Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I am really slow.

I remember this ritual from the last meet... And I remember feeling roundly hustled as I crossed the line in last place

Quote from Jakg :

Someone please give me a REASON as to how Drifting = Racing. All i've heard so far is that you are "called" a Racer when you enter a competition. That's not exactly an argument, is it...?

LOL.. The only reason it matters is for certain forum members to ringfence appropriate use of LFS in a somewhat ... clingy (lousy word but it seems to fit...) ... manner.

Quote :

Its Live For Speed, not Live For Drift, its a racing sim not a drift sim!!

Sweet. Holy. Mother. Of. Christ....

LFS meet anyone? I know a great brothel that will do a deal on bulk handjobs... Trust me, this debate would never appear on the forums again if you abandoned yourselves to a seasoned practitioner of tantric massage.

For just one afternoon.

Please?

I think most have missed the thread starter's point, which is that different materials have different behaviours when kicked up by the tyres.

You could extend this and say that grass is not simply a slippier version of tarmac (as seems to be the case in LFS). Tyres leave skidmarks on tarmac, but leave ruts in grass; an accumulation of skidmarks might create a grippier line whereas an accumulation of ruts presents a serious hazard.

Ultimately this is really about how the environment is simulated, not a question of having more or less smoke.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

They have signs in the airports now telling you that you're not allowed to make jokes about bombs or they'll kick you out and ban you from the airport. It's hard though - jokes about bombs just slip out unconsciously...

Oh sweet jesus, unless you want to miss your flight and spend at least one day in the company of people who have nothing better to do than search your most intimate cavities, do not mention the word bomb, anything that rhymes with bomb, or anything that might onomatopoeically allude to a bomb. Humourless ****s, all of them...

Anyway, really enjoyed the last meet, so, health and finances permitting, would be very interested in this too.

Quote from Glenn67 :

My father used to race a mini at the speedway back in the '70s, he ran it with welded locked diff, front and rear sway bars, modifed camber and was on slicks, so similar to alot of sets in LFS.

A mini? So that was fwd? Or was it converted to rwd? Just asking since I'm still interested to know about fwd and locked diffs (in the real world... )

Quote from AndroidXP :

If real racers don't use locked diffs for whatever reasons, so shouldn't LFS racers.

Matk Donohue swore by the locked diff, even in the 917/30 (after a great deal of arguing with the porsche's designers, I'd guess), but I suppose this is something that comes down to driving style, its not something you can be authoritarian about - if you like driving with huge amounts of understeer on entry and huge amounts of oversteer on exit, then locked diffs are a perfectly valid set up option.

EDIT:
Just been thinking about this... And I'm not really that technically minded in terms of set ups ... So perhaps someone can confirm my assumption: a locked diff is going to be more favourable to a style that includes lots of late trail braking and power-on oversteer... less steering input? That said, a locked diff in LFS is ONLY unrealistic when applied to a FWD car?

Last edited by nihil, Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:21.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I just speed - then the odd mph here or there doesn't matter

QTF!

The stuff abpout the mini-map got me thinking - I rarely look at it, but....

Quote from FL!P :

Oh come on! The map is the only substitute we have to pit radio and track marshalls.

QTF too.

Much of the discussion about these things has very little to do with the quality of simulation, but more about the nature of role play, the quality of the 'game'.

Simulation is all about the relationship between input and feedback. How you get that feedback is an essential part of the simulation, but all the same, being always in the realm of representation means it will always be subjective. I know I'm fairly alone on this forum in that I really don't care about the role-play aspect. It doesn't matter to me how the feedback is represented, just so long as its represented clearly.

Hmmmm... Just thinking aloud... It interests me how stuck simulation gamers are, on the quality of 'naturalism' rather than what I see as 'realism'.

Quote from joen :

Pointing out something else being unrealistic too doesn't make the feature in question any more realistic.

Never used this digital speedo thing, so have no opinion one way or the other... Just confused... How is a digital speedo unrealistic?

Don't say anyzing and look slowly to ze right.... Is zat a mclaren engineer under ze car??

Quote from Linsen :

And how do you know how alright the devs are doing? Do you really think they couldn't use a little more money, maybe?

Couldn't we all? But my point was exactly that the only reasons ever given by the "demo is too good" contingent (who frankly whine just as much as the other side) are:

• Because that's what a demo(nstration) is supposed to do sort of by definition [sort of = not really. Demos demonstrate and the LFS demo demonstrates very well what LFS does]
  
• Because that's all that the demo needs to do [which again begs the question, "what is so wrong in doing more than what is presumed to be needed?" How will it actually benefit development to do less?]
  
• Because hordes of people will flood to S2 if you .... [yeah, well, we've dealt with that one. And we all know that having more money, more resources, more ... of anything isn't going to make the development of LFS proceed any faster anyway]

Perhaps its time to drop the word 'demo'. Why not, indeed, call it LFS Lite? It certainly won't be the first program to abuse the word 'light', in such a way.

Quote from JTbo :

No it is realistic, it is your call, would you like to see road or speedo?

Would be very useful to be able to set a button or key to focus the view on a particular aspect of the cockpit (perhaps this can be done anyway?) - then the question is irrelevant.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

....and the body language of the car it looked spookily like they were... enjoying it!

Ha ha...all this will be irrelevant when you fire up LFS and the AI says, "I don't really agree with your choice of combo, Dave. My on-board memory store is more than capable of handling all the mission requirements. Take a stress pill and remove yourself from the track, Dave. I wouldn't want anything to happen to you, Dave."

Quote from mrodgers :

But this shows a more correct FOV representation over all those who claim that their giant FOV numbers are correct....

I like your comparisons even though they only show me what your camera sees and not what your eyes see. It is not a matter of what is correct, but what is useful.

Quote from sinbad :

...and that's all the demo should do...

Why?

Because that's the way demos have always been? I've asked this question before, but haven't received an answer that isn't purely speculative. The demo works. Scawen gets to test drive a single seater, someone bought a new kitchen, blah blah... In short, the devs are doing alright, have a good standard of living, and don't need anyone to look after their income. They are quite capable of making reasoned choices.

And where is it written that restricting supply necessarily increases demand?

Quote from mcintyrej :

Trail braking (i think i said that right) is done by applying the throttle while braking, somehow helping to stop the car better (i don't know the technicalities, it just works).

Quote from BlueFlame :

Oh, no Trail Braking is when you are braking with the engine and turning all in the same motion I believe,

Its OT now, but thought I'd just correct both statements - trail braking is simply keeping the brakes applied past the turn in point and gradually easing pressure on the pedal as you approach the apex.

It shortens the distance before the turn during which you need to apply the brakes and can induce some oversteer (this is what's meant by steering with the brakes). Amongst other things, keeping the throttle applied (AKA left foot braking) is a way of controlling that oversteer.

Quote from Burnzoire :

The Demo is a *complete product* for many users, that in itself is a BIG mistake.

I disagree, and have elaborated why elsewhere. But I reckon the addition of a single seater to the demo is a good idea... Not for the spiteful and adolescent reason that its one in the eye for the drifters [rolls eyes upwards], but for the reason that it makes the demo more balanced... A fwd car, a rwd, and an aero assisted car. Makes loads of sense to me...

Quote from hrtburnout :

Wow, that's scary :faint:

I posted a link to the 2007 Ulster GP earlier in this thread, but its been taken down now... So here's the superstock race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuO2WFVZPVw

Last edited by nihil, Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:50.

Quote from tailing :

Apologies if my thoughts are a bit jumbled as I'm really quite drunk atm

Damn sight more clear than most round here.

boyracer1981, don't worry about Tristan, he becomes a parody of himself if you goad him. He's a nice boy really, with an admirably sharp sense of humour, but tries a bit too hard sometimes...

About the line... I never got it to work properly on my machine, but it looks to me like the ghostcar mod, drawing the path (you can see the red braking area in one shot). I mean, someone use some sense - why would the devs add a feature that is already available as a mod? For convenience sake maybe, but why is it such a big deal if the mod is already available?

Quote :

Imo, a circular thing (even a plate) is always closer to a wheel used to steer a car than a devise which has its look from a small critter.

That's probably why you're not a designer. Not to say that 'unusual' means better, just that 'usual' doesn't always mean perfect either.

I've heard about attempts to get linux working on the xbox, but as far as I know its all talk so far.

Manx mutation syndrome begins to present serious aerodynamic disadvantages...

Quote from Gunn :

Anybody who street races should be beaten to death with large pieces of wood that have large rusty nails sticking out of them. If you are racing on a public street you deserve to die. Simple really.

Interesting concept (though bizarrely sexualised - a phallus studded with phalluses?), but can't help feeling that it rather upsets the notion of proportionality in law.

The bottled Guiness imported from Nigeria is really good... This topic has been covered before... Not sure if I was over-estimating it then, but the stuff being sold at my offie seems to have gone down from 8% to 7.5%...

Quote from lizardfolk :

...But before I give my opinion of it what do you guys think?

Am interested in your opinion on the article, lizardfolk. And the personal interest you spoke of.

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Why don't the local drag strips/racetracks hold cheap trackdays so the people can race safely though? If there were more tracks, people would go to them, yes?

DK

Ah bless the French...

Circuit Carole

This is a circuit just outside of Paris. I believe that at certain times of the week it is freely open to motorcyclists who can conform to a bare minimum of rules (decently maintained machine, leathers, etc). Damn good idea...

Quote from JTbo :

If teens get some industrial street closed at night time and race there, I really have much against it, they go there by their will and if they happen to wreck then it is their fault, it is unlikely that innocent people will get involved.

From the context, I guess you mean you don't have much against it, and I have to say I'm completely in agreement with you, as I am with a great deal of the rest of your post.

I used to go to a lot of the motorcycle stunt spots in London; there was a regular, Sunday all-dayer that I used to love. It was a publicly accessible road, but behind an industrial estate, so it was rarely used. Some extremely talented riders would turn up to that spot, but, by its nature of being a space where people were extending themselves and their machines, it was dangerous.

Quote from zeugnimod :

They are still doing something dangerous not only to themselves but to other innocent people so they are still stupid idiots.

No, not idiots. Everyone who turned up to that spot did so with a heightened sense of awareness of the consequences, both legal and physical. To condemn such risk taking as the symptom of a diseased mind is to prioritise anxiety as a control mechanism (and as a guarantor of safety). The problem with this is:

1. that there are benefits to taking risks, even though a majority in society will always be risk-averse
   
2. that there is no such thing as a guarantor of safety in life

So I have to admit that I'm divided on the issue, or to be more precise, I will take things on a case by case basis. As I get older I find that this the way I deal with things: black and white forms of morality fail to explain or even cope with most worldly phenomena. So to answer lizardfolk's original question:

Quote :

I want to know (for personal reasons) where do professional racing fans stand on street racing.

Sometimes its just plain stupid and irresponsible. Sometimes it just has to be.