First : to counter this, turn to full lock each way when out of pits if it does that, it recalibrates (do the same with the pedals, as you might end up with full braking even if you brake just a lil touch). 
Second : can't help you, don't have this problem...
Maybe try to check the Logitech profiler settings and put every thing at 100 or 150% to see whether it works or not 
Second : can't help you, don't have this problem...
Maybe try to check the Logitech profiler settings and put every thing at 100 or 150% to see whether it works or not Well even if there was a better damage model, people would still not take car of their car, only because of the instant pit ability.
With a better damage system + an impossibility of repairing instantly, then the drivers will be more cautious (especially in lap 1/turn 1 in races) as they would drive slowly in order to prevent unwated effects AND to be ready to dodge other people when in traffic.
For now, what could be done is the suggestion by Woz. Each time an object (body part or road after a jump or cone, etc), touches the engine "cube" (or tranny cube or whatever), they get a bit of damage to add up to a kind of damage gauge (the more filled the gauge is the less performant the engine or the transmission is), up to a certain extent. If a car gets his gauge full, then his car is undrivable and you get a global yellow flag for the track untill a certain amount of time, then the car autopits and the driver is not able to rejoin anymore untill the raced is finished.
So, with this, people will drive with more care, the number of accident and collision will reduce, and every body will enjoy a better driving experience
With a better damage system + an impossibility of repairing instantly, then the drivers will be more cautious (especially in lap 1/turn 1 in races) as they would drive slowly in order to prevent unwated effects AND to be ready to dodge other people when in traffic.
For now, what could be done is the suggestion by Woz. Each time an object (body part or road after a jump or cone, etc), touches the engine "cube" (or tranny cube or whatever), they get a bit of damage to add up to a kind of damage gauge (the more filled the gauge is the less performant the engine or the transmission is), up to a certain extent. If a car gets his gauge full, then his car is undrivable and you get a global yellow flag for the track untill a certain amount of time, then the car autopits and the driver is not able to rejoin anymore untill the raced is finished.
So, with this, people will drive with more care, the number of accident and collision will reduce, and every body will enjoy a better driving experience
The power is a real "issue" on a Miata. I will have 115hp, so I need to get every single one of them down the pavement and not loosing them
I guess I'll opt for a 1.5 way, so that the entires won't be that sacrificed compared to the 2 way one. Plus, as a Miata is ultra light, I guess that I can recover quite fast (not much inertia). What do you think ?I wasn't speaking of your childhood, but on your attitude right now : every one who disagrees with you is just a complete dumbass. See, there's a correlation between attitude and the way you have been raised 
And btw, I was as well showing myself as kind as you have been toward other posters. So please show more respect to other opinions, because they are as worth as yours.
And btw, I was as well showing myself as kind as you have been toward other posters. So please show more respect to other opinions, because they are as worth as yours.
Without flaming you, after reading your sentence, I guess you are one of those spoiled kids
There is NOTHING a kid can do under parental authority, and long term mental harassment to do something.
Moreover, if a kid wants to race, parents won't provide him for sure with the required funds. (I always wanted to sign in karting series, my parents just said no and I'm glad they did : I might not reach F1, but uphill/downhill races are just a whole load funnier
). It is just a stupid bar-psychology you just did here, except if your parents paid for all of your fantasies, which will end up building you a very bad life.Thanks for your answers, but as I wrote this OP in a hurry, I didn't have time to explain it properly
What I mean by the Locking is how locked the differential gets when a wheel (the inside one) starts to slip. Meaning how much torque is transfered from the inside wheel to the outside one
1 way : behaves as an open diff under deceleration, but locks up under acceleration.
1.5 way : partially locked under deceleration, locked underacceleration
2 way : locked under both acceleration and deceleration
All of these above, of course, happens when the inside wheel starts slipping.
If I would compare with LFS clutch pack settings :
- 1 way : 10% coast / 80% power
- 1.5 way : 50% coast / 80% power
- 2 way : 80% coast / 80% power
My question is because I will buy soon a new car for trackday amateur racing (Mx-5 miata) and i have the choice between a 1.5 or a 2 way. So I wanted to see if you guys thought that the 2 way was a good alternative (or is it just that I don't manage to cope with the Understeer when cornering)
What I mean by the Locking is how locked the differential gets when a wheel (the inside one) starts to slip. Meaning how much torque is transfered from the inside wheel to the outside one
1 way : behaves as an open diff under deceleration, but locks up under acceleration.
1.5 way : partially locked under deceleration, locked underacceleration
2 way : locked under both acceleration and deceleration
All of these above, of course, happens when the inside wheel starts slipping.
If I would compare with LFS clutch pack settings :
- 1 way : 10% coast / 80% power
- 1.5 way : 50% coast / 80% power
- 2 way : 80% coast / 80% power
My question is because I will buy soon a new car for trackday amateur racing (Mx-5 miata) and i have the choice between a 1.5 or a 2 way. So I wanted to see if you guys thought that the 2 way was a good alternative (or is it just that I don't manage to cope with the Understeer when cornering
)I guess it is wrong... Check the Locked Diff craze on race setups. I have NEVER EVER heard of professionals or amateurs racing on tracks (and most of all : hold WRs !) with cars equipped with locked differentials... (maybe it is then because the tire model isn't finished yet ?)
Clutch pack LSD : 1, 1.5 or 2 ways ?
Hey !
After searching through the threads, I didn(t find a post answering my question :
There are basically 3 types of Clutch Pack LSD :
- 1 way : open under coast (decelleration), full lock under power (accelleration)
- 1.5 ways : not full lock under coast, full lock under power
- 2 ways : full lock under both coast and power.
So my question is : which of the 1.5 or 2 ways is better (in an average track day car) ? I've heard a lot of racecars ran with a 2 way one, but doesn't it create unwanted understeer when entering ?
So isn't a 1.5 better for cornering (same exit power, but better entry speed?)
After searching through the threads, I didn(t find a post answering my question :
There are basically 3 types of Clutch Pack LSD :
- 1 way : open under coast (decelleration), full lock under power (accelleration)
- 1.5 ways : not full lock under coast, full lock under power
- 2 ways : full lock under both coast and power.
So my question is : which of the 1.5 or 2 ways is better (in an average track day car) ? I've heard a lot of racecars ran with a 2 way one, but doesn't it create unwanted understeer when entering ?
So isn't a 1.5 better for cornering (same exit power, but better entry speed?)
It seems that you didn't try it
Indeed, it might be a very small thing, but IMHO you feel more like in a car and not in a 3D cockpit The number have nothing to do
I don't think that counting the +/- makes a good suggestion or a bad one. This was just to have an idea of the enthusiasm of the people here, nothing more, nothing less Plus, even if this is my idea, I don't consider it as my baby, so I won't be pissed if people prefer to put -1000 instead of -1
Maybe then we can *expect to* have a new car or track for the release of S2 Final (remember the FBM and the Chicane route for S2Y
)Anyway, great patch, the needle "grey stuff" is very good. It is a little thing, but I find it more eye-friendly, more realistic, and so sexy
(it made me drive faster by 0.3 secs in each track i drove on today 
).Great news as well that patch Z is coming soon. Hope we will have some nice things in it
False, the FZ5 and the RAC are midship.
It is obivous that you have a lower grip on ramps (painted wood surface, plus all the mass goes to the rear), so you have then to adapt yourself (start sliding just before your front tires hit the ramp and you'll face the exit )
)Because they work the opposite way I suggest.
Actually, via Insim, they control "restrictions" while in my idea they would control "upgrades" : they won't restrict anything, just allow this or that upgrade to your car
As I said previously, the idea for preventing abuses is that every server would have options to allow which part of the car is tuneable and to which extent.
I don't write books because I like it, but in this case i needed to go in every detail of this theory so as not to be considered as a ricer fan
IMHO, N/A XR (210hp) would be a match for the XRT as the XFG is a match for the XRG : less power, but lighter (no need to really put it on weight in order to manage the chassis stress caused by the turbo's torque), so it would corner pretty well, though as you say you wouldn't have that kick out on straight when the pressure builds up. I don't think it would be easier to corner it, because let's take the example of the XRG : it hasn't got enough power to keep stability in corners if you go hard while tapping the gas, but maybe 210hp would be too strong (for the same weight) and end up with a delicate touch of oversteering exits (which sucks for time
)I guess that the main different would be such a different handling in corners and power right when exiting a curve.
Last edited by Zen321, .
What about a better optimized N/A engine ? Because 140hp for 1800cc is a bit few... Upgrading the XRG engine to stay N/A and pull around 210hp IS tuning.
Back again folks (had to get back to work ).
What I appreciate now is that you guys clearly understood the point of my post. As I said, I don't want tuning for tuning's sake, I say that a bit more customization would be great for making LFS closer to real life.
Because the fact is that, whether you like it or not, cars in GT, GT2 competition are tuned road going cars (engine and/or handling depending on which GT class it is), not by manufacturers, but either by specialized preparetor, or by the team's own engineers.
I'd like to clarify some things for those who still don't understand (and i guess there is only a few left ). Another point of my idea right now is to remove the existing classes, and not allow full customization within a class (IMHO, I find that a NFS-tuned XRG vs XFG race sucks) but to allow hosts to create classes by selecting a certain amount of rules :
For example, a guy who wants to create a GT3 championship will allow on his server : engine mod up to a certain point, add a minimum weight for all cars (player wont have a scroll bar to put their weight down, but will chose which parts to remove), allow certain compounds of slicks, aerodynamic parts, etc. Thus, people can mod every car they want in order to make it follow the rules (and obviously not all the cars will be able to compete : the UF1 would be too light, and weightening it won't make the difference, etc).
The obvious bad point of this idea, and sadly I'm aware of it is that there will be abuse from players who will allow everything in their servers. But, I'm quite an optimistic one, and I guess that all motorsports fans here are quite serious and could use the diversity provided by this suggestion to create a more interesting community, and not to mess up around with.
This leads to the main reason why I've thought of all of this stuff. I guess, and everyone who blames Cruise servers is aware of this, that LFS tends to be boring on the long run. Of course I love this game, of course I paid a lot (G25+license) to benefit fmor the best racing experience ever. But when I race with other guys I am like : "Okay, we have all the same car, so there's no surprises awaiting in this race". It is all the more obvious when you are in some really intense racing institutions and see everyone with FWD (FXO or XFG, not quoting CTRA racers which I deeply respect).
And I have quite a laugh when I read people saying : Multiclass races is the future of LFS ! (How can you enjoy having a race in whichi you are sure to have no competition with half of the grid ??)
Having the possibility to tune-up your own cars to match the GT, GT2, G3, GTR specs, or Pro-Stock would be that people will not only know you for your driving skills, but also for the quality of how you set-up your car under the rules of the league you're in. Pretty much like F1 : All teams race with different cars, and you know that Ferrari, Mercedes and Sauber have got the best cars. Thus, when you a guy enters a LFS GT league (for example), people will think : "Oh it's him and his monstruously well-prepared car."
Finally, when I say tuning, I don't mean Ricer customization. I mean real race preparation. Tuning literally means "adjusting", so my point here is to allow a better adjustment of the car's performance to create more game content
Edit :
This is also a good idea. However, even if I fully agree with it, it would create much more work for the devs, and may end up with Mini version of the GTR class (like the XRT with slicks and aero), whereas people might prefer a racing N/A version of the XRG But I have to admit that this could work and cope with the fear people have against engine tuning under restriction.
).What I appreciate now is that you guys clearly understood the point of my post. As I said, I don't want tuning for tuning's sake, I say that a bit more customization would be great for making LFS closer to real life.
Because the fact is that, whether you like it or not, cars in GT, GT2 competition are tuned road going cars (engine and/or handling depending on which GT class it is), not by manufacturers, but either by specialized preparetor, or by the team's own engineers.
I'd like to clarify some things for those who still don't understand (and i guess there is only a few left
). Another point of my idea right now is to remove the existing classes, and not allow full customization within a class (IMHO, I find that a NFS-tuned XRG vs XFG race sucks) but to allow hosts to create classes by selecting a certain amount of rules :For example, a guy who wants to create a GT3 championship will allow on his server : engine mod up to a certain point, add a minimum weight for all cars (player wont have a scroll bar to put their weight down, but will chose which parts to remove), allow certain compounds of slicks, aerodynamic parts, etc. Thus, people can mod every car they want in order to make it follow the rules (and obviously not all the cars will be able to compete : the UF1 would be too light, and weightening it won't make the difference, etc).
The obvious bad point of this idea, and sadly I'm aware of it is that there will be abuse from players who will allow everything in their servers. But, I'm quite an optimistic one, and I guess that all motorsports fans here are quite serious and could use the diversity provided by this suggestion to create a more interesting community, and not to mess up around with.
This leads to the main reason why I've thought of all of this stuff. I guess, and everyone who blames Cruise servers is aware of this, that LFS tends to be boring on the long run. Of course I love this game, of course I paid a lot (G25+license) to benefit fmor the best racing experience ever. But when I race with other guys I am like : "Okay, we have all the same car, so there's no surprises awaiting in this race". It is all the more obvious when you are in some really intense racing institutions and see everyone with FWD (FXO or XFG, not quoting CTRA racers which I deeply respect).
And I have quite a laugh when I read people saying : Multiclass races is the future of LFS ! (How can you enjoy having a race in whichi you are sure to have no competition with half of the grid ??)
Having the possibility to tune-up your own cars to match the GT, GT2, G3, GTR specs, or Pro-Stock would be that people will not only know you for your driving skills, but also for the quality of how you set-up your car under the rules of the league you're in. Pretty much like F1 : All teams race with different cars, and you know that Ferrari, Mercedes and Sauber have got the best cars. Thus, when you a guy enters a LFS GT league (for example), people will think : "Oh it's him and his monstruously well-prepared car."
Finally, when I say tuning, I don't mean Ricer customization. I mean real race preparation. Tuning literally means "adjusting", so my point here is to allow a better adjustment of the car's performance to create more game content
Edit :
This is also a good idea. However, even if I fully agree with it, it would create much more work for the devs, and may end up with Mini version of the GTR class (like the XRT with slicks and aero), whereas people might prefer a racing N/A version of the XRG
But I have to admit that this could work and cope with the fear people have against engine tuning under restriction.
Last edited by Zen321, .
I didn't post all that massive (well-written may it be) amount of text to ask (or beg as it seems in your mind) for lonely tuning options.
The idea of my post, and I'm sad you didn't understand it is to give more flexibility to the car system and to the events player/organisation can set-up.
If LFS wants to be the best ever racing simulator, as it is close to be right now, it need to insist more on community and allow people to customize the challenges they provide to other people.
Check the rules, restrictions and car specs in the GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4 series. You will see that they are really different.
Instead of begging for new GTRs, or for player-modelled cars (as in rFactor), I submitted and idea that will, at the same time, provide more diversity to people and more times for devs to focus on something else than adding new car/classes, because the hosts, by the restrictions and rules they will impose on tuning, will create those classes.
It is way far from NFSroxxorzs ask, I just suggest more rules (player-based rules and restrictions on each server they make) to prevent from the derives tuning geeks could generate. The point of my suggestion was to be able to create more close to IRL GT or Racing events than we have right now, and I feel really disappointed that you only perceived it as a Tunermanialike suggestion
The idea of my post, and I'm sad you didn't understand it is to give more flexibility to the car system and to the events player/organisation can set-up.
If LFS wants to be the best ever racing simulator, as it is close to be right now, it need to insist more on community and allow people to customize the challenges they provide to other people.
Check the rules, restrictions and car specs in the GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4 series. You will see that they are really different.
Instead of begging for new GTRs, or for player-modelled cars (as in rFactor), I submitted and idea that will, at the same time, provide more diversity to people and more times for devs to focus on something else than adding new car/classes, because the hosts, by the restrictions and rules they will impose on tuning, will create those classes.
It is way far from NFSroxxorzs ask, I just suggest more rules (player-based rules and restrictions on each server they make) to prevent from the derives tuning geeks could generate. The point of my suggestion was to be able to create more close to IRL GT or Racing events than we have right now, and I feel really disappointed that you only perceived it as a Tunermanialike suggestion
MAJOR Improvement Suggestion : Revamp of the Car Classes
Hello everyone !
This is a (very) long post explaining my ideas on how to make the car class system in LFS better, freed and closer to real life. We will go through a lil explanation of how it is right now, what it lacks, the basic idea on what could be upgraded and finally precise and technical suggestions.
Have a good reading
__
The car class system as it is right now:
1 : « Low specs low cost cars »
- UF1000 (53hp 1000cc I4 / FWD layout / 4 speed gearbox / 600 kilos / 94 bhp per ton)
2 : « Dynamic road cars »
- XF GTi (110hp 1300cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 940 kilos / 124 bhp per ton)
- XR GT (140hp 1800cc I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1150 kilos / 124 bhp per ton)
3 : « Roadsters »
- LX4 (140hp 1300cc I4 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 499 kilos / 286 bhp per ton)
4 : « Sports version of road cars » or « Turbo’ed road cars »
- RB4 GT (243 hp 2000cc turbo I4 / AWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1210 kilos / 204 bhp per ton)
- FXO Turbo(234 hp 1900cc turbo flat 4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1136 kilos / 206 bhp per ton lfs says 210 but when you calculate, it makes 206)
- XR GT Turbo (247hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1223 kilos / 206 bhp per ton)
5 : « Performance built sport cars » or « LRF »
- Raceabout (245hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 800 kilos / 311 bhp per ton)
- FZ50 (360hp 3600cc Flat 6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1380 kilos / 265 bhp per ton)
- LX6 (190hp 1800cc I6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 539 kilos / 358 bhp per ton)
6 : « Mini GT »
- UFR (180hp 1400cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 600 kilos / 304bhp per ton)
- XFR (230hp 2000cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 840 kilos / 279bhp per ton)
-
7 : « GTR »
- FXR (490hp 2000cc turbo Flat 4 / AWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 453bhp per ton)
- XRR (490hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 453 bhp per ton)
- FZR (490hp 3600cc Flat 6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 452bhp per ton)
My thoughts about this car class system:
It is quite exotic and diversified. It is a totally different experience to race with an UF1 than to race with a LRF or even an XRG. There is a good point of having pre-made classes, and pre-tuned cars à ready to drive, and you focus more on the handling tuning and skills than performance.
However, it is a very limited system. We are limited to a certain amount of combos. As well, usually a car is superior than another one in the same class (example : the XFG surpasses the XRG on all tracks, except long ones like BL1 or some AS, but that’s all). With this system, the importance of teamwork and tuning is very limited: There are usually one or two setups that pop up and end with the best times, and can make a bad driver go fast à This goes against the policy of LFS which insists on the importance of tuning, and differences in setups: as a result, every end up driving an Inferno or a Setupgrid setup.
In my opinion, what does this system lack? :
- Only a few tuning possibilities, which is really far from IRL race tuning : racing teams and racing engineers consider a car as a whole, and improvement in suspensions, wheels, tires or transmission go with engine or weight fine tuning. As a result, in the GT series for example (but it is better seen in F1), two cars on the same basis (let’s say a Saleen S7 Turbo) end up with very different results with the same engine (importance of handling tuning that LFS emphasizes on) or can have very similar results with completely different engines (importance of tuning as a hole, that LFS completely forgets).
- So, this ends up with a community life that makes a day look like another one : same series, same tracks, same cars, same challenges… Moreover (forgive me if I’ve mistaken), LFS doesn’t have yet an Insim app that can check if setups possess a certain number of specs (compulsory tire types, etc.) that leagues could impose as a rule for sprint, or endurance series. Then, community initiative and creation concerning events, leagues, type of motorsport tends to be very limited.
An abstract of my improvement suggestions for the revamp of the car class system:
In my humble opinion, there is a way to make the car class system in LFS closer to reality, and at the same time funnier to race with, more interesting for people who would like to specialize in car tuning (not ricer tuning, but making a car have more performance) and also that would give a boost to the community. In real life, it isn’t the car makers (LFS devs) that decide what are the car rules and restrictions for a league or an event. Is it the FIA (CTRA ) or local organizations (Westminster’s Side Car Cross Association) that defines rules and restrictions. Contestants (players) must then comply to the rules and tune their car to achieve the best performance while following their rules. This can go from engine tuning, to suspension tweaking, brakes, etc. If everything of these were allowed to players, and if LFS gave server hosts a mean to check if players followed and eventually have an automatic feature of forcespec or autokick/autoban (not a gameword ) if they didn’t comply to these rules. Server hosters may then create custom leagues, with different spec restrictions that are different from one another, and closer to what Real Life league organization is.
A list of points that would make this suggestion possible and great:
-Allow players to perform engine tuning (changing intake diameter, intake or exhaust pipe diameter, possibility to add a turbo or a supercharger), engine tweaking (changing displacement, bore/stroke ratio, number of valves, number and type of camshaft) and engine swapping. A lot of options would be complicated and take time to add, but is some major where already available in a Beta way, it will be nice
-Allow a freed transmission (number of gears) and layout tuning (in order to create either WRC or rallycross/rallyoval machines).
-Allow players to perform weight (add/remove seats, add/remove roll-cage, etc.) and chassis (change material, change the size) tuning, which will result in very different weight repartition schemes.
-Allow players to change the aeroperformance of the car (allowing people to install bodykits or spoilers that have an aero effect. ß plus, you can let them choose between several ones, so that ricers will be satisfied and let the improvement forum chill out a bit)
-Allow everycar to wear all the tire types.
-Remove the XRR, FXR, FZR, UFR, XFR (because they are already tuned, and if people were able to tune their car to have equal specs, they are then useless), eventually LX6 (because it can be considered as a tuned LX4).
-So (for tin tops), there will only be the following cars: UF1, XFG, XRG, LX4, XRT, FXO, RB4, RAC, FZ5
-Add other road going cars to give more diversity to the game: an American classic muscle (Camaro 1967 or Mustang GT 1968), a coupe sedan cruiser (Mercedes CLK for creating DTM, etc), a 4-wheel-steer (Nissan, Jeep, or Renault Laguna GT), an American sport muscle (Corvette/Viper), a low-power midship (Toyota MR2 mkII-like), a supercar midship (some Ferrari). For all of these cars, plus the existing one, allow the existing customization, plus the points I mentioned above.
-Give Server hosts the ability to chose which kind of customization will be allowed in their server. For example : stock engine or modified engine (allow turbo or not, maximum number of cylinders, maximum displacement, intake mods or not, etc), stock chassis or modified chassis (compulsory roll cage, stock seats), stock body or modified body (no aero, or bodykits but no ground effects spoilers), transmission, suspension, allowed tires, etc. And for each of these, allow them to choose maximal and minimal values.
-Provide them with pre-made options : Full Stock, Pro stock (little engine, chassis, suspension mods), Rally (rollcage and copilot compulsory, minimal weight of 800 kilos, etc..), Trackday (Pro stocks allowing slicks) etc..
-This done, server hosts, league hosts will be able to provide a custom car-class system that will give players a serious and closer to real life experience of what trackday, amateur, semi-pro and professional racing is.
-The same can be done with the different formulas (providing a “basis”), but I can’t tell a thing on this, because my formula knowledge is very limited.
Thank you for reading this (long) thread, and please leave constructive comments and discuss this suggestion. Feel free to answer the poll and I thank everyone for the support you will provide
This is a (very) long post explaining my ideas on how to make the car class system in LFS better, freed and closer to real life. We will go through a lil explanation of how it is right now, what it lacks, the basic idea on what could be upgraded and finally precise and technical suggestions.
Have a good reading
__
The car class system as it is right now:
1 : « Low specs low cost cars »
- UF1000 (53hp 1000cc I4 / FWD layout / 4 speed gearbox / 600 kilos / 94 bhp per ton)
2 : « Dynamic road cars »
- XF GTi (110hp 1300cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 940 kilos / 124 bhp per ton)
- XR GT (140hp 1800cc I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1150 kilos / 124 bhp per ton)
3 : « Roadsters »
- LX4 (140hp 1300cc I4 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 499 kilos / 286 bhp per ton)
4 : « Sports version of road cars » or « Turbo’ed road cars »
- RB4 GT (243 hp 2000cc turbo I4 / AWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1210 kilos / 204 bhp per ton)
- FXO Turbo(234 hp 1900cc turbo flat 4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1136 kilos / 206 bhp per ton lfs says 210 but when you calculate, it makes 206)
- XR GT Turbo (247hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 1223 kilos / 206 bhp per ton)
5 : « Performance built sport cars » or « LRF »
- Raceabout (245hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 800 kilos / 311 bhp per ton)
- FZ50 (360hp 3600cc Flat 6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1380 kilos / 265 bhp per ton)
- LX6 (190hp 1800cc I6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 539 kilos / 358 bhp per ton)
6 : « Mini GT »
- UFR (180hp 1400cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 600 kilos / 304bhp per ton)
- XFR (230hp 2000cc I4 / FWD layout / 5 speed gearbox / 840 kilos / 279bhp per ton)
-
7 : « GTR »
- FXR (490hp 2000cc turbo Flat 4 / AWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 453bhp per ton)
- XRR (490hp 2000cc turbo I4 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 453 bhp per ton)
- FZR (490hp 3600cc Flat 6 / RWD layout / 6 speed gearbox / 1100 kilos / 452bhp per ton)
My thoughts about this car class system:
It is quite exotic and diversified. It is a totally different experience to race with an UF1 than to race with a LRF or even an XRG. There is a good point of having pre-made classes, and pre-tuned cars à ready to drive, and you focus more on the handling tuning and skills than performance.
However, it is a very limited system. We are limited to a certain amount of combos. As well, usually a car is superior than another one in the same class (example : the XFG surpasses the XRG on all tracks, except long ones like BL1 or some AS, but that’s all). With this system, the importance of teamwork and tuning is very limited: There are usually one or two setups that pop up and end with the best times, and can make a bad driver go fast à This goes against the policy of LFS which insists on the importance of tuning, and differences in setups: as a result, every end up driving an Inferno or a Setupgrid setup.
In my opinion, what does this system lack? :
- Only a few tuning possibilities, which is really far from IRL race tuning : racing teams and racing engineers consider a car as a whole, and improvement in suspensions, wheels, tires or transmission go with engine or weight fine tuning. As a result, in the GT series for example (but it is better seen in F1), two cars on the same basis (let’s say a Saleen S7 Turbo) end up with very different results with the same engine (importance of handling tuning that LFS emphasizes on) or can have very similar results with completely different engines (importance of tuning as a hole, that LFS completely forgets).
- So, this ends up with a community life that makes a day look like another one : same series, same tracks, same cars, same challenges… Moreover (forgive me if I’ve mistaken), LFS doesn’t have yet an Insim app that can check if setups possess a certain number of specs (compulsory tire types, etc.) that leagues could impose as a rule for sprint, or endurance series. Then, community initiative and creation concerning events, leagues, type of motorsport tends to be very limited.
An abstract of my improvement suggestions for the revamp of the car class system:
In my humble opinion, there is a way to make the car class system in LFS closer to reality, and at the same time funnier to race with, more interesting for people who would like to specialize in car tuning (not ricer tuning, but making a car have more performance) and also that would give a boost to the community. In real life, it isn’t the car makers (LFS devs) that decide what are the car rules and restrictions for a league or an event. Is it the FIA (CTRA
) or local organizations (Westminster’s Side Car Cross Association) that defines rules and restrictions. Contestants (players) must then comply to the rules and tune their car to achieve the best performance while following their rules. This can go from engine tuning, to suspension tweaking, brakes, etc. If everything of these were allowed to players, and if LFS gave server hosts a mean to check if players followed and eventually have an automatic feature of forcespec or autokick/autoban (not a gameword ) if they didn’t comply to these rules. Server hosters may then create custom leagues, with different spec restrictions that are different from one another, and closer to what Real Life league organization is.A list of points that would make this suggestion possible and great:
-Allow players to perform engine tuning (changing intake diameter, intake or exhaust pipe diameter, possibility to add a turbo or a supercharger), engine tweaking (changing displacement, bore/stroke ratio, number of valves, number and type of camshaft) and engine swapping. A lot of options would be complicated and take time to add, but is some major where already available in a Beta way, it will be nice
-Allow a freed transmission (number of gears) and layout tuning (in order to create either WRC or rallycross/rallyoval machines).
-Allow players to perform weight (add/remove seats, add/remove roll-cage, etc.) and chassis (change material, change the size) tuning, which will result in very different weight repartition schemes.
-Allow players to change the aeroperformance of the car (allowing people to install bodykits or spoilers that have an aero effect. ß plus, you can let them choose between several ones, so that ricers will be satisfied and let the improvement forum chill out a bit
)-Allow everycar to wear all the tire types.
-Remove the XRR, FXR, FZR, UFR, XFR (because they are already tuned, and if people were able to tune their car to have equal specs, they are then useless), eventually LX6 (because it can be considered as a tuned LX4).
-So (for tin tops), there will only be the following cars: UF1, XFG, XRG, LX4, XRT, FXO, RB4, RAC, FZ5
-Add other road going cars to give more diversity to the game: an American classic muscle (Camaro 1967 or Mustang GT 1968), a coupe sedan cruiser (Mercedes CLK for creating DTM, etc), a 4-wheel-steer (Nissan, Jeep, or Renault Laguna GT), an American sport muscle (Corvette/Viper), a low-power midship (Toyota MR2 mkII-like), a supercar midship (some Ferrari). For all of these cars, plus the existing one, allow the existing customization, plus the points I mentioned above.
-Give Server hosts the ability to chose which kind of customization will be allowed in their server. For example : stock engine or modified engine (allow turbo or not, maximum number of cylinders, maximum displacement, intake mods or not, etc), stock chassis or modified chassis (compulsory roll cage, stock seats), stock body or modified body (no aero, or bodykits but no ground effects spoilers), transmission, suspension, allowed tires, etc. And for each of these, allow them to choose maximal and minimal values.
-Provide them with pre-made options : Full Stock, Pro stock (little engine, chassis, suspension mods), Rally (rollcage and copilot compulsory, minimal weight of 800 kilos, etc..), Trackday (Pro stocks allowing slicks) etc..
-This done, server hosts, league hosts will be able to provide a custom car-class system that will give players a serious and closer to real life experience of what trackday, amateur, semi-pro and professional racing is.
-The same can be done with the different formulas (providing a “basis”), but I can’t tell a thing on this, because my formula knowledge is very limited.
Thank you for reading this (long) thread, and please leave constructive comments and discuss this suggestion. Feel free to answer the poll and I thank everyone for the support you will provide
This suggestion hasn't got anything to do with car handling or maximum lock or anything else.
What the OP means is :
- The Ingame 3D model of the (steering) wheels of XRG (for instance) has a lock of 720° (360° in each side).
- His hardware steering wheel has got a maximum lock of 270° (135° in each side).
- When he turns his hardware wheel by (let's say) 90° to the left, the ingame 3D steering wheel models turns by more than 90°. The ratio is, for instance, 90°/135° (2/3), which means, the ingame 3D model will turn 2/3 of 360 to the left, so 240°.
- Then, what he wants is to allow the model to have the same rotation angle as his hardware one (meaning that when he turns 90° to the left, the wheel will turn 90° and have the same maximum lock of 135°), but keeping the same wheels' (the one with tires) lock.
So, as a "résumé", when he turns 135° to the left, the XRG wheels (front ones) will keep their lock of 36°, but the 3D steering wheel will turn 135° instead of 360° (which will change by no means the handling of the car, it will just change how does your cockpit steering wheel model turns).
What the OP means is :
- The Ingame 3D model of the (steering) wheels of XRG (for instance) has a lock of 720° (360° in each side).
- His hardware steering wheel has got a maximum lock of 270° (135° in each side).
- When he turns his hardware wheel by (let's say) 90° to the left, the ingame 3D steering wheel models turns by more than 90°. The ratio is, for instance, 90°/135° (2/3), which means, the ingame 3D model will turn 2/3 of 360 to the left, so 240°.
