Hehe nice info becky looks like your Christmas vacation was short lived =P

You could also say that you can make a FWD oversteer intentionally, which I have done on many occasions.


ehh whats the argument about again?

ohh I know, it's about GT4 "simulating" racecars.

I definatly agree that in GT4 the cars are glued to the track for the most part and the lower powered vehicles don't spin easy. But if they did behave like real cars why would people play? Especally with joysticks... I mean jeez I know many peopel that play gt4 with the arrow pad and the buttons! crazy thing is they are almost as fast as me =P

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

AHH, that's what he was talking about.

Well, he missed the context. How many people out there would instinctively mash the throttle to induce oversteer & save a car plowing through (away from) a bend?

Most people I see are still on the brakes hard until they stop =P

Heya, now that I am perminently in the UK I was wondering if anyone wanted to get together for a Karting event?

Here is a little track near Oxford

http://www.kartingoxford.co.uk/

Prices are reasonable IMO I am also willing to head to Milton Keynes and race at Daytona there but they are more expensive

Any ideas, thoughts? I realize this time of year isn't perfect but I am itching to get into a seat of some kind, at least until my car gets here =)

Last edited by Viper93, Wed 13 Dec 2006, 09:54.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Any RWD production car will understeer unless you (pretty much intentionally) induce oversteer anyway. The average dolt comming into a corner too hot will understeer in any normal RWD regardless. Manufacturers intentionally build understeer into production vehicles for - (dramatic pause) Safety Reasons(TM).

"nod" =)

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Gee guys, not sure about this. Todd posted some pretty conclusive reasons and knowledge on tire behaviour indicating that a tire really should not lose much (read: almost none) grip past their peaks - at least not without the ratio being extreme, which (laterally) would be pretty hard to acheive. I'll see if I can find it shortly.

JTBo, if you like spinning play GTR2

I thought that in the end it was that LFS left a bit too much grip, not much, but a little. I don't think there is anything wrong with spinning in LFS, maybe a bit more for the racecars but the roadcars feel good =)

Hmm, I don't know. I think one big difference from LFS to RL, besides there some things missing in LFS, is that you can alter the setup alot making a much more stable car. If you took a setup you would find on a car coming off the showroom I think you would find it much easier to spin.

I think what you could be referring to is the ablity of the tires in LFS to maintain grip well past their maximum slip angle, that would cause cars in LFS to spin slow, IMO. There I would agree that the tires in LFS grip too much past maximum slip angle. But it's not that slow in LFS as it is...

Quote from Gunn :

It's about time that some developers realise that it takes much more to make a race sim than just putting the word "simulator" on the retail packaging. Customers could benefit from that realisation too.

Didn't Pole Position call itself a simulator back in it's day? =P *joke har har har*


honestly if you think GT4 is a simulator your on crack...

There is one important thing missing in LFS that will never be in the game for almost every driver... G'Forces. The road cars spin closely to RL cars, not perfect but close... the reason it seems slower in the game is because you do not have any forces acting on your body throwing it around making things appear faster.

Watch this video... http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=16167 and tell me how that is faster than in the game...

Crazy.... and STUPID!

Quote from Michel 4AGE :

That's a nice curve there. It actually has power under the curve, instead of just a peak number.

Yup I LOVE it! sooo smooth even with the turbo, there is minimal turbo lag partly because of the torque generated on top of having a tiny turbo that boosts 14PSI. It's an awesome engine in general too having all internals suitable to run up to the stage 3 turbo kit via the factory for 355 HP. People say that turbo engines don't last... this engine for people have been ticking perfrectly at over 100k miles! I also have a 7 year factory warrenty with my 05 SRT-4 ACR. Not to mention it's the fastest production FWD you can buy in the world =)

Most cars you get a kick in the butt at 3k when you ramp up the cam but this engine is perfectly smooth and pulls just like a V8, you can't beat it. And I still get 30MPG cruising. I have yet to downshift for hills, not once. Even when I went from Wisconsin to Florida through the mountains. You cannot beat this engine.

Big reason they are popular is because they are so cheap. Not because they have HP, thats not a very incorrect statement saying that Honda's have horsepower.... well many FWD's for that matter.

