I liked the race, even though it was quite dull, it gave me enough time to take a shower and such while not losing track of what was going on.
As a matter of personal taste, I would have liked Kubica to get into 1st position, he's a fast driver and pretty much capable of doing so, but the Ferraris comeback was also quite nice and demonstrates that the championship is still open to anyone and every (competitive) team can still fight for the points.
Quite a bad race for some of the drivers, guess it wasn't their day, but that doesn't mean they are allowed to behave in an immature way.
First news for me.
Care to elaborate/point when he has shown this behaviour on the track?
I mean, people talks that he's arrogant while in fact they don't read his actual statements but media 'we're going to have big sales-because we're selling a big story' kind of manipulation, but as of now I have not seen much about it nor actually cared to think it's something unique from him.
Completely agreed. It seems like people likes to act based on 'I've heard that' or 'they say he said that' rather than on the actual raw data or the direct source. I might bet they did even deny any damage done to Alonso's car (wow, the Renault must be a tank! :tilt
and use the fact that he wasn't fast to 'prove' their point that he's a 'bad driver', while it's well known that the Renault in it's current state is slower and less powerful than most cars this F1 season.
As a matter of personal taste, I would have liked Kubica to get into 1st position, he's a fast driver and pretty much capable of doing so, but the Ferraris comeback was also quite nice and demonstrates that the championship is still open to anyone and every (competitive) team can still fight for the points.
Quite a bad race for some of the drivers, guess it wasn't their day, but that doesn't mean they are allowed to behave in an immature way.
First news for me.
Care to elaborate/point when he has shown this behaviour on the track?
I mean, people talks that he's arrogant while in fact they don't read his actual statements but media 'we're going to have big sales-because we're selling a big story' kind of manipulation, but as of now I have not seen much about it nor actually cared to think it's something unique from him.
Completely agreed. It seems like people likes to act based on 'I've heard that' or 'they say he said that' rather than on the actual raw data or the direct source. I might bet they did even deny any damage done to Alonso's car (wow, the Renault must be a tank! :tilt
and use the fact that he wasn't fast to 'prove' their point that he's a 'bad driver', while it's well known that the Renault in it's current state is slower and less powerful than most cars this F1 season.Spot on!
Still, he's far from being the typical 'new-generation' F1 driver in many fields - good fella, better driver, but the media ain't focused on him much yet, but I hope that's gonna change :]
As far as I remember, there was a statement somewhere that did read like ALO and HAM were given same treatment on the team until Hungary, by letting them have their last qualifying laps alternatively (one GP HAM had last qualifying last for McLaren, next GP was ALO), but when in Hungary, HAM's dad complained to FIA even having Dennis asking him not to, and amazingly the driver was penalized for obeying team orders and not the team as a whole - man, I would have loved Barrichello to get penalized that GP where he did slam the brakes for Schumi to overtake him on last lap, ten meters away, and hand him the world title, but instead they penalized (or warned, can't truly remember) Ferrari.
Further into the point, there was a statement somewhere by Juan Pablo Montoya, where he said something in the lines of that Dennis is one guy when you're not working with him than when you're working with him. As far as his quote let me understand, he also was promised 'off the records' to be #1 on McLaren, and all of you know how it went, don't you?
I think he's still got more potential than people thinks, but that doesn't mean he would have an easy go with the current level of drivers. About the best drivers... Well, they usually don't go F1 or don't stay for too long, the way the 'sport' is now - it's as if the main requirement would be to have a face that doesn't hurt to look at and always talk nice things rather than having raw skill.
I have read in this very forum (not same thread) that Senna wasn't liked much before his death because he also was a 'hardened pro', and people did look at him as an arrogant driver. That doesn't stop many people to consider him one of the best F1 drivers ever though.
That Alonso is better off with his mouth shut, I agree that sometimes it is like that, but I might stress that there are far A LOT more of interests on the media to make people think he is what most anti-Alonso people thinks of him than to keep filters out and see who he really is.
However, as most people in this thread bashing Alonso doesn't understand further spanish after 'cerveza', 'paella' or 'amigo', I would recommend them to get a good translator and read what he actually does say without so many 'filters' in between. More than one will actually be willing to switch sides. Just to strengthen my point here, there is an argument on what actually Senna meant by saying that "Karting is the most pure form of racing", since it was originally stated in portuguese, and the context between languages is quite different.
+1 to more detailed tracks, with more bumps, dirt and overall 'feeling'.
Right now they somehow feel like duct tape on grass/sand, however they're still nice, but miss the 'raw' or 'visceral' feel, considering the 'age' of the cars we race on. New cars do actually feel so neutral that it feels clinical indeed, but it should feel more like real tracks with dirt, bumps and 80's or early 90's cars.
Right now they somehow feel like duct tape on grass/sand, however they're still nice, but miss the 'raw' or 'visceral' feel, considering the 'age' of the cars we race on. New cars do actually feel so neutral that it feels clinical indeed, but it should feel more like real tracks with dirt, bumps and 80's or early 90's cars.
Completely agree but one thing :
- Have the option to get the side swapped in the event you move to another country via a moderator or similar way that forces it to not to be too often.
-1
It might look like it happens like the OP described when you watch F1 or so (however it's deceiving because you don't hear all the radio conversation), but racing is filled with thousands of varieties, and more often than not you'll find yourself being your 'pit stop mechanic'.
It might look like it happens like the OP described when you watch F1 or so (however it's deceiving because you don't hear all the radio conversation), but racing is filled with thousands of varieties, and more often than not you'll find yourself being your 'pit stop mechanic'.
Some people does indeed have a tendency to let their nerves break loose (a more elegant way of describing the attitude you defined with your three-letter word
) when there's something written that makes them lose their time on something that is not interesting to them, either because is written in a way that is not respectful enough (to the community, to the developers, to the moderators...) or by not making the small effort to search if their question or suggestion has been posted before. It's a case of 'today for me, tomorrow for you', and it's a golden rule on pretty much every forum, so you don't get called troll or some other word to describe this attitude. If you make browsing the forum better (or not worse) for other people, they will answer you nice enough and have no trouble at all. But if you make them lose their time over the same subject that they've read and answered politely about ten times before, they are going to be angry, just as much as demanding things that already exist (albeit in other games that would suit the thread starter better).
All in all, it's about humans and the hard time they have sharing their world with other people of their same species.
You know what annoys you, so if you don't want people to get upset at you, don't do that. Then, learn what they don't want and you will have a healthy atmosphere.
Edit:
Yes, but this should also apply to people who starts threads, which is the part that most people who is either new to forums or new to this community doesn't understand.
It's not only answers that must be constructive, good or nice, it's also new threads.
Last edited by DeMS, .
As stated before, final planned release of LFS is going to be S3, thus making the game be quite affordable (36 pounds or 45€, what you would expect for a 'cheap' game in Europe, but 71$ more a less in the USA), always depending on exchange rates for other currencies, but that happens all the time. If you dare to compare, at time of launch the PS3 costed 600$ on USA and 600€ in Europe, which is 938$ right now. You might pay 60$ for your games, we pay from 50 to 60€ here, some cheaper down to 40€, that would be 62 to 93$. Thing is, we've paid a lot more for years, there was barely any complaint. Now plenty of business (not specifically talking about videogames here) are jumping ships and switching to Euro, and you'll equally feel it. It's the way world goes.
So then you would not be able to afford GT5 (60$), so be happy you can find a cheap game! (24$ LFS)
They are new games the same way that one version of LFS has a huge amount of upgrades and updates over another (talking about licenses here mostly), just like you would have with Gran Turismo Prologue and GT5, but with that analogy you would have to pay the full game afterwards, so I don't know which business model is better or worse, if we're kept objective.
Just as a matter of a tip : Get S2.
You will get the new cars and tracks, which will be more than enough to justify the price.
If other posts are not clear enough for it:
- You pay so the game can keep on being developed, so there can be more updates, upgrades and new content (new content may be added free of cost, just like the FBM).
- S2 would be S1 with expansion pack as of now. However, it does almost double the content of S1, and most updates/upgrades would not be possible if people had not bought S1.
- The license system is there to be escalable. You might not want to pay too much or might not have enough money, so you get the same game, with the same characteristics of the latest license available, but with somewhat less content. If you want more (which you will want), you can just get another license, which is cheaper than a new game or most add-on packages.
Bottom point :
You decide
+1
It doesn't make much sense that road cars have the same wheel as race cars.
However, it's accessory imo
It doesn't make much sense that road cars have the same wheel as race cars.
However, it's accessory imo
That's what I was referring to when I was saying that radio/telemetry is not cheap : the advantages it could possibly bring into club racing are quite low compared to the price you had have to pay to get them and have someone to operate the stuff (surely it would be totally useless if there's no one to tell you what's up/what's wrong), thus being unreliable unless, as you stated, you can build your system on your own (that might represent about 1% of actual club racers?
)About damage and realism : the more and more accurate, the better.
After some time HUD can even get annoying and distract from the feeling of immersion, so quite everything apart from the represented objects (thinking about car/track/physics) is accessory and unrealistic to anyone who has raced.
But then again, there is lots of people who needs something to grab themselves upon in order to not to get lost the first weeks/months, so plenty of things are useful for them to learn and not getting bored in the process.
+1 for gauges for oil temperature/pressure and water temperature
+1 for more and more realistic damage
+1 for some sort of hardcore mode, both offline and online
+1 for some kind of chat so Gekkibi and tristancliffe can express themselves
I'm rather sure, on the other side, that it's quite hard to find on a cheap fashion:
a) A one-way radio that covers the distances of your typical race track (up to 3km on small ones, a lot more than that on big tracks) on a plain, level terrain.
b) A good quality headset that you can put inside your helmet without your ears hurting too much that you can hear something close to human voices from it. Add extra cash if you also want to understand them.
c) Some data collecting hardware-software system that is useful enough to tell you something you don't know so people from your pit wall can send some useful information (apart from position, which is something you should already know anyway), which includes another radio-component to send data.
d) Someone either foolish or dedicated enough to stay on pit wall to look at the data and communicate with you in an understandable fashion, giving relevant bits and pieces of relevant information (go and find that person, it's quite hard without paying or being into a club).
Keep in mind that :
a) Even F1 headsets/radios are not crystal clear and sometimes they have to shout the same things more than once.
b) On non-level terrain radios tend to be almost useless. WRC provides teams with radio coverage having a plane to send the radio feed and giving different frequencies to each team.
Not cheap.
+1
+2
+3
It would make for better layouts, I think.
For autocross, I guess it would be better to wait until autocross area is bigger though
+2
+3
It would make for better layouts, I think.
For autocross, I guess it would be better to wait until autocross area is bigger though
Yes, that's the spirit, but you might want to recognize there is going to be truckloads of people who just exploits bugs in order to be more competitive (this does exist on each and every on line community, sadly), and what other way is better than not allowing them to have an advantage over people who does things right?
Again, yes, changing gears without clutch is quite meant to destroy your clutch, and the analogue effect on LFS would be to put clutch temperature or damage (once it's modeled), or any other measure to avoid people from driving in an unrealistic way without penalties.
Thanks to all of you who answered :]
Not talking about the formulas here, but I thought most if not all 90's and 80's cars just show percentage in the fuel gauge in the fashion of :
'Full'
'1/2'
'Empty'
With a couple of lines to specify 3/4 and 1/4.
However, I see the change of the percentage towards another measure a waste of time of sorts, since then people would want their own measuring value (liters, UK gallons, USA gallons, barrels...) and such, whereas the percentage gives an accurate enough figure - in my opinion
'Full'
'1/2'
'Empty'
With a couple of lines to specify 3/4 and 1/4.
However, I see the change of the percentage towards another measure a waste of time of sorts, since then people would want their own measuring value (liters, UK gallons, USA gallons, barrels...) and such, whereas the percentage gives an accurate enough figure - in my opinion
I quite like the idea of having a race on the mountains/uphill/downhill/other configurations that include narrow track and nature on complicated shapes, as long as it can be raced like the rest of LFS tracks (in laps) and that it doesn't force one style of racing or a methodology to see who wins or who loses.
I don't want to be forced into drifting and I don't want to be forced to play the same thing that NFS:C had, but I want to be able to race on a track where I acknowledge the damage of taking a bad turn to be fatal...Virtually
Yes, it is a pain in that part of the body that you use to sit down to do that while driving. However, as tristancliffe would say when he pops up sometime later, like 90% of the actual race drivers don't have a team leader and have to do that by themselves, and since LFS seems to be more oriented towards club racing, it would be unrealistic.
However, as an idea it's not bad, and I would go towards being able to pre-set a certain number of race strategies and have it linked to some buttons, so you could still change your strategy while driving at the cost of one key stroke.
So you could have presets to 'change tires only', 'add a certain amount of fuel only', 'repair damage' and so on, adding them up if you would want or need it, since that would be a kind of confirmation of what you 'want'.
Unless some competition would specifically want that to happen (in case they ran in teams and somebody would have to organize things), I don't like the idea much.
+1 to the idea of entering setup screen once you've parked into your garage, as long as parking means to stop engine and put handbrake on, and as long as you can disable it.
Yes, that's what I meant, thanks :]
Oh, and there is a way to model gearbox behavior in-game, and that is, induce Clutch damage (or clutch temperature) to those cars that are operated this way, so they would make sure they did it the right way.
Obvious exception of that would be the situation that Woz posted (which as far as I know, it's not common in racing situations).
Only links I would be able to provide would be towards spanish media. As such, I'm both unsure of whether they're reliable, right or even if that did exist. I know I heard such things on spanish TV while seeing those GP's. Only 'evidence' of this happening (meaning the opinions of the comentators) would be spanish newspapers, I think.
However, keep in mind that Anthony Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton's manager.
I do surely agree that the feeling is that FIA doesn't seem how they do operate themselves on certain events.
PD : Wiki has some of it, but doesn't specify who or what, exactly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton#Team_tensions
A link of a summary of spanish media from 2007 season (yes, in spanish, ain't got a translation :/ sorry ):
http://f1.informativos.telecinco.es/f1_1390.htm
Please note that different media does give different views from the same thing. I'm neither Alonso's fan nor Hamilton's fan.
Actually, the system you're talking about would make real sense, but I very much doubt it could be implemented on WTCC, which compared to other race events is rather 'low-cost' (it's not cheap, but rules set to equal team's performances, aerodynamics, electric aids and such are to lower developing costs and make the races more enjoyable to watch to most people), so they don't have such DTM or F1 budgets to go and make complete new cars that work under the specifications.
However, even if tech is important, the point of WTCC, considering the ruleset, it's rather to give a certain technical level as a base so the best driver might win, not the best car.
In many other racing series, I would agree with you, but it seems that all the FIA-controlled series move towards standarization, low cost to allow for lower budget teams and such to play a role and be able to win and limiting car's performance.
Even though I would like it to be without so many limitations, it's the way it seems to be heading, which is far away from those new technologies.
On a sidenote, it makes audience drop when you have a team that is far superior to the other ones, and one of the biggest financement options of nowadays racing is sponsoring to get advertisement, and as such they need to atract people to watch the series. And I'm sure that with the current level of driving of most people, they would find it 'dull'.
There was quite a lot of incidents this season with McLaren's drivers, which depending on who you ask (country and language due to different countries having different media agencies and people talking one thing on one country and a different statement on the media of another) might be a different protagonist.
About the father, I do assume you know I'm talking about Anthony Hamilton, who did bring up some things over to the FIA that, it seems (at least from what I got from the media here), had to stay internal. Then again, you might think that the other driver did also do that, that's actually not true, but he also did shout some not very respectful things.
In any way, none of the three are exactly angels and completely innocent, even though spanish media is trying to make Alonso look like a victim and english media is also trying the same towards Hamilton.
Since only people inside McLaren knows all the truth, I do refrain from stating who's better or who's worse, I can just tell what I have seen and heard, and that's competitiveness at such a level where they both were not controllable by Ron Dennis.
That's what I was referring to.
As I wrote before, I ain't willing to favour one over the other, they're just F1 drivers to me, and I guess they both did what they thought right, so without direct knowledge it is real hard to know what really happened, but what looked like.
That said, respect for Ron Dennis and his work done on the team, same as I said in my other post, a shame to see another icon of the F1 go, one year after M. Schumacher (more a less), but good for new generations.
What I'm sure of, is that Not Sure was on-topic 
Although I never actually came to like McLaren as a team (that comes from much before Alonso got in, including those horrible race days where newbie Raikkonnen would be hit by Montoya) since I always found it to be quite unorganized in a way, more like contradicting itself than being not well thought up, but I kind of liked Ron Dennis thinking he was a nice guy who would work a lot for his team, and not just a guy that 'is there barking orders everywhere'.
Even though last F1 season took a big dip on his image and destroyed part of his 'savoir-faire' looks, I am still convinced he's a good guy to who events have gone off the rails, thus him not being able to fully control the circus his team has come to be thanks to both his drivers and one of the driver's father.
Even though right now it's the right decision both from familiar point of view and the right professional moment (it was rumoured that Mercedes wanted to buy the team quite a while ago), I think he will still be there, in the dark, helping the team in a way similar to what M. Schumacher is doing by helping Ferrari.
All in all, another person who has been part of the story of F1 is going, one year after Schumacher went away, so I say :
'Let the new generation make history'
Even though last F1 season took a big dip on his image and destroyed part of his 'savoir-faire' looks, I am still convinced he's a good guy to who events have gone off the rails, thus him not being able to fully control the circus his team has come to be thanks to both his drivers and one of the driver's father.
Even though right now it's the right decision both from familiar point of view and the right professional moment (it was rumoured that Mercedes wanted to buy the team quite a while ago), I think he will still be there, in the dark, helping the team in a way similar to what M. Schumacher is doing by helping Ferrari.
All in all, another person who has been part of the story of F1 is going, one year after Schumacher went away, so I say :
'Let the new generation make history'
I'm not going to go into the general topic of this thread, but rather into the part related to WTCC, specifying this at the start so you can skip on reading if not interested.
I think the diesels on WTCC make for a more balanced series as of now, since you grow to have all brands to compete for the title, which makes it more to most spectator's liking (more action, cars with closer specs, and such), so the BMW's are faster on the turns (mostly because they're RWD) and the SEATs on the straights (thanks to the TDI engine mostly and being slower on the turns because they are FWD, so more understeer leads to lower turning speeds), can't comment on the Chevrolets of this year since they didn't have a great race, but I think they'll catch up with the rest.
That said, it makes for more exciting series all around, each car has a special part of the race where they're better than the other, so driver's mind need to be making calculations all the time, since it's no longer the same thing having one car behind of you or one of another make. Thus it makes things more exciting and balanced -for the spectators-, at the cost of an artificial 'level ground'.
People who's into racing might not like it too much, but people who enjoys watching race events will most probably do like it (same distinction as people who plays football/soccer to those who enjoy watching it, different points of view on the same matter).
Another oppinion worth two cents
I think the diesels on WTCC make for a more balanced series as of now, since you grow to have all brands to compete for the title, which makes it more to most spectator's liking (more action, cars with closer specs, and such), so the BMW's are faster on the turns (mostly because they're RWD) and the SEATs on the straights (thanks to the TDI engine mostly and being slower on the turns because they are FWD, so more understeer leads to lower turning speeds), can't comment on the Chevrolets of this year since they didn't have a great race, but I think they'll catch up with the rest.
That said, it makes for more exciting series all around, each car has a special part of the race where they're better than the other, so driver's mind need to be making calculations all the time, since it's no longer the same thing having one car behind of you or one of another make. Thus it makes things more exciting and balanced -for the spectators-, at the cost of an artificial 'level ground'.
People who's into racing might not like it too much, but people who enjoys watching race events will most probably do like it (same distinction as people who plays football/soccer to those who enjoy watching it, different points of view on the same matter).
Another oppinion worth two cents
Clutch only changing gears when it's done right for H-pattern car clutching
I was talking to a friend about that the other day.
Whenever you try to change gear in LFS, may it be to a higher or lower one, with a H-pattern shifter (such as the one the G25 has), you can do it the right way (release the throttle pedal while pressing the clutch pedal, put gear on place, press throttle pedal while releasing the clutch pedal) or, if that does not work or you have done it wrong, you'll be put in neutral (but the gear on your stick will still be on the same place) and with just one press on the clutch pedal the car will be put into the desired gear.
The improvement I would like to see on that is :
If you have not geared correctly so you're put into neutral, you would need to repeat the right operation, putting your stick into neutral again and doing the correct steps, plus getting clutch damage as it would happen on a real car (there are cars with which you can change gears without clutch, but on a certain RPM's, and they're quite old too).
Putting the gear stick into a gear without pressing the clutch pedal at all should cause the engine to stall, with some damage and heat to the clutch.
There should be other mis-gearing circumstances where the result would be different (heh, I might be wrong about the whole thing), but basically I'm saying that the penalization of not gearing right is somewhat lower than in real world cases, and that this behaivour should be modifyed.
PD : I have not found a related thread anywhere on this forum, but if you know where it is, please paste a link, I'll be thankful.
PD2 : I'm sorry if this came up before or it just is 'unreal', I'm speaking of something that many people I know told me on their experiences of driving for a very long time (just unlike me)
Whenever you try to change gear in LFS, may it be to a higher or lower one, with a H-pattern shifter (such as the one the G25 has), you can do it the right way (release the throttle pedal while pressing the clutch pedal, put gear on place, press throttle pedal while releasing the clutch pedal) or, if that does not work or you have done it wrong, you'll be put in neutral (but the gear on your stick will still be on the same place) and with just one press on the clutch pedal the car will be put into the desired gear.
The improvement I would like to see on that is :
If you have not geared correctly so you're put into neutral, you would need to repeat the right operation, putting your stick into neutral again and doing the correct steps, plus getting clutch damage as it would happen on a real car (there are cars with which you can change gears without clutch, but on a certain RPM's, and they're quite old too).
Putting the gear stick into a gear without pressing the clutch pedal at all should cause the engine to stall, with some damage and heat to the clutch.
There should be other mis-gearing circumstances where the result would be different (heh, I might be wrong about the whole thing), but basically I'm saying that the penalization of not gearing right is somewhat lower than in real world cases, and that this behaivour should be modifyed.
PD : I have not found a related thread anywhere on this forum, but if you know where it is, please paste a link, I'll be thankful.
PD2 : I'm sorry if this came up before or it just is 'unreal', I'm speaking of something that many people I know told me on their experiences of driving for a very long time (just unlike me
)FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG