Quote from G!NhO :

Double post FTW

Video of it running at top spe ... as a little bumpy water.

Err well I'm no boating expert, but looking at the vid I would say there is no way that dingy will take a doubling of power. It seems to be moving along pretty nicely and you're already getting fair bit of lift of the bow.

But like I said, I'm no expert. My boating experience is limited to sailing 16ft wayfarers.

Quote from samjh :

Not that ridiculous really. It depends on the level and conditions, of course. Most rallying occurs at club-level, and that only requires somewhat above-average fitness (same for tin-top club racing). We're not talking about the Dakar or the WRC here, as that would be at the extreme high-end.

I would suspect the fittest people involved in motorsport would be motorcross etc riders, though I have no objective evidence of it.

Quote from Gabkicks :

who has RJJ raped or murdered? are you serious? what kind of an ignorant over generalization is that?

Learn to fully understand a sentence before bothering to reply to it.

If you're not aware of the fact that the boxing world has happily accepted in it's midst people convicted of murderer, rape, assult etc then it's not me that's ignorant. I'm not going to enter in to any further discussion over it either.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

That's absolutely not true, I've had to switch my PSU every 2 years, granted they weren't top of the line PSUs, just generic ones, but still they couldn't take more than 2 years before they would start making noises, then finally give up. This is on a low-end PC not a high-end PC, the PSUs had more than enough power to power the system, they just weren't built for longevity.

Well, I guess you get what you pay for I've worked in companies for nearly 20 years and I have never known PSUs to "break" as a matter of course every two years. Plenty of places I've worked we've had the vast majority of machines remain completely hardware reliable for the entire period they were deployed, (well over 2 years in nearly every case), in fact many of them were "sold on" in a working condition.

Even on a personal level I don't know anyone who owns a pc that has had their PSU fail on them. In fact as far as I can make out looking around various forums etc the only people I ever hear of with PSU failures are either the odd unlucky person that got a faulty unit in the first place, or people that self build, overclock or otherwise mess around with their machines.

Quote from AMB :

Anyone follow/or enjoy boxing, well who's your favourite fighters etc

Mines RJJ - Roy Jones Junior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPT6E_ouBnM

Fast as lightning.

I don't watch boxing. They allow people convicted of very serious crimes to be involved at all levels of the game. I refuse to be a party in any way to lining the pockets of murderers and rapists.

Quote from DeKo :

there only is 1 proper type of football, all that american and aussie rubbish is handegg.

Oh I don't know, that Aussie rules football is pretty entertaining if you ask me. Not as good as Rugby, but a whole lot better than football.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

So how long did that PSU last you? Just a couple of months? That doesn't sound right, PSUs usually last a good year or two when used heavily.

Theirs no reason what so ever that a PSU shouldn't work faultlessly for well over 5 years, irrespective of how "heavily" it's used. Assuming it's been installed according to manufacturers instructions and isn't underrated for what you expect of it.

Quote from CSU1 :

...... - I don't understand why a certified Microsoft Systems engineer is asking us how to fault-find hardware...

MSCE certification only covers use of Microsoft OS software, plus a few of their biggest selling software products, (depending on which elective you choose). It doesn't teach you anything about how a computer actually works. Plus IME you don't have to be all that smart, (or knowledgeable), to gain the certification either, (not saying the OP isn't smart just stating a fact).

I actually find it really sad that employers put so much store in what are effectively pretty piss poor certifications such as MCP, MCSE, CCNA etc. All of which teach you no more than anyone with half a brain could pick up in 6 months or less. Passing an old fasioned O Level is a lot harder, (oh they don't do them any more do they.. wonder why? )

Quote from zeugnimod :

Unfortunately, some arer "fitter" than others.

Sad but true.

Quote from chanoman315 :

Anyone knows who makes more effort or consumes more energy in their own sports? I know that racing but I need to prove it (to a friend).

Thanks

Well firstly you need to start by defining which you want to measure.. Effort doesn't directly translate to calories burned. Powerlifters use more "effort" than pretty much any other sports person, but they don't burn nearly as many calories as other some other sports people do.

So first decide what you want to compare.

Footballers almost certainly need better cardio-respiritory fitness than any motorsport competitor because they are effectively doing a version of HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). But they're weak, although motorsport competitors tend to be even weaker.

But then motorsport competitors tend to be in a harsher environment and require to have higher levels of mental concentration (and yes thinking hard does use up calories) so it's possible for them to require a different type of physical fitness. F1 drivers certainly spend a lot of time in the gym and doing cardio work.

However neither get anywhere near the level of fitness required by competitive Badmington players let alone Tour de France cyclists who are by far the fittest sports people on the planet.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I think we'll still see pitstops, as we did before refuelling was reintroducted 15 years ago, but they won't dictate the race quite as much as they do now, and hence the racing will be better, and everyone will be happier. One-stops will be common I'd have thought, but the occasional team will continue with no-stops (unless the FIA keep the stupid rule about using both compounds).

A tyre war would also be great, although I would suspect that it wouldn't be as good as you suggest if the current qualifying format is kept, as performance over one lap (and hence being best at the beginning of a stint) would be a large design parameter.

Tyre warmers won't make any difference. You'll barely notice they've gone. After a pitstop the cars will be a smidgen slower for a few corners, but not dangerously or excessively.

I do hope that the tyres are changed, with a wider rear brought in as opposed to the supposed narrower front... F1 needs more reliance on mechanical grip and less on aero performance, something the wider rear would bring in both regards.

Agree with all of that, (except maybe the bit about wider tyres).

I'd really like to see pit stop strategy taken out of racing as much as possible. I also think the enforced compound changes are pointless to say nothing of being un "eco friendly" as we're supposed to worry about such things these days. I'd love to see the day when F1 drivers are having to look after their tyres and still risk having to do the last few laps on worn out ones. And no, I don't want to see that just because Hamilton is crap at looking after his tyres, (so is Massa an he's one of my favorite drivers - purely because he's Brasilian like my wife!). I just think F1 needs to be more about overall driver skill and as far away from "hot lapper" mentality as possible. Though I've always though F1 races are too long, purely because there simply isn't enough action to hold my attention for upwards of 1 and a half hours.

Quote from danowat :

@Gezmoor..

1) Whats the most powerfull bike you have ridden?

2) Have you ever ridden a bike on the track?

How did I guess that you'd be asking me that..

1) A tuned Fireblade, mid 90's model. Admittedly not as powerful as todays 1ltr bikes, but I wouldn't have any worries about getting on a new Fireblade even a decade after not riding. I'm fully aware that it's all in the wrist.
That said, I've enough knowelege/experience of bikes of differing powers to know that there's a world of difference between even an R1 and a MotoGP bike. I'm not saying I couldn't get on a MotoGP bike and ride it around a track, probably could even ride it fast enough to scare myself silly. But I'm also honest enough to know that I wouldn't be doing anything more than cruising on it.

2) Yes, though I've never raced. Don't remember exacty how many track days I've done but I've done 2-3 days each on Donnington & Brands Hatch GP circuits, Castle Coombe, Goodwood and Malory Park. Plus a Race School day at Donnington. I got quick enough to move in to the "quick/advanced" group just before I had my bike stolen.

I've had first hand experience of being out on a track, (mallory) at the same time as a real motorcycle racer, (John Reynolds), on his Superbike preparing for the weekends race meet. So I know just how much faster guys like him are than even very quick road riders and junior club racers. One thing that that experience really drove home to me is just how fearless and skillful those guys are and how very few people on this planet could ever be as good as guys like Reynolds. And the likes of Rossi are in another league again.

So when the likes of Rossi et al say that todays MotoGP bikes are getting "too powerful" (not too fast - there's a difference) to ride then I am in no position to argue, given what I've experienced and seen with my own eyes.

Quote from Intrepid :

..... Just stating TC is rubbish from a sporting perspective!

Depends on the circumstances. Many MotoGP riders have stated in the past that the bikes are just getting too powerfull. They're actually getting slower because of it. Unless there is another major shake up of the engine regs then there isn't any option but to incorporate a form of "artificial" engine power management. Not unless you'd rather be watching riders going even slower, or falling off, rather than racing each other.

Personally, I don't the fact that WSB is more entertaining to watch than MotoGP at the moment has got anything to do with the use of TC in MotoGP.

I said nearly people.. and I somewhat get the impression that you guys don't fully appreciate the delicacy of throttle control required already on such lightweight and powerful machines.. "just learn more throttle control" like it's that easy.

Of course people still highside etc but with the bike putting down it's full power in the lower gears out of slower corners you think there wouldn't be even more??

Sorry I have to laugh at some of the responses, if you think motorcycle racers are lacking in "cohonas" and that they implimented TC in MotoGP because they're a bunch of pansies (who lack throttle control) then you seriously know nothing about the sport. I suggest you all stick to car racing with it's 200m run offs, crumple zones and guys crying about not having the right visors for a race.

Last edited by gezmoor, Fri 1 May 2009, 12:24.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Motegi was bit rubbish though, you have to admit (by MotoGP standards). I blame the rider aids (traction control is for girls no matter how many wheels or how much power you have)

Traction control is a neccesity on MotoGP bikes. Without it they would be nearly impossible to ride. Of course the number of wheels matter. In a car the worst thats going to happen is that you'll spin. On a bike, if you spin up the wheels, not only do you risk lowsiding but you also risk being highsided. Being highsided at any speed is seriouly dangerous. Anyway, unless things have changed traction contol is only in effect in the lower gears.

To put it in to perspective..

Power of a MotoGP bike is approx 230bhp contact patch is little more than a credit card (46 cm sq). Lets be generous and say 60 cm sq. That's 3.8bhp per cm sq.

An F1 car develops about 800bhp and has a total conact patch of what? 320 cm sq (assuming 325mm width and 50mm longditudinal contact length). That's 2.5bhp per cm sq.

Then compare the actual grip.. the F1 car has a minium mass of 605kg. Lets assume half of it (in reality it will be more) is over the rear wheels. That's 300kg of mass on a 320 cm sq area (coeficient of friction ?? who knows lets just say 1 for the sake of the comparison) so friction force is proportional to 300x1 or 300. For a MotoGP bike the same calculation (with the same assumptions) works out to 110.

So to sum up.. bike has 1.5 times the force per area of contact patch and 0.36 times the grip levels. Making a force/grip ratio 4 times that of an F1 car.

All of the above assumes identical powertrain efficiency and gearing ratios of course. Anyone have any data on "at the wheel" torque figures for either F1 cars or MotoGP bikes??

Quote from need :

I've been hoping they would get rid of refuelling for a while now. Since it's common for the teams to try and win the race in the pitstops.
Now they just need to get rid of the tyre changing during the race (except for punctures) and we'll be back to the drivers/teams having to overtake in order to win/score more points, etc...

+1 that.

Oh and on the point of "stupid rule changes ruining F1".. what a load of rubbish. If the FIA hadn't kept moving the goal posts every so often development in F1 would have stagnated decades ago. Technology advances much faster when the engineers etc are forced to be creative and use new ideas/techniques etc. In fact it's proven historically that technology advances are driven by change, not slowed by it.

Quote from Intrepid :

????? This is F1 not athletics. I don't think there has EVER been a fair F1 race that purely rewards the best driver on the day. F1 is not really a sport as such but a competition between technicians and businessmen!

Yes of course.. but removal of pit stops would at least be a step towards that impossible ideal. IMO.

Edited to add- There is no such thing as winning 100% on merit even in Athletics.

Quote from J@tko :

But that's only when you have a matter-anti matter collision - and there's no way that we can manufacture enough anti-matter to last a race

I'll leave this discussion now

Would need about 7.5x10 -6 grammes of anti-matter, (in annihilation with another 7.5x10 -6 grammes of normal matter), to power an F1 car race distance.

Fermilab only manged to produce 4x10 -9 grammes of anti-matter in 35 years.

At that rate it would take 65 tousand years to fuel just one car.

Quote from deggis :

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/media ... 9/Pages/wmsc_290409a.aspx

Changes applicable to all teams

It was confirmed that from 2010, refuelling during a race will be forbidden in order to save the costs of transporting refuelling equipment and increase the incentive for engine builders to improve fuel economy (to save weight).

Well, that's a step in the right direction at least. I just wish they would get rid of pit stops all together. I hate the way pit stop strategy influences races. I want to see the best driver win on 100% merit not with any help from the team on tyre change and fuelling strategies.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But it is just that - a 'good idea', i.e +-10 or 15%.

The absolute accuracy isn't nearly as important as the consistancy. I've had plenty of dyno readings done on my motorcycles and always went to the same place and had the runs done by the same operator(s). The thing that surprised me is just how conistant the figures were for each of the bikes, eg within 1-2 hp on a 90hp reading. That's pretty consistant, (5%). There are good and bad operators and I strongly suspect the majority of the variation that people see with dyno runs is either down to:

a) swapping makes/models of dynos

and/or

b) operators that don't know what they're doing.

For a start you can't just take one run, dynos don't work like that, (I forget why now - but I've seen the results).

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

....... and that it was all a bigger boy who did it and ran away.

That's one of the funniest things I've read on here for a long time. So true......

Quote from Shotglass :

+9001

whats the point of having a thread 2 weeks before the f1 teams even arrive in barcelona let alone put their cars on twack?

What exactly is the problem?? Isn't this the "general racing talk" sub forum?? Is there something wrong with speculation, general discussion etc about an upcoming GP. People, (including the commentators), start talking about the next race pretty much as soon as the last one is over, why should a forum not reflect that fact??

Personally, as long as the next thread doesn't turn up before the end of the race weekend of the previous race I really don't see the issue.

Maybe next year it would be better just to have single thread for the entire season like I've seen on other, (not even motorsport related), forums. Maybe that will stop all this bickering.

Quote from amp88 :

Stepneygate followed closely by Liegate doesn't show everyone (including the FIA) exactly how McLaren operate?

They got off lightly with a suspended sentence...

I have to say I agree with that sentiment. I think they got lucky personally. The FIA are probably more worried about the overall effect that punative action on a team would have with the spectators perception of the sport.

Quote from Forbin :

Date: 26 April, 2009
Track: NJMP Thunderbolt (clockwise)
Laps: 6
Class: Supersport (650cc and under)
Air temperature: 93F (34C)
Starting Position: 12th (4th row, far left, outside for T1)
Finishing Position: 16th of 21

Results

20 riders out of 21 were on 600cc 4-cylinder bikes. I was the only one on an SV650 (650cc v-twin), meaning the rest of the field had 40-50% more power (72HP vs. 100-110HP).

I swapped positions a few times with one of the club's coaches on a 2007 Kawasaki ZX-6R, then finally made it stick going into the long left at the end of the final lap. He said he got a better drive coming out of it, but I closed the door as we entered the esses preceding the front straight. I kept waiting for him to out-power and blow by me before we crossed the line but it never happened. Thanks to my move in the esses, he had to back off and lost his drive onto the straight.

Laps
1:47.26
1:40.75
1:39.60
1:39.44
1:38.88
1:39.44

AVG: 1:40.895

For reference, I heard the race winner's best lap (on a faster bike) was a 1:29.

Budget racing at it's finest.

Me on the bike during a trackday on a different track a few weeks prior to this race.

Hopefully I'll have some pics or even videos from the race soon.

UPDATE (29/4/09):
Here's a video of the race taken by the guy I eventually passed on the final lap for 16th. Unfortunately the last 45 seconds before we crossed the line got cut off due to Photobucket size limitations, so you don't actually see that pass. He may post the rest later this week.

You can see me at these times in the video:

9:57-9:22
4:44-4:41
0:14-0:11

http://s3.photobucket.com/albu ... ce4_26_09_NJMP_T-Bolt.flv

Nice vid.

Can see why he ended up 16th.. seems to ease off quite early in to a lot of the corners. Some sweet lean angles though. A bit keen with that overtake at 4:44 weren't you??

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