http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BZWo7f5yI4

In no way did Alonso try to pass that STR, it let him pass. He isn't even reving the engine that hard and his split time is a mile down... It is a slight minor point but when you look back over the season so far the only team to be disadvantaged is Renault and those 3 points to me stand out as not being explained correctly.

Last edited by keiran, Mon 11 Sep 2006, 21:31.

Quote from Hoellsen :

You're making quite a bit of fuss about it for a man who doesnt consider it a sport.

So what? I've watched Formula One for longer than I can remember, followed it closely and I'm only 17.

Like any young karter ask them what they want to do when they are older and most will say race an F1 car. That sport is looked upon by many young hopefuls and is without a doubt probably the most known and classed as top motorsport, well in europe anyway. It gets to a sad state of affaris when the decisions made by a proffessional governing body can't be explained properly and nor can any other driver/team see the wrond doing excpet the red ones.

Attached is an image somone claims it's from the stickers on the Renault laptop, whether that is true or not I don't know but if it's
Keiran

Quote from Honey :

i'm sorry guys but i don't agree! i remember that prepatch there were always some regular servers for tbo (mostly fern green) and xfg (mostly blackwood).
whenever i talk about this argument online many people agree with me, after patch only lrf servers were sometimes populated, but this was a particual case for people seeking for big challenges (and actually i remeber very good battles with rac at bl), maybe it was not the only cause, but i am convinced that it played a big role in the road car less popularity

Pre Patch the ESL UK was in full tide using the TBO class...

Quote from Hoellsen :

While I agree that the decision about Alonso's times is weird, we should not bend facts for past races. Look at the footage of the incident between Heidfeld and MSC again and you will see that it was HEI slipping wide when he made the pass and not MSC causing the touch between the two cars.

Well I was talking about the Schumacher cutting the chicnae to pass Perdo but if you want to go down this lane then take a look at the videos closely and slowly. Schumacher squeezed Nick onto the wet kerb while under full braking power, what else was going to happen? Nick had no reason not to go for it as he was well down the inside.

Quote from Memph1s :

Yep in my opinion is the real world champion 2005 Kimi and Alonso just became world champion because of his Luck and not with his driving skills

What are you on about? So why didn't Fisi challenge the WDC if Alonso wasn't required to use any of his driving skills illepall

Alonso dominated from the start of the season and McLaren failed to get there championship off the ground. Eventually they found pace but also had lots of relability problems.

If you hadn't realised the team play as big a part as the driver in a team sport. It's the whole package that wins.

Not a single person ITV interviewed agreed with this penalty and I'll be watching very closely in the next few qualifying sessions that no car is within 100 metres of each other.

I like how the chicane cutting rule works now since Schumacher got off with it illepall As long as your ahead before you cut the corner it's alright, hell why not just go in super hot so your ahead before you cut the corner

Alonso: I no longer consider F1 a sport - Couldn't put it better myself!

Quote from ORION :

Well, from a distant point of view, and taking psychologial blah blah into account, Alonso seemed to act like a young boy who's mother has forbidden to open the drawer with the chocolate in it. Such a boy would try and first touch the handle, pull it a bit, and always look at his mother's reaction. She will let him go on until a certain point.
I guess Alonso just tried to test the limits, and the Stewards made this penalty just for this testing of limits, which was obviously unnecessary.
Why not just be a fair gentleman and let the faster pass? Its also a bit of arrogance in there, maybe even Gay Flavio forced Alonso to do this....

The rocket start from Renault will put Alonso a couple of places ahead after T1 anyway...

I don't understand this post... Alonso hasn't come out saying anything yet and if he had the Media would have snapped it up.

Alonso was about 100 metres ahead of Massa, in the onboard video you can't even make his car out, I bet Massa didn't even know who it was.

Keiran

Quote from dmwright :

If you look at another thread some 1 is trying to sell a s2 for £19-20. people have suggested to sell it for less or give it away to some one( like some one did to me). so its not my problem your some geek wanting to RULE LFS! what do you want me to do buy 5000 s2's? I think you need to keep out of it like people are saying and stop thinking your head of LFS! I dont need you half the time you dont know what your talking about! Thee are loads of people out to help me. Since i have had s2 given to me you cant face it and u TRIED bulling me (but never worked, i started to bully you). Also your a bit sad spending your life on LFS forum . I bet you wait for a post to come on then reply to it within 5 seconds like your replied to my other topic within 1 min which also includes insults... well i surpise you would.

Matt

Keep on digging, keep on digging.

If someone gave you there S2 account you'd have there username with S2 licensed under it. Now this is where the problem comes when you said these quotes to justify it:


I do have s2 but i dmwright username so we can both post (if you get me)
So this friend has given you his license yet needs to post ...

S2 was given to me by a mate because im doing karting so im puttin every penny to do it, so seen as LFS is a game a friend offered to share S2. He change the forum password and i unlocked it with one of the unlocks at the start of the month!

Please come up with a better excuse, karting is very expensive so I don't believe you can do that and not have £24 spare at some point in your life.

In the end you and your friend are breaking the TOC of LFS and I bet the devs can reserve the right to remove the license as it's effectivley a pirated copy.

Keiran

Quote from DejaVu :

To be fair, they way wings are designed now - turbulent air for the car behind would of been a bit of an issue in the latter sections of the track. Parabolica (spelling?) you could see massa was going wide a touch and lifted, when in previous laps he downshifted and was straight back on the throttle as soon as he had turned in.

Rules are rules - and alonso should, imo, of let him by much earlier. But as he wouldn't of made it round the track in time, he didn't allow massa past - which is understandable.

It's obvious though, that this isn't all massa's doing. Ross is straight in there with his smart head on, getting alonso further back in the grid, and a benefit of this could well be Michael one step closer to taking the championship in his final year.

What are you on about?

Massa was far too far behind to be disadvantaged by Ferrari and the very fact that Ferrari getting off with unfair moves such as Hungary when Schumacher cut the corner to hold position and caused an avoidable accident. Not to mention moving more times than he is allowed to force Alonso to slow down. It's beyond a joke.

Quote :

Symonds furious with Alonso penalty

By Jonathan Noble Saturday, September 9th 2006, 19:12 GMT

Formula One has become too 'politically correct' and the stewards are making inconsistent judgements, a furious Pat Symonds said this evening following the decision to penalise Fernando Alonso and demote him to 10th place on the grid.

The Spaniard had his three fastest laps of the final session in qualifying removed by the stewards, who said he had impeded Ferrari's Felipe Massa in the session today. As a result, Alonso has been demoted from fifth to 10th.

Yet Renault's director of engineering Symonds firmly believes Alonso did not impede the Brazilian, and in fact helped him gain time by getting a tow from the Renault car.

"I don't understand the penalty, because we don't feel we impeded him," Symonds said. "This is a circuit where we are always trying to get a tow - especially in qualifying. Massa was 100 metres behind Alonso, so he got a nice tow, and I don't see it as a hindrance.

"I looked at Ferrari's telemetry, and [Massa] gained time on the back straight and was quicker into Parabolica than before. He lifted in the middle of the corner. To me, it looked like a mistake but he claimed he was losing downforce."

But Symonds was particularly vocal about the influx of penalties handed out this season for blocking in qualifying, and warned that Formula One is stepping away from its core appeal as a racing series.

"It seems that we have forgotten what qualifying was like up until 2003, when half the field complained of traffic," the Briton said. "We seem to have forgotten what racing is about.

"We are so politically correct now, and I don't know what is coming next. Maybe indicators, to see whether drivers want to go left or right?"

He further criticised the stewards' inconsistency, claiming rivals Ferrari have been getting away unpunished with similar infringements.

"It's difficult to fight like this," he stated, "when you see Ferrari changing direction as many times as they wanted before the first corner in Turkey and nothing happens, and then we get penalised like this."

Symonds also stated that Alonso could well have won from fifth place tomorrow, but the penalty has vastly diminished their chances of victory, at such a crucial stage of the championship.

"We had a genuine winning strategy staring from fifth, and it will be a lot harder from 10th," Symonds said.

"Not only because it is so hard to overtake, but because we are in the middle of the pack and a lot happens there on the first lap."

Quote from ajp71 :

So what actually happened? With the current system of running conventional qualifying sessions traffic can be a legitimate issue, assuming Massa was on a flying lap then he would not be required to get out of Alonso's way, and if Alonso banks on one lap per session and Renault mistime the traffic then so be it.

If Massa wasn't on a flying lap then I can understand the issue and can beleive Italian officials being bent as hell towards Ferrari.

You've not read the link me thinks

Massa is claiming that Alonso held him up and cost him three tenths of a second, yet his split times weren't harmed at all and as you can see Alonso is a country mile ahead, Massa can't even see him onboard yet alone get a toe off him.

Alonso crossed the line to start his lap with about two seconds to spare and was on it the minute he left the pits so at no point did he slow down.

This is something I'd excpect to see in the WWE/WWF what ever it's called these days, as it's fake and scripted like the FIA are trying to make this championship.

I just hope Alonso makes it through T1 with all bits intact and can hunt down the cheating German/Ferrari combo.

Quote from Blackout :

Can they now repair Alonso's car without extra penalty? Or would that been allowed without penalty anyway...

They are allowed to do that anyway with no penalty. They are given a limited amount of time that they can work on the car in parc ferme conditions.

haha, imagine him phoning Nvidia in 10 years time. I'll never understand this guy :/, it doesn't appear to be second hand from what he is saying so where's the harm in sending it back under warranty... rather than believing the oh so smart guy who fitted it that broke the effing fan off it (god knows how, was he fitting it with a hammer?)

I guess some are happy to be walked all over and lied to, and there's plenty of people out there who will do that to you.

Keiran

tbh although Vettel is obviously a great driver you still have to wander what the big names like Renault, Ferrari and McLaren could do in the free practice if they had the 3rd car. Last year McLaren pretty much dominated practice with there 3rd car.

There isn't much point in the big teams without a 3rd driver putting more miles on the engine than necessary in a session which doesn't mean anything.

Keiran

Quote from DeKo :

omg i actually hate this thread. i never noticed how much of an idiot he was until i saw this.

"You can wander around the monza banking which formula 1 raced on through the 1960's and 70's"

he's a thick twat, they stopped racing on it in 1961 >_<. shouldnt commentators actually know what there talking about before they spew there crap >_<

Also, mark webber is a f*cking little girl. He keeps going on about how dangerous monza is? try racing in the fangio era, flying round the banking at 180MPH with a bit of cloth for a helmet, not even strapped into the car.

also, are the FIA trying to actually ruin it? This engine freeze is the worst idea ive ever heard. So basically, the performance of the full grid wont change over the next 3 years. minardi will have to keep there engine, which isnt exactly the best, so they have no chance of ever catching. Its amazingly thick.

Minardi's engines stopped turning last year

Yea it's a silly idea, so basically if someone has huge engine troubles they'll either have to a) Turn the revs down to make sure they finish b) Blow up race after race for a few years :/ Can't see the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari, BMW, Renault etc being happy when they are in F1 to show case there ability to make better engines and cars than anyone else.

Keiran

Never been able to play RBR because of my graphics card but finally after reading all these posts I nicked my brothers one, or as he thinks I'm `fixing` his computer.

What an awesome game, can't keep it out of the trees through . Even running the same stage over and over again I constantly kept forgeting about the little dips in the road with lakes running through them.

This just requires so much concentration, it's not like normal circuit racing where you can sort of look away or think of other things because you know exactly whats coming up.

Keiran

Ofcourse it's legal, but personally I doubt you'll find someone willing to give you £20. I'd rather pay the extra £4 and get myself my own username...

Keiran

Quote from Blowtus :

You still have to translate and understand the cues from a real car though...?? If anything I'd have thought I had quicker reactions in LFS because the responses are much more 'pure', I'm not getting all manner of feedback from the car that I don't need at that point in time, I can just feel the wheels... I can also set the ff and steering lock to suitable levels such that I can get the wheel to the right spot more quickly.

I'd think you'd have quicker reactions in real life, the only difference I suppose is you don't have the same physical effort in LFS as you would in a real car. You can feel what the car is doing far easier because you obviously have access to more senses to predict what the car is doing and act quicker.

Oversteer is one which I find a lot easier to feel in real life, although I do feel it very easily in LFS but it's just not the same. Saying that playing other games lateley really made me realise how much better LFS oversteer FFB is. Half the games out there wont even make the steering wheel counter-steer its self like it should.

The problem with any game is after the race I never feel knackered like I would in real life and left thinking wow that was a tough battle, I'm just left thinking that was a pretty good race `shift + r` onto the next one.

Keiran

Last edited by keiran, Fri 8 Sep 2006, 11:03.

Quote from duke_toaster :

There is a system that LFS Lapper uses - it's unscientific - but it's definately a start. After testing on some servers, it could be used well.

The same LFS Lapper the claims I've had a collision even though I'm just spinning my car back around without hitting a single thing

Quote from DeKo :

i just got a 21.6 for monza in the mcmerc, but thats after about 100 laps.

in other news, i think this screenshot is the best screen for a game ive ever seen:


http://img425.imageshack.us/im ... or2006090704251609jm3.jpg

I still think GP4 has the best graphics in most situations. Look at this and thats from a game nearly 5 years old that has no support for chrome effects...

Quote from Sternendaal :

Really,it does all I want from FFB. When driving in the grass,I feel every bump I drive over. At Lienz,driving over the cobblestones,I feel I am driving over that. I feel what the car does,that is all I want from FFB,right

Well you want canned effects then. FFB effects which don't actually relate to exactly what the car is doing. How can you feel bumps through the steering wheel? You can't, you feel that through your body as the car vibrates, the only thing I can think of you'd feel through the wheel is it tugging the front wheels in dips etc. Sorry but those are purely for the immersion factor and I don't think of that as good FFB effects. Hell there not even well done from my experience, felt like I was driving through a mine field and all I had done was put two wheels on the grass

If I wanted that I'd go into windows controler setup and press the buttons on my wheel.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The thing is Blowtus, if you are used to sims you are used to the visual and aural feedback, with a little bit of steering feedback. There are no g-forces to contend with either, or costs/risks involved. Therefore you can learn about how to pass and repass people, how to take lines and how to improve your lap times, just like a real racing driver would. Put a sim racer in a race car and the basic skills they already know, but they to get used to ignoring the noise, heat and buffeting.

A real racing driver has the same skills about learning lines and what have you, but has to do it in a cramped and debilitatingly hot environment, being thrown around by g-forces and restrained by tight fitting seats and belts, with a heavy helmet on. They will be more used to feeling the car the conventional way, through the seat of his pants, through his arms and feet, and via perfectly realistic sounds. Put them in a sim, and they are completely lost at sea, having no 'real' feedback to work with, fake sounds, dodgy force feedback because the technology hasn't improved since the 1980's, silly huds on screen, less sense of speed etc etc.

I think it's MUCH easier for a simmer to drive a real car than a racer to drive a sim (to begin with at least). That is why when GTR fanboys claim it must be good because a real racing driver said so means absolutely nothing. They'll be judging it in the same way an 8 year judges the Harry Potter games.

Spot on.

@Blowtus
My Dad has done loads ranging from Hill Climbing to `superkarts` and has had shots of various cars. He was always up at the top of the charts in hill climbing and hanging on in for the podium positions in `superkarts` (reason for ` as I'm not sure if they were called that back then). Throw him into LFS and he finds it hard going to feel the car and to see where the track goes.

In reality games feel so dull to the real thing. Nothing will ever match the real thing, to contend with the heat, G Forces and the physical impact that all has on you it just makes any game feel arcadey. Personally I find it quite hard to compare lots of aspects of the car handling that I feel through the steering wheel of a kart to what is happening in LFS because naturally I use all my senses in real life. I'm not concentrating on what I feel through the steering wheel but what the whole kart is doing, and I bet thats the same with any racing car.

I remember Tristan saying he'd compare his F3 car to LFS but in the end just couldn't. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong but the reason I can come up with was all the other forces applied to your body just makes it impossible to just feel the forces through the steering wheel.

For me racing karts for 3 years and then driving a road car felt weird. I kind of felt lost and even though my Clio seems quite stiffly sprung I found the power steering to really hamper my feel of the car.

Keiran

Not meaning you Heyen in particular but lately I've seen a lot of people in LFS who seem to have never watched real racing before or not follow it very much, which to me seems weird why they'd buy a game like this.

For example last night someone thought the blue flag meant jump on the brake pedal :s So someone ran right up the rear of him as he jumped on the brakes, on the racing line going down the stright. I've seen people ask "whats a blue flag" and my car is stuck at 50mph etc.

Just seems weird to me that they've bought this game and don't realise why or what things mean :s

Quote from Sternendaal :

In-Game I have selected a pre-set,edited the buttons on my steer to other hotkeys,and the FFB is as good as LFS.

but perhaps that is just mine opinion.

I honestly can't believe someone would say that. I've come across huge rF fanboys (not pointing the finger at you) who will admit LFS trashes rF in the FFB department. When you play an ISI sim the feedback given is just rubbish. Understeer = 0 force and my wheel never ever counter-steers by itself making oversteer impossible to feel. Although not long after saying these sort of comments I get, "you n00b, it's not ISI fault you can't setup your hardware properly. You need to change this and that in the .ini file..."

Quote from csurdongulos :

also the ISI Barcelona track supplied with the new patch is very different from the Simbin versions and that's strange. why can't they recreate a track realistically if they get the rights for it?

Don't think they do have the `rights` which is why they are not naming the real life tracks by there proper names. I still can't understand how they can get off with that

Quote from mandalman :

Just out of curiosity - Are there any LFS players who have experience of real club racing or track days? If so, have you found that skills such as race craft and car control learnt in LFS have improved your driving on real circuits?

My only experience is a day at Mallory Park driving a VW Golf GTi and a Formula Ford SS and that was several years ago although from memory the Formula Ford was easier to keep on the track than the LFS Formula XR

Want to know why the Formula Ford was easier to keep on the track? because you weren't trying to push it as hard as you do the FOX in LFS. Anyone can drive any racing car around a track, it's when you push it to the limit that skill is required to keep it on the track.

LFS has helped me develop my race craft more becuase the amount of races I can do on LFS over a week. I'm constantly trying new things out and if it works I'll carry it on to any racing I do, although I don't really do much these days

I suppose since I do a lot of r/c racing these days I've learnt a few things about car setup and what influences affect what, although most of that was learnt from reading a guide I printed off the net Either way it helps me in LFS and real life.

Keiran