- Then, what he wants is to allow the model to have the same rotation angle as his hardware one (meaning that when he turns 90° to the left, the wheel will turn 90° and have the same maximum lock of 135°), but keeping the same wheels' (the one with tires) lock.
So, as a "résumé", when he turns 135° to the left, the XRG wheels (front ones) will keep their lock of 36°, but the 3D steering wheel will turn 135° instead of 360° (which will change by no means the handling of the car, it will just change how does your cockpit steering wheel model turns).
The difficult stuff in allowing engine tuning is : How much do you allow people to tweak their engine while respecting the car class system ?
Actually, most of the car classes in LFS are developped upon the power to weight (bhp/ton) ratio of the cars : XRG/XFG have got around 125 / Tbo around 206 / the only class that is a bit tricky to understand is the LRF (where cars have such a so high difference in bhp/ton ratio that i don't understand how they made it a class --> maybe because of close laptimes ?)
This, even if it is a good idea, is really hard to get balanced. Speaking of "simple" things like bore/stroke ratio, keeping the same displacement can have "HUGE" effects of the engine's power and behavior. The easiest way to understand is checking the motorcycles engines : check for the Harleys (where stroke>>>bore) that have a few hp but A LOT of torque, or check the japanese inline 4 (stroke=bore - called square engines), with a few torque and high hp. You can see also in motorsport racing engines called super square (where stroke<bore) which develop huge amounts of hp (check some race series in japan and you'll see how they're able to pull 250hp from a N/A 1600cc engine).
So, if you allowed that, everybody will tweak their engine to the most powerful ones, and this would result in a totally unbalanced race for people who didn't change it, or changed it differently.
Plus, let's think with the racer mind. Why do people tune their car performance (engine plus suspension) when they sign in for leagues or clubraces ? Handling tuning is easy to understand : it's to obtain the optimal behavior while driving, increasing either cornering speed, endurance, etc. For engine, it is simple. Leagues, series, ponctual events have rules. Then, in order to have chances to win, you need to optimize your car following the rules in order to get the best time or place you can. The cars in LFS are actually tuned to follow the rules imposed by the fictionnal category/class they belong in.
For instance, the XRG/XFG class rule are : Stock engine/Stock Interior/Stock tires - Free transmission, free suspension, etc. As a contrary, the XRR, isn't a road/stock car like the XRG or the XRT : it is a tuned version of the XRT following restrictions close to a GT (I don't know which is the closest between GT2, GT3 or GT4, but certainly not GT1 for you can't really modify the engines) real life series. It has a bigger turbo, the bore-stroke ratio has been changed, the weight have been reduced, slicks, aerodynamics and custom exhausts are allowed, rollcage is compulsory, etc. This is a tuned car, tuned to fit the (implicit) minimum requirements under the (explicit) rules of the category.
This leads to my final point, if LFS wants to allow full tuning of the car, then you need a complete revamp of the car system and of the multiplayer community. You will remove all the GTR and the BabyGTR (because they are tuned), and maybe the LX6 because it can be considered as an upgraded version of the LX4. For tiptops, you'd only have the choice between : UF1, XFG, XRG, LX4, RB4, FXO, XRT, RAC, FZ5. You will be free to change everything you want in your car, but to keep the race balanced, when a player hosts a server, HE will impose, via the server option list, the rules of the race/league/serie, instead of having all-made classes.
For example, he can choose whether he allows engine tuning, transmission tuning, engine swapping, turbo'ing, by choosing between premade options like :
- Stock engine (tick) or engine modding (max displacement, max number of cylinders, standard configuration, removing turbo, adding turbo, bore-stroke ratio, number of valves)
- Handling modding (Suspension, wheels, direction)
- Transmission modding (Stock or new transmission layout, fixed gears, different final drive)
- Car modding (making the car lighter options : minimum number of seat, minimum weight, etc).
If everything of these options are available to server makers, and if different cars are available to players, THEN, and only THEN, engine tuning could be implemented and could bring some serious gaming and community experience and put some more diversity (because of the homemade restrictions to car resulting in virtually infinite possibilities of ruled series or events), WITHOUT denaturing the initial spirit of the wonderful experience that Live For Speed is.
(Please, do not copy paste this post to a new suggestion thread, I copyrighted it, and if someone needs to post it, it's me, however i'm not sure, I haven't finished thinking about every possibilities of this patch and how make them closer to what LFS is If you do that, I'll find you and make you eat your own balls )
Actually, most of the car classes in LFS are developped upon the power to weight (bhp/ton) ratio of the cars : XRG/XFG have got around 125 / Tbo around 206 / the only class that is a bit tricky to understand is the LRF (where cars have such a so high difference in bhp/ton ratio that i don't understand how they made it a class --> maybe because of close laptimes ?)
This, even if it is a good idea, is really hard to get balanced. Speaking of "simple" things like bore/stroke ratio, keeping the same displacement can have "HUGE" effects of the engine's power and behavior. The easiest way to understand is checking the motorcycles engines : check for the Harleys (where stroke>>>bore) that have a few hp but A LOT of torque, or check the japanese inline 4 (stroke=bore - called square engines), with a few torque and high hp. You can see also in motorsport racing engines called super square (where stroke<bore) which develop huge amounts of hp (check some race series in japan and you'll see how they're able to pull 250hp from a N/A 1600cc engine).
So, if you allowed that, everybody will tweak their engine to the most powerful ones, and this would result in a totally unbalanced race for people who didn't change it, or changed it differently.
Plus, let's think with the racer mind. Why do people tune their car performance (engine plus suspension) when they sign in for leagues or clubraces ? Handling tuning is easy to understand : it's to obtain the optimal behavior while driving, increasing either cornering speed, endurance, etc. For engine, it is simple. Leagues, series, ponctual events have rules. Then, in order to have chances to win, you need to optimize your car following the rules in order to get the best time or place you can. The cars in LFS are actually tuned to follow the rules imposed by the fictionnal category/class they belong in.
For instance, the XRG/XFG class rule are : Stock engine/Stock Interior/Stock tires - Free transmission, free suspension, etc. As a contrary, the XRR, isn't a road/stock car like the XRG or the XRT : it is a tuned version of the XRT following restrictions close to a GT (I don't know which is the closest between GT2, GT3 or GT4, but certainly not GT1 for you can't really modify the engines) real life series. It has a bigger turbo, the bore-stroke ratio has been changed, the weight have been reduced, slicks, aerodynamics and custom exhausts are allowed, rollcage is compulsory, etc. This is a tuned car, tuned to fit the (implicit) minimum requirements under the (explicit) rules of the category.
This leads to my final point, if LFS wants to allow full tuning of the car, then you need a complete revamp of the car system and of the multiplayer community. You will remove all the GTR and the BabyGTR (because they are tuned), and maybe the LX6 because it can be considered as an upgraded version of the LX4. For tiptops, you'd only have the choice between : UF1, XFG, XRG, LX4, RB4, FXO, XRT, RAC, FZ5. You will be free to change everything you want in your car, but to keep the race balanced, when a player hosts a server, HE will impose, via the server option list, the rules of the race/league/serie, instead of having all-made classes.
For example, he can choose whether he allows engine tuning, transmission tuning, engine swapping, turbo'ing, by choosing between premade options like :
- Stock engine (tick) or engine modding (max displacement, max number of cylinders, standard configuration, removing turbo, adding turbo, bore-stroke ratio, number of valves)
- Handling modding (Suspension, wheels, direction)
- Transmission modding (Stock or new transmission layout, fixed gears, different final drive)
- Car modding (making the car lighter options : minimum number of seat, minimum weight, etc).
If everything of these options are available to server makers, and if different cars are available to players, THEN, and only THEN, engine tuning could be implemented and could bring some serious gaming and community experience and put some more diversity (because of the homemade restrictions to car resulting in virtually infinite possibilities of ruled series or events), WITHOUT denaturing the initial spirit of the wonderful experience that Live For Speed is.
(Please, do not copy paste this post to a new suggestion thread, I copyrighted it, and if someone needs to post it, it's me, however i'm not sure, I haven't finished thinking about every possibilities of this patch and how make them closer to what LFS is
If you do that, I'll find you and make you eat your own balls )As you say, LFS is a driving simulator, then it aims for maximum realism. Because it isn't finished yet, you still have problems with the physic engine. Even if using a locked diff isn't an exploit (because you don't benefit of a glitch of the physics engine), it is way unrealistic compared to happens in real life. Locked differentials are used mainly for drag racing, and I'm not able to find in my memories any other motorsport that uses them as a fundamental setup.
In real life, a LSD setupped car acheives better times than a locked diff. LFS is meant to be the racing experience closest to life. Then LFS has to do everything to make the differentials and the tires acheive results like in real life : WHBD (what has been demonstrated).
To get back to your point : "Use everything you have to be faster." . Then, why don't you take LFSTweak and put a 2.6L V6 turbo'ed in the XRT ? you'll for sure be faster... Even if your mentality is understable for casual games, you might have not grasped the essence of LFS : it isn't just about being faster, LFS is mostly meant to allow people to enjoy the fun of racing if they cannot afford it. I am not here to judge, but if you aim only for the results, being fast and first, then I am afraid you miss a great part of the Live For Speed experience.
I get your point. However, many setups that have low braking force are made for controller with an on/off type of controls (mouse, some pads, etc).
I have always raced with a quite high locking value (depending of course of the weight of the car, its drivetrain layout and its brake bias regarding it). I do this only because it is a way to train my right foot to find the perfect braking spot for each corner and to allow myself to control it without moving too much the feet when heel-toeing.
Thus, people who drive a wheel and use a low braking force will be likely to end up with slower time. Because they WILL have to brake earlier, and when trailbraking their lines will be disturbed by that. They will also have to rely even more on the engine brake, which will lightly harm their engine and they will have even lower time due to engine wear.
So let the brakes as they are, they're just fine
Anyway, braking is the hardest technique to master in every motorsport, so if you are motivated to brake well, while other don't, just focus on training with high brakes settings Is there any sense in your sentence at all ?
I'm sorry, but you are the headless chicken here. What's the point between 4 wheel drift is false and they don't have huge angles in D1GP?
Look at LeMans races under rain, you'll see that their four wheel lose grip after the apex of the hairpin and they get an angle of about 7-8° through it.
The basic idea of the 4 wheel drift is : oversteer-->understeer (like grip) : you progressively lose grip of the rear wheels at the beginning of the corner till the apex, then you reaccelerate and progressively lose the grip of the front wheels while progressively regaining it at the rear wheels.
In theory simple as ABC, in real condition, it requires some guts and skills to do it.
And this is fastest. to say in a universe you can understand, look at Saiko D's setups. They are the best drift team ever and their setup are really understeery under acceleration, which makes them go faster while still sideways.
So don't be rude unless you have the elements to counter the point of any guy. It just makes you appear as an ignorant preck.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG