving feels. And how driving feels (in my mind and I bet in the mind of 96% of the community) is how does your car respond to your inupts and to the inputs made by the bumps, other players, etc.

Realism doesn't only and solely mean photorealism nor feelingorealism. GRID completely outclasses LFS on the graphics field, but I never found a game that simulated that well what I feel when I'm pushing a REAL car in REAL life. Of course, Real life is more beautiful, but if my computer can work on providing me sensation closer to real life rather than graphics closer to real life, then i'll take it. (That's why i really hated GRID).

If you want a feature that will be more realistic and more appealing to the eyes, then I guess providing more sense of speed (I won't suggest how, since it's the devs' job) would be terrific, since the inside view (even if it(s the best for driving) doesn't really gives the impression of going at 100mph when it's the case.

Quote from woodymcruk :

hey welcome to the site
full of self opinionated a**eholes

You're a full of self opinionated a**hole if you can't understand that people might have ideas that differ from yours )

Quote from ssm :

The only major difference in the structure of an old gear box and a modern gear box is the synchronization units. The synchronization units are very much like sand paper, a clutch plate that is between the input gear and the main "slot" gear.

You NEVER blip the engine while upshifting, you are trying to let the revs drop enough that you can engage a higher gear set. What I said about "so double shifting on an upshift would only hurt your synchronization units more." means that: you need to slow the input gear down, speeding the input gear up then mashing the gear in, taxes more on the synchros. Because you are adding extra force for the synchros to slow down for you, thus wearing it down further then normal.

You need to blip the throttle on a down shift because the ratio is quicker, and taller, you need to make the input gear faster to match up to the taller ratio.

Look at the gear setting in the LFS garage, the scale is a pretty good illustration of a gear set, the lower the gear, the "taller" the ratio.



I mean, there will be little load on the engine when you are in an "empty gear" such as neutral. It would provide approxamately the same amount of stress on the engine as when you depress the clutch and rev the engine.

You should understand that the exhaust gasses do not come out at a fast enough rate when there is not enough load on the engine. If there is not enough exhaust gasses coming out, the turbine will not spool fast enough. If the turbine does not spool fast enough, the pressure in the intake manifold will not build. Comprende?

I got your points, but we misunderstood each other ^^ What I meant was that the maximum boost of the turbo wasn't changed by the load : you have the same max boost in neutral and in gears.
What you were talking about was that you get a different boost for a given rpm because, ofc, you need less throttle to keep your car at 5000 rpm in neutral than in fifth. So we agree

Concerning the blip while upshifting, on unsynchronized gearboxes you had to do it if you pushed your car hard. It is because shifting took longer so your revs would drop more than expected (because staying longer in declutched or neutral), so a little blip was needed.
Also you also had to blip while double declutching in order not to overharm your primary gearbox "tree" (it's the word in french, i don't know how to say it ). In neutral your engine is connected to the primary row of gears, thus blipping here makes it spin. Blipping while declutching only makes your revs increase, but not the speed of the primary "tree".
Blipping while upshifting (in a double declutch pattern) is meant to make your primary "tree" go a little faster than with a normal declutch, so that it won't be harmed by the torque input after you have shifted and gased again.

As to precise, now with modern, synchronized gearboxes, you don't have to do it to drive, but on ancient ones, it was needed in order to keep your gearbox in good conditions after lap 3.

Just a little bump (my biggest one ^^)

Some new venues really are what Live For Speed needs the most. I won't be very fond of single-layout ones because they would tend to be dedicated only to one class and thus people prefering GTR or road cars would complain from not having what other drivers had.
I'm totally for new layouts on existing venues because something a bit new is better than nothing new at all (even if something brand new is far better).

So what, in my mind, would be the best solution is that we should get (from the least expected to the most/most possible to the least) :
- New layouts on existing venues (some of the ones posted in the OP would be good).
- New parts on existing venues (create new bits of road, like in the center of Westhill, or more SO roads).
- Brand new venues with at least 2 configs each (to have as much diversity as possible)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Nobody double declutches on upshifts - you'd lose too much time. H&T and Double Declutching are primarily downshifting techniques; you CAN use them for upshifts, but only a total nonce would.

Actually, you HAD to double declutch and blip the throttle when upshifting on very old (race and every day) cars. Because it took a lot more time to shift, your revs could go lower than the value after the gearbox was synchronised.

Quote from ssm :

You don't need to speed the input gears up during an upshift. You DO need to speed the input gears up for a downshift. On an upshift, you let the input gears SLOW DOWN, so double shifting on an upshift would only hurt your synchronization units more.

and @ mrrodgers, there is no resistance when you rev the engine in "neutral gear", so, it would not do much for your boost pressure. There is something called a parking brake start, where you have the parking brake on, and you slip the clutch and use the clutch plate as resistance for your turbocharger to build up boost pressure.

I don't get your last point (to mrrodgers). Your transmission doesn't affect your turbo's pressure.

Quote from Craig010 :

+1 for a Real Auto... simply because it would add to the realism and wouldnt take anything away from what we allready have If you didnt like it then just choose not to use it. Also, im sure it wouldnt be that hard to to

I bet it would ! An Auto transmission isn't just a standard gear transmission that auto shifts, it's much more complex, with torque converters, etc. Woz's points are all true here.

Plus, I would never trust a RWD auto'ed car that would shift for me in curves...

Quote from Daviticus :

Hillclimb, or Downhill.

Grip-style.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Provide the track in its' entireity, and the drivers will use it to their amusement.

I, personally, would stick with grip-driving the hillclimb and downhill on it [the theorecital track in question], with the occasional daily-boredom-drift-session here and there. I'm building an Acura for the sport, and would love to have a virtual representation of the drive.

+1000 (ps, if you know some nice roads near Seattle (WA), could you tell me, for I'll be studying there and I need some twisty stuff to ride on )

I just found that watching some LFS movies on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... Fb8uI&feature=related

Do you think some of those guys stealed an old version of Blackwood RX or just modelled one from scratch ? Because the devs can be scared that all of our great tracks will just be stolent by some modders of rCraptor ?

They just took the XRT out of demo for business purposes

The devs, that aren't that stupid, saw that the XRT was very demanded on the market. Here comes a simple economic rule :
- There were 2 products offering the XRT : Lfs demo and Lfs S2.
- The demo had XRT so the offer/demand price for having it was 0, cheaper than paying 24£ to have S2.
- They saw a lot and a lot of drifter fans played the demo to have the XRT.
- They removed the XRT from demo, so the people who wanted to play with it only had the choice of buying S2.
- There were a lot of XRT demo users (mainly for drift purposes ) so, because the offer price was 0, the demand was infinite, and none of them (considering only the car, not the tracks available --> ceteris paribus option on) did go the to buy the S2 (or S1).
- So, by the removing of the choice, the devs had defined the price to drive the XRT to the same price as S2. Hence, since the offer price is higher, there will be less demand, but the devs are still winners here following the simple equation :

Infinite*0£ = 0 < "less than infinite"*24£


Demoers, this means one thing to you : BUY S2 ! You loved your XRT right ? Loved to hear the turbo spooling and hitting the rev limiter while sliding hard a burning sum' smok' ya ? So BUY S2 ! And you'll be able to slide your XRT to everywhere in the LFSWorld, impressing the aristocratic girls in South City with your long... slides. Or just burn up some weed at the wheel of the twisty road of the Fern Bay ! You could even paint it how you want !
(This is marketing )

Quote from Torben :

Ähm, no.. we race for the fun of it. And although claimed every time again, it is simply not true that a race is restarted every time one of "us" crashes. If you would stick on an oval server for a couple if nights, you would realise, that "we" restart races, when they need to be restarted. May it be, one of "us" crashes with half the field, or most of "us" are up in front. If half the field crashes in lap one, a restart is just fair. And if people try to restart a race in lap 6/8, their mouth should be Jaffa'ed. Period.
And by the way, it can get really annoying to get crashed 6 races in a row, by some unexpierenced driver, who can't even start in a straight line, or use his "watch left", "watch right" buttons to see if a car is at his side. Those are the people complaining, "I got banned, why oh why, did you ban me, and why do you restart every time you crash?"
If you can't start in a straight line, and drive even 8 laps on your own without crashing, a crowed oval server is just not the right place for you, yet.. Go train offline.

You see, you're being condescendent with me If you've been online while I was there, you would have see that the yellow flags I've unfortunately participated in were not caused by me.
As I say in my earlier post, people go all out thinking it is easy and cause crashes. I have a sufficient experience in racing to know where I can go safely and where to back up.

About the restarts, please, be honest here The number of people who want to restart after lap 6 is very very small I reckon that when you are hosting the FO8's you restart more at starts because of the recurrent spinning here but you guys aren't really fair play. I've been in Oval Junkies or Starters from time to time and I always seen the same behavior.
If you take a bad start, and make a guy spin at lap 6/7, you just insult him saying he's a noob and keep going till the end even if you spoiled intentionally his race.
As the contrary, if a blue flagger, or anyone else screws your pattern at lap 4, an Admin Restart is very (too much) frequent...

I don't mean YOU personally, what I mean by "you" is the oval addicts that have this type of behavior, not all the time, but sadly more often that what would be expected of gentlemen drivers

It is not because you guys are good in Oval (I say that I keep being impressed by the efficicency of your patterns) that people MUST let you pass without effort.

It would have been a good idea, but since the FIA is as well very restrictive on the sounds IRL, it prevents drivers from using a free-flow exhaust that is extremely noisy (with a custom free flow exhaust on my 4 strokes 50cc honda Dax, I made more noise at 4000rpm than my cousin's F355 at 7500...).

I'd really hate not to be able to hear my engine's sound for shifting if there's a UF1 ricer guy with a freeflow-like exhaust volume next to me...

Last edited by Zen321, Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:34.

+10

Very good suggestion indeed !

I would prefer to have some options, that vocal commands to change them. For instance having 5 customizable options in pits, which would be locked inrace (you could choose which to use in F12) plus one customizable while driving in case of events you didn't forsee. (Like you think your main opponents will change the tires for the two last laps, and you haven't a repair profile that corresponds to this).

Quote from Postman Pat :

The engine sounds are still abysmal (kills immersion for me), the AI still punt you off (that's the two reasons I won't pay), and I don't want a stable PC sent to cr*p while trying to solve this. Think this may well be it for me I'm afraid.

For the engine sounds, press shift+A ingame and you have a list of options from which you can adjust the tone/volume/evenness/gearwhine/whatever of your engine sound.

The goal of LFS (check the logo) is to be an "Online racing simulator", because modelling realistic AI behavioral pattern to be as close as how RL pilots would behave is very long and hard, the developpers prefer (rightfully) to use their times to offer the best physics ever to people. So if you want a good intelligence from your opponents, play online

Let me have my two-cents here ^^

First about your disability dude. I feel sympathy for you because I know some people who are disabled (in different ways), and their life isn't as easy as non-disabled people's. However, I don't quite get the link between disability and Oval racing ?
Check this video (http://www.driftblog.fr/prepar ... -de-drift-pour-handicape/), the guy lost the use of his two legs and still he CAN drift with an adapted car. The point of this video is that with all the steering aids you can get from LFS, you can build yourself an aid-setup that can help you drive better and easier. It's long, it's annoying, it takes time, but it can have very unexpectedly good results
As others said, but this has already been discussed before, saying that not adding an Oval is discriminating against disabled people isn't very kind, andwon't get you far. But as everything was said on this point, I will move on

My second point is Oval Racing itself. I'm not a member of the anti-oval-police or the oval-brigade but I yet have some stuff to say about this kind of racing. Firstly, I guess that in LFS people don't have the maturity to race the oval.
Most of them go there because they think it is easy and end up turning the race into the crashfest, which is very annoying.
The oval nerds (especially the teams), even if they are good there, also contribute to give a bad image of oval.
I mean, you guys know that you play for winning, get the best times, have the best draft pattern, which is normal and cool to watch. But everytime one of you guys crashes you just restart hard the race as if you didn't care for the other racers, which isn't the best way to show you're fairplay, right ? And when other people try to restart on their own, you just tell them that their mouth can get Jaffa'ed.
About the track itself, I'd say that the only challenging corner is the 3rd bended one, only because when you're distracted you don't see/feel in time that the bend is slightly lower than the two others, then you start sliding or understeering bad. This is good for passing moves, when you go all out on here and you end up with a massive fail.
That track is too wide for what LFS cars can do know. Even with the best setups for the Oval, you're never ever really at the limit of your cars, which doesn't seem fun to do. Finally, the aerodraft model isn't good, so yet it needs to be perfected in order to reflect the real oval racing.

I would be glad to have another Oval, but a short one. Why ? Because what is fun/impressive in oval racing is too see 40 dudes going bumpers to bumpers in lines, etc... The Oval we have now is too big for the car possibilities, so we never really see this. What we see is more of a dance in every corner, people switching places, etc.
A short, narrow, twist oval would be good, because it would be more technical (people would actually have to lift-off before the corners -and even brake- and the traffic would be so packed that it would be really hard to pass/overlap people), so this would train them for the bigger oval, where actually people could race and give us a show.

Quote from popps258 :

How about an Oval Mountain drifting course
so long as it has forced rainy weather, steam powered tebo engines.
the mandatory Mobile phone on the dashboards, warp factor ten Clutch packs, All cars would have to be convertibles too so when the sun shines you can take the roofs off and get a muddy face. and cars will need good stereo to play music like Joe Satriani, Floyd Etc.
OOps gotta go infraction warning heading my way
Doubt you will ever see a mountain drift track just like we will never see another oval.
But all the other stuff may happen most likely the mobile phone on dash will be next.
Oops gotta go My Mobile is ringing
Freaking Mad Popps

The first part was good, the second was useless

As mentioned before, there are no tracks that are purely drift-built or race-built. A track doesn't have to adapt to a driving style, it's the opposite.
It have surely been said before, but more that a mountain course (A-->B) having a long track made on a mountain road (like SO is made on town streets) so that people can have races with laps, or you could make your own start.finish lines to create your own hill climbs / downhill runs.

Quote from scania :

some car would have tyre pressure alum light

Can you give us a pic ? I never heard about a car having a tire pressure indicator...

+1 for more realistic infos, -1 for having the F9-F10 menus (maybe F12, because it is instructions you give to the pit crew )

Well driving style is a mix of technique and strategy.

For the technique I tend to use my own custom setups and not the ones found on SetupGrid or Inferno. This is because they might be awesome for hotlaps, but are quite limited for racing actions (passing, cornering side by side, etc..). Indeed, they are made to follow the line, and each disturbance results in an incredibly huge loss of speed compared to a setup built for digging your way to the up of the pack.
As others, I like setups that are "slidy" (understeering wheels-tires setups-suspensions but with oversteer at the entrance), and I prefer to rely on my footwork than my hands.

About the tactic, since I moslty race the XRG (god I love this car) against other XRG and XFGs, i tend to use the power of my car at the start to gain 3-5 places. Then, if I lose some during the race, it is okay. For passing, I tend to be very mean, given that I build my moves during about 3-4 corners (creating pressure on the guy, to make him fail epically), or I just seize an opportunity of there is one and rush into the inside at the beginning of the corner, to block the dude.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Let's throw a spanner in the works - a turbo's ability to generate boost has more to do with exhaust gas temperature than flow rate.

Let's throw a second one - a turbo's ability to generate boost has more to do with the revs and size of the exhaust turbine than flow rate

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

lol v8 supercars use detriot lockers now?
i thought they used to use Full Spools cause detriot lockers are extreamly savage with on/off power.

anyways drifters use 2 way cause like he said its pritty much constant locked diff.

so i guess the theroy is how would u want to setup the car?

Mostly for racing in club tracks (very narrow angles, repeated left-right changes) or autox.
But just to precise, if the locking value is 50% it doesn't means that it behaves all the time liked a halfway locked diff : it just behaves like this WHEN the inside wheel lose traction

Tristan is quite right, so I guess a 1.5way(i guess the power/coast locking ratio are 50 and 25% for a Miata) will be just fine, as I usually do my best times with a setup that oversteers a bit in entries and have understeering in exits.

Quote from Forbin :

I look at those screenshots and it makes me want vomit and throw my feces at small children.

Creepiest post of the year.