I think it would be wise to listen to Mike Nostra. I have seen Honda dyno's they are nothing spectacular and deffinatly don't belong in a race engine...

Here is a dyno of what a race engine should look like, granted it's not perfect and depends on how you drive but this would be very drivable

http://www.dragtimes.com/2004- ... -Results-Graphs-8832.html

Quote from tristancliffe :

Whilst the S2000 engine in undoubtedly 'clever', it's appaling for a road engine. All revs and not much go. I'd much rather have a few less revs and a few more lb.ft. Unfortunately Honda love seeling horsepower, and seem to be using higher and higher revs to acheive this (at the expense of midrange torque).

In the real world Nissan and Toyota (for Japanese manufacturers) are far superior to Honda in terms of useability and A-B performance. All in my opinion, of course.

I agree =)

As for 4 cylinders here is the new SRT-4 engine specs

2.4 litre i4

Horsepower 300 HP at 6,000 rpm
torque 260 lb.-ft between 2,000 and 6,000 rpm

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/0 ... the-300-hp-caliber-srt-4/

Ok, thanks, that's what I wanted to hear =) I understand why you have increase cold pressure for a cold day. But I didn't know that pressures are not used to effect tire temps. I do realize that compounds aswell as driving style and track conditions effect temps but I was always under the impression that you could adjust pressures to adjust temps. Maybe I had been watching too much NASCAR while I grew up =P

Well I should rephrase that =P if the tire is in overheating over the whole tire I would increase pressure, not decrease it. I would also look at how I was driving but still =P

I understand what you said tristian and I practice that. I am not getting why though you would increase pressure to make the tires heat quicker, physics is telling me the oposite. I can understand that it's because you want to counteract the absense of pressure buildup that you would get during a race that would prevent the sidewall form flexing too much, but increasing pressure, in itself wouldn't increase tire temperature. I could see it though if it meant that you could run a corner a bit harder, hmm maybe thats where I am missing the boat? =P

I am crap at saying what I want to say =(

Quote from mpn89 :

But it will be at the wrong pressure and will heat up at the wrong places.

Tyres are designed to reach their optimum shape and work most efficiently within a certain (narrow) pressure envelope, outside of it they won't work good. A tyre at the optimum pressure can be worked harder than a tyre at the wrong pressure because you get the most out of it.

When the ambient and track temperature is lower, do you run higher pressures or lower pressures? You run higher pressures because the tyre needs to reach it's optimum pressure. Same goes for a short qual-run - a slightly higher pressure than used for a race means you'll reach your optimum for your first flying lap. If you run the same pressure for the race you'll be fast for the first few laps but then fade off.

In LFS the pressure envelope seems way too large - if you were to run low pressures for qual IRL you'd end up overheating the tyre shoulders and never been at the optimum pressure = never at the fast pressure. And for a race IRL the pace drops if you have high pressures because the center overheats too much.

I still don't see this. Less pressure you will have more grip, more grip you will have more heat, heating the tires faster. You cannot go too low because of cupping and sidewall flex, but still.

I understand that because you don't have a ton of time during a quali session to bring up tire temp, you will not have time to bring the ambient temperature of the air inside the tire up, but surely a cold tire a optimum pressure would have less traction than a tyre at optimum temperature. I have always shot for proper temperatures and never worried what my pressures were, for a race I always had to up my pressure to reduce tyre temps compaired to a quali setup.

I am not arguing, this is how I understand this and I want to know why you think the oposite, your reasoning doesn't make sense to me, anyone else help me?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Nice!

Kid - Does the wind affect the temp of the road surface?

Sort of O/T: You know what would be cool? An official dev-compiled text highlighting all the cool features of LFS that we don't really know about - save for folklore and conjecture amonst ourselves. Would show us which "features" are psychosomatic and probably make us look like fools for A) thinking it's better than it is and B) not knowing how good it really is.

:nods: This would be nice =)

Quote from danowat :

Fair play, but we (I) still haven't proved if LFS fuel consuption is effected by tyre pressures (however little it may be)

Then what are you doing posting? =P I think you have but you didn't do enough laps to verify.

