What's the difference between Hamilton's arrogance and yours Tristan?
Bloody hell I thought they were screenshots from something at first 
Yep, a VISA debit card will be accepted anywhere with the VISA logo.
:ices_rofl
How very scientific. I overtook a Ferrari 360 once; therefore my MX-5 is faster than a Ferrari 360. Brilliant!
Anyway.
Seriously, if you're looking for realism then the important thing to remember about sims like GTR, LFS and rFactor is that they have all provoked massive division in the sim-racing community. They are all brilliant and have some stand-out features, but they don't all feel right for everyone, and that suggest a significant flaw somewhere.
When Richard Burns Rally was released, the physics were never questioned; you drive it, it feels right, the end. nkPro is the same, the moment you drive it, it feels right. I'm not speaking personally, just of the impression I get from the sim-racing community as a whole.
Put it this way, I've not seen the physics of nkPro or RBR (or iRacing so far) disputed, but how many threads are on the LFS, GTR and rFactor forums started by people questioning some aspect of the physics?
The bottom line is, no matter how loud a community's claims, these three have not succeeded in convincing the majority. They all divide opinion. If the next releases of any of them immediately feel right for most people, they'll have reached that holy grail of realism but until then, there's still work to do.
Tristan's the bloke who thinks an MX-5 can outperform a Lotus Elise, Porsche 911 and Caterham 7 isn't he? 
That is purely your client base and the type of products you offer, it's got bugger all to do with the web as a whole. Our company does loads of Flash stuff - probably around 40% of our output - and we're not short of clients either.
I'm glad you finally agree with what I've been saying all along.
Yes, like on iRacing.
Again, as many have pointed out, you're blaming a tool for an engineers' mistakes. Your view is about 5 years out of date.
Based on that comment I'll assume you don't know anything about Actionscript 3 so it's not really worth explaining it. All I will say is that a web developer that ignores Flash these days is extremely unwise.
The bottom line is that it is by far the best tool for a site such as iRacing, so there's no reason they shouldn't have used it.
It is true that there's lots of bad or unecessarily overblown Flash sites out there but a lot of that is because of clients demands rather than developers' preferences.
Anyway, to bring this back to relevance, Flash can do a hell of a lot more than just fancy graphics and animation and since the whole iRacing interface is web based, Flash is the only option.
And if your site requires Flash in the first place, you might as well use it to make the rest of the site look a bit nicer. Simple as that
Ah that explains a lot - Flash was dreadful back then. The Flash 9 player and Actionscript 3 (which presumably is what will power iRacing) is awesome.
Remember the web is new technology, we're only just beginning to understand how to use it properly.
Anyway, to bring this back to relevance, Flash can do a hell of a lot more than just fancy graphics and animation and since the whole iRacing interface is web based, Flash is the only option.
And if your site requires Flash in the first place, you might as well use it to make the rest of the site look a bit nicer. Simple as that
Ah that explains a lot - Flash was dreadful back then. The Flash 9 player and Actionscript 3 (which presumably is what will power iRacing) is awesome.
Remember the web is new technology, we're only just beginning to understand how to use it properly.
Last edited by durbster, .
This is getting rather off the point but have you got any examples?
As a way of watching races without access to a TV or the live feed, that's a nifty idea. It'd be neat to be able to watch a race from wherever the hell you wanted to - total control.
But selling it as a sim is utterly pointless. It's not a simulation, it's a rigid recreation.
But selling it as a sim is utterly pointless. It's not a simulation, it's a rigid recreation.
Erm, have you even read that website? How is that relevant?
The website is saying that when Flash is badly or unecessarily implemented, it can be a problem. You can say the same about anything. Seatbelts in cars aren't too great if they're not screwed in properly. Should we stop using them?
I think a website for an online-only sim can get away with assuming a fairly decent web connection. The intro video is only a couple of seconds and it only plays once. When you revisit the site it automatically skips it. It should still have a skip button, I agree with that.
What's wrong with using Flash?
Thanks for that, I feel exactly the same way. I had two years away travelling and came back to find nothing had changed in sim-racing. I downloaded the latest versions of rFactor, LFS and nkPro and was really disappointed. nkPro is absolutely brilliant for driving - it immediately feels right and imo is the current market leader for realism by some way. However, I'm not paying for an incomplete product with useless support and a dubious future.
rFactor's probably the best all rounder at the moment but is still nothing far beyond what we had a couple of years ago.
And LFS felt pretty much the same as it has since about 2004. Great fun online but sadly quite dull and odd to drive otherwise. And the sounds! The new F1 car made me laugh out loud when I revved it!
Honestly, Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 2 sounds better!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAigrVc_Njk
That's Grand Prix 2 from 1994. :eek:
So yes, we desparately need something new.
Yeah it's an argument for bragging rights more than anything. A programmer's goal is to produce an experience of some sort but how they do it is completely irrelevant. There are always shortcuts and cheats, because without them no software would ever run. I've no doubt that Scawen is a genius with code, but I'd bet money on there being a few cheats in there.
For a very simple example, I was recently working on a 2D game which required an object to fire and fall, as if thrown from a catapult. I could have coded a physics system to control this, but when a simple animation technique produces exactly the same result with almost no CPU overhead, I'll do it that way. The user doesn't know or care how it was done, so there's nothing to gain from doing it the complicated way.
Being a uniquely American problem, I think it's fair to assume that it's something deep in the American system that's at fault. A lot of countries have civilians that are armed (don't the Swiss have more guns per person?), so it's not simply a matter of having guns, it's how they're treated.
Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.
So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot
), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.
And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?
You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.
How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.
You can't handle it. You get angry.
Anyway, the gun discussions have been done to death so I won't go there. Personally I think part of the problem is the paranoid censorship that America seems to cherish. US tv and films are the best example of this, where anything considered a threat is blurred all swearing or even a hint of a mention of horrible things like drugs is muted.
So kids grow up watching this fantasy world, where nobody swears, everybody who does bad things dies (usually gets shot
), and the ending is always happy. Drugs are bad, guns are bad, swearing is bad, being angry is bad, being nice will bring you all you need.And then you grow up and discover the real world. You meet people who do drugs and find that they're not suffering horribly, in fact it's like some of them are having a great time. How can it be!?
You see somebody with a gun and see the respect and awe they bring. You see people swearing without any consequence and you see complete arseholes with beautiful girls on their arm. You're nice and polite to people, and yet you don't win the lottery, you haven't got the girl, loads of friends, a great car and nobody's paying you the attention you deserve.
How can it be? You've been lied to all this time. You've made it to your teenage years and only just now discovered that sometimes life kicks you in the balls. Nobody mentioned this, it all looked so easy.
You can't handle it. You get angry.
Unless you have played RBR, you shouldn't be allowed to vote on this
Yep, as I said on the actual link I made to Wikipedia, do the research yourself. It's a good starting point because it links to the actual documentation.
Then how come so many scientists have been talking about climate change for the past 10 years. The reports have been available for years, and yet it has been deeply unpopular until recently. The biggest study was done before Al Gore's slideshow made the whole topic fashionable.
The comment-to-evidence ratio on this thread is staggering! Conveniently all evidence referred to is available offline only it seems. How handy.
If anyone is genuinely interested in climate change then do a little digging for yourself and you'll find that the science is pretty solid on this. There is around 90% certainty it's a man made phenomenon which in scientific terms is extremely high. There are always scientists who disagree of course, it's the nature of the business.
Just do the research yourself, it's all out there. For crying out loud don't rely on the sort of factless tosh you get on Internet forums!
This bollocks about the Government only letting you know what they want you to know is just utter paranoia, the Governments only became interested when the general public did. The science has been around far longer than the fad.
There is a simple answer to this question.
The biggest gain you'll get from LFS or any race sim is racecraft: spotting danger, making snap decisions on how to get through carnage, recognising when something is going to go very wrong before it's too late and learning how to pass difficult people.
I've been away for a couple of years so hopefully the following no longer applies, but previously I found that LFS was never accurate enough to be relevant in real life.
It could certainly teach you the basics of car control; response to spins, coping with weight transfer etc., but the finer elements of driving can only be gained by experience in that car on that track.
The problem with karting in particular is that it's such an incredibly responsive machine, driven on instinc, and I think it's just too hard to recreate in a sim. Driving an MX-5 (normally a responsive car) after going karting is always a huge disappointment as it feels wallowy, sluggish and unresponsive. It's the only bad thing about going karting
The biggest gain you'll get from LFS or any race sim is racecraft: spotting danger, making snap decisions on how to get through carnage, recognising when something is going to go very wrong before it's too late and learning how to pass difficult people.
I've been away for a couple of years so hopefully the following no longer applies, but previously I found that LFS was never accurate enough to be relevant in real life.
It could certainly teach you the basics of car control; response to spins, coping with weight transfer etc., but the finer elements of driving can only be gained by experience in that car on that track.
The problem with karting in particular is that it's such an incredibly responsive machine, driven on instinc, and I think it's just too hard to recreate in a sim. Driving an MX-5 (normally a responsive car) after going karting is always a huge disappointment as it feels wallowy, sluggish and unresponsive. It's the only bad thing about going karting
I must say you're putting forward an extremely bizarre argument ajp. You seem to be suggesting that graphics should not resemble real life at all, and should only really consist of the fundamental elements e.g. road and cars.
The job of graphics in a computer game is to increase involvement and illusion. The closer they are to reality, the more immersive the environment. Users aren't going to be distracted by a tree, a spectator or a hotdog stand on a computer game any more than they are in real life.
The job of graphics in a computer game is to increase involvement and illusion. The closer they are to reality, the more immersive the environment. Users aren't going to be distracted by a tree, a spectator or a hotdog stand on a computer game any more than they are in real life.
Don't believe the hype.
It depends on the one you get, so it seems. The tolerances for setup from Mazda are so vague with the mk3 that it seems to be a matter of luck whether you get a good one or not. There's a story from the Hawaii launch where one journo was complaining about the lack of feel when a Mazda rep told him to take a different car. He came back again saying it was brilliant.
No it didn't but that was the original aim and that's where Pro comes in. It is called netKar after all.
From Kunos:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showpo ... =2757928&postcount=25
Those Nurby pics are renders, not in-game screenshots. I'm sure it will look better in the game
Also, I think netKar always had the strap line of "Online Racing Simulator", they just added a Pro to it because this is the pro version.
Also, I think netKar always had the strap line of "Online Racing Simulator", they just added a Pro to it because this is the pro version.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG