Here ya go sir.. another great site for logos in general IMO



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Becky Rose :

I'm not talking about making billboards sympathetic, i'm talking about taking the concept of advertising - which is going to be an ever more prominent feature of sim racing as it grows - and making it sympathetic to the game, rather than in your face.

Then I guess my time in sim racing is going to be pretty short lived.

Quote :

Resisting and fearing change is a normal reaction. Hating advertising is also a fairly human reaction - particularly for intelligent people, so I respect what you are saying here.

I'm not resisting or fearing change, what I don't want is ads that your operation thinks I want to see rather than what I _actually_ want to see.

Quote :

However, you ALREADY drive past adverts in LFS, and advertising in LFS is entirely sympathetic to what it's trying to achieve.

And if I've painted them all to have pics of Happy Tree Friends? Even if I painted them as other companies, they'd be companies I wanted to see, not what you think I deserve to see because someone paid you to show me.

Quote :

We're just asking for the ability to customise it a little, a bit like you have been doing on your race skins Ian. It's nice that you can go to any server and advertise as you have been doing, but as the people paying for you to do this, we'd like to advertise too.

Big Big BIG difference! Logos I've added to skins are basically for 2 reasons, 1:> because it adds a bit more authenticity to a design as most race cars these days are plastered with ads, 2:> because I'm too lazy to create all my own logos as fictional companies, I've done a few, don't have the time to do everything. Plus, at no point or time have I ever been paid a penny for adding a company logo to a skin, that's a _massive_ difference to what you're proposing.

I don't ask for donations for my sites that benefit visitors more than me personally, I pay for the bandwidth, bought the hardware and share its resources for free. I could easily add some banners or whatever to them, and I have plenty of sites I could utilise for them too, but I don't agree in forcing people to see ads, so they never have and never will contain any kind of paid advertising.

You're also not paying for anything for me.. we have 5 (1 S1) team servers currently (FWIW, being paid for by one of our team members and not asking for people to chip in) and I could personally set up a few more if I wished.. so please don't think I _need_ to race on other people's servers



Regards,

Ian


PS: Sam.. I wouldn't bother.. I'm halfway through a script to hide your posts.. so you may as well save your time.

Last edited by Ian.H, Mon 18 Jun 2007, 20:24.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Would you rather have a realistic billboard ad, or a flashing pop up on your screen?

I already have realistic looking billboards.. how will they be any more realistic just because the paint on them has been pumped from your server rather than my local HDD? I can also paint mine just how I like with _any_ real life company logos, why would it be different just because you get paid to do it?

What you really mean is you (ie: this whole operation, not you personally) don't gain cash.

Quote :

If LFS is to grow and sim racing is to become a sport in its own right then at some point commercial interests will have to be taken into consideration, I think its better that its done sympathetically to the game than to force advertisements onto the user in a manner that they wont like.

"in a manner they won't like"... that for me is anything you want to pump through to me as an advert, so the best way not to annoy people who feel the same about advertising as I do is pretty simple

If this is just for your servers, then I really don't care as it'll never affect me, but will leave the LFS community if it becomes forced in-game by default (not that anyone will care, but if enough felt similar, it could be detrimental).. if there's an option, I'll disable it, but that seems somewhat pointless considering what you'd be trying to achieve.

Face it, this UKCT operation or whatever it's called today isn't ESL and very unlikely to be

If you're strapped for cash, either quit offering public services or charge people to enter your league, that'd be just as realistic. Funny how so many others can offer something to the public without having to ask for sponsorship or donations.. I've been doing it for years so have plenty of others.

Not aimed at you personally Becky.



Regards,

Ian

Last edited by Ian.H, Mon 18 Jun 2007, 16:53.