Quote from Hyperactive :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=279904#post279904

Thanky Hyperactive, for a second there I thought I was going insane =P

mpn89 I don't know how you drive but your comment is backwards and should be the other way around. A lower pressured tyre will increase rolling resistance, resistance creates heat, thus bringing the tyre up to temperature quicker.

Another problem with testing road tires in LFS is that the sidewalls do not break down. In autocross and track-days almost everyone puts their pressures up to 40-45 PSI cold to prevent sidewall deflection,which is done in LFS but Deflection causes the plys in the tire to rub against each other breaking the plys down, which from what I understand is not done in LFS.

I am not understanding this correctly I think. I was always under the impression that for maximum top speed you wanted at little rolling resistance as possible. From physics class I can say that resistance prevents things from accellerating. I realize in limited traction envoirments that you want as much resistance as possible to keep glued to the track, but with a pure top speed run you would want as little as possible because at near top speed you are not really using that much traction as your not accelerating that fast for the most part and you would want as little rolling resistance as possible?

thanks Jeff for making that a big clearer =)

Last edited by Viper93, Tue 5 Dec 2006, 17:45.

American cars as a whole cannot compete with the Japanese =) Granted the newer american cars are much better than they were, but they still have a ways to go for the most part. Civics are great cars and you cannot beat their reliability but I would never have one for a racecar =)

Jamexing, I reread your post about your dampers, I have tokico allumina's, that Dodge put on my car factory, that are 5 way adjustable and at high compression and rebound rates the valving inside the strut releases the pressure and lets the spring oscilate creating a very smooth ride, while still being stiff. I absolutly love it, you explained why beautifully =)

Well if your running a Raid-0 I donno, I was running 1280x1024. I need to test it again. I am also running dual video cards, I don't know if that will make a difference, they are only 6600's

Quote from Becky Rose :

The problems with quality are in the capture, I will experiment with mip mapping, it's fully one way or the other (not sure which) because I felt it messed up alpha'd textures like railings. I will experiment a little on that one, I am also working hard on trying to get my existing machine to handle the capture in 32bit without upgrading the CPU (which I cannot afford) as the chip I have was only ever meant to be temporary until about this time (dual core 4400 1mb cache), it's not up to the spec of the rest of the machine and can't handle the real time captures. 32bit will help a lot!

It's true that the DVD version does need to be paid for, because obviously it has a very tangeable cost of production involved. In terms of quality it's taken from the ~7gb masters, but by the time it's in DVD format I personally dont think it's much better than the MQ stream. It's commemorative, and intended really for those involved, and I will be working on some nice packaging designs and maybe even a little race program to go inside if possible. I've just mastered the first disk (rounds 1 to 3) and i've put a lot of work into the menu's and stuff, it's all quite nice, but I never really imagined it taking off as something the public would buy tbh, but i'll give the option .

Quality is something i'm trying to improve step by step, but it's pointless flaffing around with the same video, I make small improvements each time, it's a rellentless quest that runs side by side with the series itself. I hope this broadcast is the best yet in terms of quality, and next race I will try to improve a little again .

I have an AMD64 3800plus with 2 gig of Ram, I also have dual raptor HHD's raided 0 I have captured, with fraps, a full start at 32bit w/sound full screen at about 45 FPS. I am not sure if you need a new processor or some more throughput to you HHD/s

The quality is good for only being 500meg IMO, a bit grainy but you already said you mip mapping and bias so goodluck =P

Quote from Jakg :

There is a DVD quality version, but it comes out at the end and you WILL have to pay for it

BUT it will be worth EVERY penny =P

I have held my SRT-4 into a "drift" for a good 5-10 seconds. I called it a FWD drift to my brother as it feels totally different than a RWD drift.


I let off the throttle, turned the wheel and when the car started to go around I applied throttle to hold the spin though the corner while reducing a bit of the wheel input.

I like bob's explanation of it. It's totally different than a powerslide drift but it's still "drifting" or going way past the maximum slip angle of the tires.

Great video Becky! Video quality was good, but like it was said before that the aliasing was off, but still was great coverage and a huge step up from race 3. I cant wait to see what Race 5 will bring! =)