Use the default skin as the shadow overlay.. set it to the top layer in your gfx app and the transparency style to 'multiply'. The white will become transparent leaving just the shadow gradients affecting your skin design on lower layers



Regards,

Ian

Cool to see this released fel.. must have taken a while and some coffees to do all the col configs



Regards,

Ian

Quote from AndroidXP :

@Ian: I see your point, but it seems you're more protesting against the idea of advertising in principle, while I try to look at the outcomes and implementations that I assume* are actually realistically possible (taking the stance of Scavier into account).

That pretty much nails it.. it's not what method may be used, I simply don't like advertising / commercialism. Obviously race tracks etc in the real world are plastered with them these days unfortunately and it would look strange seeing LFS with nothing but corrugated steel, so the textures we have in the game have been designed in a way to compliment it and give it some realistic atmosphere so to speak.

There's a _big_ difference between having some artwork representing a real life company logo and blatant advertising however

Quote :

You're right, I don't know the ins and outs of day to day marketing, but I don't give a rats ass either .

I don't know too much about _marketing_ per-se, but have worked my nuts off fighting to keep myself and others as free of their trash as possible. It costs me ~2 hours every morning, 7 days a week dealing with unwanted marketing crap, I guess that doesn't help me welcome to this idea.

Quote :

Again you're giving the example of companies paying a hefty sum for advertising that might not even reach the customer. So what? Then they won't buy, or not pay a hefty sum but a much smaller one. Selling whatever method of advertising possible in LFS is job of the server hosts who want to get the money for it - if the "most intrusive" advertising Scawen would implement is not good enough for them, then why should we care.

What could happen?

• They don't buy ads
  Good for us - Bad/neutral for the server host
  
• They buy ads
  Good for us (as we can turn them off) / Good for the server host
  
• Scawen deems the whole thing not important/viable enough and thus leaves it out completely (which is IMO most likely, btw)
  No change whatsoever

Ahh but you're assuming an option again to turn them on and off. I'm assuming there would be no option as it wouldn't be a worthwhile venture then for companies to invest. I only really mentioned that most would disable them after you mentioned having it optional previously. If it's optional, I wouldn't be "complaining" about it as I'd simply disable it, but I'm ssuming it'd be like ads plastered all over web sites where it's not optional, unless you go a specific route to rectify things yourself (noscript / null-routing etc). I just don't see how marketing can ever be profitable if it becomes optional for the end user to see it or not hence I never really considered that an option

Also, think about some of the top named drivers in LFS that are known by many in and possibly outside of LFS with nice team / personal skins with real life company logos on them for "realism", how would a company paying for a texture on a billboard perhaps feel about their competitors being on well known cars on various servers, all for free! Knowing some of the playground politics that does surround the marketing game, this wouldn't be "cool".

Quote :

Yes, I don't like advertising, but I don't see what is so scary about the implementations that could actually happen. The real point however is, we haven't heard a word from Scawen about this, so all this discussing and arguing is just wild and silly theorycrafting from both sides. I on my part will just shut up about that now

* Granted, my argument is based on how I perceive the devs, but I hope I'm not that far off. Of course I could be wrong.

It's not scary.. I don't like fish (eating it) either, but I'm not scared of fish It's all about principle and the way this world is becoming more and more advert crazy.. maybe it's just me, but not so sure



Regards,

Ian

Quote from AndroidXP :

Well, then they won't buy it. I don't think Scawen cares about them. He would (if at all) implement it for the server hosts, because they want the ability to load their ads over the current static ones. Scawen wouldn't sell it to the marketing companies, but implement a feature for his customers.

I think you're missing the point dude.. it's not about what Scawen cares about per-se, it's the fact that some individual who happens to run a server wants to be able to show ads to anyone who connects to line his pockets, like most marketers.

I know LFS isn't all about money.. that's patently obvious when you look at the Intel / Sauber deal with them not agreeing to all requirements.. I'm pretty sure they lost out to an extent on that deal due to it, but it shows their morals.

I haven't even thought about Scawen selling to anyone.. I really don't know where you're getting that idea from.. the most I expect from Scawen in this respect would be the ability to set billboard or whatever materials to be able to be affected dynamically, much like car skins, nothing more, nothing less, least of all selling anything to anyone.

Quote :

It has everything to do with Scawen, because he is the one who'd implement it and it depends on him on how invasive these ads could get. As of now, these custom ads are absolutely non invasive because they don't exist, and at most they'd be as invasive as you'd allow them to be via the options. An implementation not allowing to turn them off would be completely against everything the devs stand for and would alienate quite a large chunk of the community. With your fears of those advertising horror scenarios you were basically implying that Scawen allowed such an implementation in the first place, which is why I brought him up.

Again you're referring to options. You work in IT, not trying to sound sarcastic, but are you oblivious to day-to-day marketing online? How many companies are going to want to pay Sam to advertise on his servers knowing that 80% (just a figure) of people connecting will have dynamic ads disabled? Would you pay a hefty sum for advertising knowing that? I certainly wouldn't.

Sam's not talking about options either, or rather, the only option is not to connect to the servers he wants to peddle this trash on.

It still has nothing to do with Scawen.. I don't care _how_ the ads may be served, I don't want to see them, period.. be it intrusive or otherwise... hence I say it has nothing to do with him.. you're assuming I care how they're served not if



Regards,

Ian

Quote from AndroidXP :

One thing I'm asking myself is, what is so outrageous about billboards that change once in a while? Which could even be turned off.

I just don't like ads, period.. I spend far too many hours a day having to deal with unwanted marketing gumph. I change channels on TV when ads appear.. I go out of my way to avoid as much as possible.. I certainly don't want forced advertising in a game which I'd be playing to try and relax after a day's work of dealing with crap.

I can change every ad in the game to a plain white texture if I wanted to.. force these server side and I no longer have that option and I'm forced to see whatever ads the server thinks I want to see. I _never_ by anything from an advert I've seen and certainly don't plan to start now.

Quote :

Have you lost all trust in Scawen? I mean, seeing any implementation of ad support is already very unlikely, yet alone one you cannot turn off.

Being able to turn off ads defeats the purpose and companies just won't buy it, thus making the whole thing moot, which works for me.. not sure it'd work for the sponsors.

Quote :

All these horror visions of ads anywhere else than billboards I read about are just plain paranoia and IMO quite ridiculous. I bet you're remembering back to the countless times Scavier have sold themselves out to some big (evil) corporation, no? You know, because money is their main concern regarding LFS.

Way to blow things out of proportion...

Nothing to do with Scawen et al at all. What the hell gave you that idea? Where did I once mention Scawen or any part of the dev team or LFS in relation to them? It's Sam who's trying to line his pockets, not Scawen.



Regards,

Ian

Sam, you say you go out of your way to avoid general advertisements on web sites, in e-mail etc.. why do you think _you_ peddling that trash is any different from any other marketer or spammer on the planet? They're only interested in one thing, which you seem to be too, as everyone who disagrees with you is "silly" or just "scaremongering" or "afraid".

What's so different between you wanting to advertise and some other company that you may well block in your web browser? Why do you think your ads must be seen by others but it's ok for you to avoid other peoples?

You sound like a typical marketer.. a droid, no idea about what people really want.. the _only_ important thing is your next lead so you can get paid.

To me, it sounds like you want to be something you can't afford to be and want someone to pick up the tab for your servers.. but no doubt you'll deny it



Regards,

Ian

Quote from SamH :

Bump! (this is the oldest thread I've ever bumped deliberately! )

But a new slant, actually. This time, specifically for server operators and league organizers. Since I started this thread back in 2005, I've learned an awful lot more about LFS and so I know that the master server is definitely not at risk!

While we've been chasing sponsors recently, it's become apparent that our inability to distribute relevent billboards around the circuit to the racers/spectators is definitely a missed opportunity and, in its own way, it's a bit of a hindrance to the progress we want to introduce.

We're not at all desperate for cash at CTRA in order to keep going. The server is sufficiently funded etc., and I have to say that the support and commitment from UKCT is fab.. but we could do more than we are doing if we had the extra bit of appeal to offer potential sponsors. The trackside billboards are *the* obvious way to be able to secure the bandwidth we'd love to use (~1TB/mo, pre-X) and, if we did a good enough job of selling our system, to offer something tangible to achievers on our servers.

Ideally, server operators could host their own packaged versions of select billboards around the track. As you join the server, you automatically download the latest (unix timecoded?) JPG or DDS files as you do skins.

Anyway.. I wanted to throw it out there. It's just a wall that could be a door or a window for opportunities, for server hosts and leagues

This was one of the main reasons I didn't even consider looking at RACE. If this becomes a part of LFS, then I'll drop it like a hot spud.. I don't mind static advertising with the billboards etc as they currently are, I can change them if I so desire.. forcing me to see 3rd party ads regardless will result in me 1:> null-routing the ad server(s) IP address(es), 2:> finding a new game, 3:> forgetting all about S3



Regards,

Ian

Quote from jscorrea :

Hello Victor,

Any change in MPR structure?

The times in my result chart is very strange now..

Regards
JS

Times are now in milliseconds.. but I've been having an issue with this.. the function I coded which converts WR timestamps just fine doesn't seem to want to play ball with MPR timestamps, but should be the same AFAIA.. but anyway, you'll need to convert them from milliseconds now



Regards,

Ian

Quote from danowat :

cheers Ian, I'll take a look, hopefully it will be fool(me)proof

Funny thing, the older I get, the more technophobic I get, wierd huh?

So this Winavi thingy, will do DVD/VOB to AVI yes?, reading the blurb I am unsure.........

There's a few options you can set, but on the whole, it's pretty much a "1-click process"

VOB to AVI should be no problem... you click on the 'AVI' button (the main buttons on the first screen are destination format), select the vob files. This'll display the main window with the files listed etc. Clicking the 'advanced' button is where you set any options you want.. such as AVI encoder, filesize (incase you want to split them into 700Mb chunks for example) and some other bits, most you'll probably leave as defaults. You'll have a choice to merge or convert as separate files, merge (the one you want) is selected by default. Select your output dir (this is remembered between sessions) and hit 'OK'. Next step, most important.. go and make coffee and wait for the conversion to finish



Regards,

Ian

It's not free Dan, but WinAVI is what I use for many of my basic video conversions. It'll join, split and convert various formats and really couldn't be easier to use



Regards,

Ian

Stick my name down for this too.. seems a bit arse about face to me too as it is now.. my normal route would be main game screen -> pick car -> pick track given the choice so landing us on the "go" screen would be more user-friendly / intuitive I think



Regards,

Ian

Quote from JTbo :

RWD - Check
Timeless design made with ruler -Check
Needless big yet hopelessly underpowered engine -Check
Other people telling you to get new car soon -Check

Welcome to club, that is proper way to transport person to place A to place B

lol.. the engine's not too bad actually.. except it's coupled to an auto box. The kickdown works _really_ well though but obviously then the fuel gauge goes down at the same rate as the revs rise

Quote :

1983 240 with 6-cylinder diesel engine that provides whopping 140nm torque to pull whole 1380kg around is mine, which I will use to cause bad looks by neighbours

heh.. neighbours might think it looks bad, but it'll cruise nicely all day long. Practicality wins for me every time now and most modern cars look hopeless in design



Regards,

Ian

Quote from kamkorPL :

p.s.: Ian, I know you were tapped at T1, but drifting is such a turd and easy stuff that you should easily catch that little slide Most footage was also shoot after the pit stop. For future reference, if you don't feel confident about your skill - don't join a public race with so many cars. It's just not safe. Anyway, I'm glad that most of you had fun watching a video. Was a good laugh to me as well.

The slide was more of a push.. inertia crippled me bearing in mind I had a pretty small steering lock and the setup was meant to keep the backend in shape, not slide

As for my driving itself, there's no other word than 'bad'.. it was really bad, but was a bad day.. I'm not normally quite as sloppy.. smaller grid in the replay attached granted, but a bit more pressure but even though I'm not the fastest or best driver by a long shot, can normally at least keep the car somewhat under control



Regards,

Ian

waider.. I don't know what point you're trying to make and didn't see the thread before it was moderated.. but I don't see any insults in the video at all. It was the first race I'd done properly with LFS in aaaages and was all over the place. I got spun on the first corner and it crippled the suspension which is the cause of the first few clips of the vid.. but I pitted for repair and still drove really badly.. and someone decided they'd make a video of it.

Let it go dude. I don't know what got edited while the thread was apparently being appraised, but AFAIC, what's left here is just amusing as I'm pretty sure it was intended



Regards,

Ian

Quote from jayhawk :

Bless your soul Ian, for being a good sport.

Early rule my Mum taught me in life... "you don't dish out what you can't take" I don't get offended easily either.

AFAIC, there was nothing offensive in the movie though, it was (unfortunately) me driving (very very badly, heh) so what can I say.. I guess I feel honoured someone bothered to spend that much time thinking of me



Kamkor: You could say I like pink.. but not the place to elaborate



Regards,

Ian

lol that was actually cute I definitely need some track time after taking 2 years off although the shunt on the first corner crippled the suspension. An amusing vid anyway

Want my phone number too kamkor?



Regards,

Ian

Managed to join a server, have a race, but it wouldn't let me leave.. the following screen is all I was left with until I killed the LFS process.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from mrbogeyman :

haha! Ian I NEVER pictured you as a mercedes man! Although I do love estate cars myself! Brilliantly practical compared to all these modern 'people carriers/SUVs'.

heh, I'm not normally, usually a Ford man and with something a bit more sporty, but my cousin's ex left Vauxhall just before xmas and got him a new Corsa for half price.. he was selling the Merc to someone at work who managed to get £250 of the £450 asked over 3 months! My cousin got pissed off waiting, thanked him for his deposit and gave me the car

Being an estate though as you say is worth its weight in gold.. especially with a 10 year old but it pulls from 90-120 like my old Orion did from 40-60 while in 3rd gear so can't complain about that.. it's just.. umm.... thirsty but on the plus side, it's a TE so aircon, full leather, self-levelling rear suspension and heated front seats are all nice.. and it's so damn comfortable.. makes my office chair feel like a prison bed

Quote :

My dad just got a Focus estate and I can't wait to throw my bikes in the back of it! Nowt like a good old tank

My ol man wants a focus, not sure what model.. but yup, can't beat big ol beasts for practicality etc



Regards,

Ian

While sitting on the track in LFS, try turning the wheel fully in both directions (ignore what the LFS hands are doing for a moment) and see then if LFS behaves a bit better... I have this occasionally with my DFP. I'm not a hardware bod though so no idea why.. just that turning the wheel fully in both directions fixes the calibration for me.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Bean0 :

Between you, you have got it.

The Smart-Es - Sesame's Treat
(Smarties - Sesame Street)

Can't believe there's no-one here that hasn't heard of that one.
I give up on the drawing, I much enjoy the guessing more.

hah.. Sesame's Treat rocks! Was what I grew up DJing with.. old skool, happy hardcore, piano house and jungle.. love the classics



Regards,

Ian

My ol' tank... needs a tidy up.. but a 3.0L straight 6 (pulls like a train) and comfort aplenty.. even better for being a freebie



Regards,

Ian

Awwww... ain't that cute Did you type that all by yourself? :clapclap:

I'm sorry, did you have a point to make?



Regards,

Ian


PS: WTF is it with "drifters" and constantly creating new threads trying to defend their favourite waste of time? I've added to many of the "drift" related threads, but don't start them just to criticise, but the "drifters" seem hell bent on starting new threads and profusely defending their reasons for doing it.. weird

Nice trolling from the OP anyway :rolleyes: