Yup, it's harder to lock one wheel up than people thinks, considering you have to apply over 50kg of force to brake relatively hard (some braking points before turns require drivers to apply around 100kg of force, right from their shoe), however in the heat of a tight race it gets harder to not to do it while pushing at the limit. So from what you lot have said, it's much more possible that he was just making the show but in truth he wasn't bad at it at all.
I guess the answer to this one would lie on one of those favorite thoughts of many people, that since everyone who drives single seater cars competitively are awesomely good drivers, thus you need to be really good in order to be able to drive one of those.
Gotta love the myths, huh?
Back on topic:
There's no doubt Shoemaker is/has been an awesome driver, but on the other side he has had no true continued competition (most drivers with WDC title during the Schumi era came and went so fast it was annoying) from any other top class driver (Senna died, Hill/Villeneuve/Hakkinen retired and so on) until somehow he was beaten up twice by a certain spaniard.
His style of driving, in my most humble opinion, was extremely conditioned by the brand of tyres Ferrari was using at the time (as far as I remember, Bridgestone), which allowed for slightly more constant grip on difficult situations (without sliding) but under extreme conditions were wilder and more unpredictable than, for example, the Michelin ones, that liked to slide somewhat more. That made him look like he was on the limit all the time but without crossing the thin line that separates that from having an accident, since he always knew where the car's limit was.
Whatever some people might say about him, he was a really nice driver to watch race, even if after so many years winning you might get a little bit bored, but still he managed to pull some truly awesome tricks out of nowhere.
He will be missed if he doesn't come back.
Even though it could go into a finger-pointing war, I still think it wasn't racism but for a couple of idiots - the rest were having fun as it was carnival, and thought it would be fitting to mix party with F1, which obviously ended up with such a big mess.
Saying that, extreme competition makes press go 'hostile' against anyone who 'threatens' the local 'hero', the same way it might have happened to 'Long-so' from UK's press, judging from comments coming from people who only believes in the media, and never saw actual interviews - which are the ones that hold the truth about who is who.
I wouldn't put the teams on it, but the drivers. Both teams have superb cars, seemingly easy to drive, great traction, good max speed, robust engines and quite good tactics. It's just as if the pilots would think 'we're the best, so why bother fighting so hard? Let's take it easier', or would have their mood flowing like a sinus. So, I would say (and I imagine it was your point too) that those team's drivers are acting unprofessional/being lazy, and that anyone with the right attitude (and car) could take the crowd over them - just like Kubica and BMW are proving, since he is 1st and the team is just 4 points behind current leader -.
However, if those two (teams) manage to wake up, it might get 'boring' for people who likes F1 and not only one of the winning teams - Interview from one of Ferrari fans last year Shoe-maker won a title ; Q: Why are you a Ferrari fan? A: Because they always win!.
If I was in his position I would, because even if I could think it would be emotionally wrong (since some people thinks here in Spain we're all racists and hate Ha-my-LOL... Sorry to burst your bubble, we're not neither thing), it would prevent people from making conspiracy theories and all that, summed in the saying 'making wood out of the fallen log'.
However, considering his interview on ITV and the poor way he expressed himself, if I was him, I would have NOT conceded any interview and let someone else type what I must say, not to make a fool out of myself.
About Kubica, he's probably the most constant driver so far, and judging what gave Raikkönen the WDC win last year, he's got options to win provided the main drivers from Fed-carry and MyLaughter keep on running into trouble.
As seen on Bahrain, you mean?
Quite funny that he gave an interview to ITV (where most his fan-base is) but not to many other TV stations, including neither of the 2 spain-based ones (since I live in a part of spain with two official languages, we get the national coverage as well as the regional one, neither does have JA's commentary and are fully independent from each other, such a wonder... Don't you wanna learn spanish now?
). All in all, it makes me wonder, at least, who's more suitable to be a WDC... I mean, Kubica makes barely no mistakes, speaks out of his mind, is on a slower car and now has the points lead...
Let's see what's up next races because season is getting quite interesting.
Go Robert go! :]
Same thing happened to everyone that's not a Hamilton fan last year. I mean, amongst other things, he did overtake a SC and not get penalized?
Looks like FIA likes to take sides lately.
However, I think this very penalty is right. Crashing against two stopped cars on the pit lane while the red light is on is a HUGE mistake, and makes F1 look even less 'elite' to north american people than it had already done past years (remember the USA GP when only six cars raced?).
Erm... I guess this calls for a reality check from his point of view.
If he has a driving license - meaning to drive on the streets -, he should know that the one from behind is almost always (rare cases apart) the one to blame.
Agreed. I already had too much with Ha-my-lol's apparent invulnerability last year.
Hello, wake up!
He's both saying different things to different channels/countries AND the media is making some stuff up. I remember a particular moment last season when he said to one country/channel 'I have learnt nothing from Alonso' and on another one he said 'I have learnt a lot from Alonso', directly from his lips.
Besides, why would Kimi get penalized? Okai, he was side by side to Kubica, but AFAIK that's not an illegal move. It would be different if he took some team's lollypop and tried to cover the red light with it, but truth is he did nothing wrong (and even if he did, there was no way he could have avoided the crash).
Great race to watch, impressive performance from Kubica and well kept up by both Heifeld and DC (now, after so much trouble with his brakes on the last laps, truly deserved).
Noticeably good for Vettel, new found respect for Massa and quite good race for both Toyota and Honda.
Shame about both McLarens (even if they looked to be the top performers on qualification), both Renaults (at least 'Lonso admitted it was his fault - drove on the dirt) and somewhat on Rosberg - he was both trying harder than he could and somewhat unlucky, however if he keeps pushing something good might come out.
Exactly my thoughts, after he tried to convince everyone luck doesn't exist when it comes to Ha-my-LoL
Noticeably good for Vettel, new found respect for Massa and quite good race for both Toyota and Honda.
Shame about both McLarens (even if they looked to be the top performers on qualification), both Renaults (at least 'Lonso admitted it was his fault - drove on the dirt) and somewhat on Rosberg - he was both trying harder than he could and somewhat unlucky, however if he keeps pushing something good might come out.
Exactly my thoughts, after he tried to convince everyone luck doesn't exist when it comes to Ha-my-LoL
Great news! Let's hope it stays true for sunday aswell, would be awesome to see another wet race with a mixed up grid.
I'm hoping for Kubica to push hard this time, last year he almost saw God on this one, so one would expect him to be highly motivated (or scared, but that would be unprofessional), so let's see what he can do.
Thanks for the news! :]
Completely agreed. It's something to be assumed that a good driver (but not impressive neither very good) with a good car equals to a winning combination. Especially when engines are so different from one team to another (over 60 HP). So for him to prove his value, he should have started somewhere else rather from one of the top teams.
Actually, the Renault was not that good until 2004. 2002 he was a test driver, so that would be off as well. Probably the only years when Renault had a top-three car (not the best car though) were 2004-2005-2006. Hard to judge though.
Yup, and that's something I am willing to see, meaning that, for example, Massa is not a top-notch driver (even if he's trying real hard to prove me wrong
) but has an awesome car, thus he's able to get to podium quite often. However, if you look at his time at Sauber/Petronas, you will see that he wasn't specially efficient there - whatever reason it might be -, lagging behind Fisichella on 2004 season.In any way, waiting this Canadian GP with hopes to see 'things happening'.
Honestly, I think it would make a more elegant, smart and professional package to have it's own installer. Providing no installer feels unprofessional and amateurish to most people. As long as it doesn't take any important size hit, it's an interesting idea.
Let's see if the dev's will come to like it.
Open source means it's free for you to modify it to fit your needs, it doesn't specifically mean you can use it for free for any use you might want to think about.
The piece of paper (be it physical or virtual) that defines whether you can re-distribute some program or not (for free or else) is the license, and this is what we should read about it.
I don't know if this particular installer is free to use for everyone, but usually they are not when it's for commercial purposes. I could be wrong, and I hope so as well.
Cheers.
I agree it would be an interesting idea, however most of those installers are owned by companies, and most have a license that sets it free for non-profit issues, but you need to pay if it's for commercial products.
While I don't know whether Scawen & Co. are willing to pay for it or not, I think a self-extracting file is easy enough to use so anyone can extract the game safely wherever they want. Maybe the only thing would be to have a pop-up window (like this that you get while entering Test forum) with instructions on how to use it properly.
Don't feel sorry :]
I don't see why it should not be an option on single player/practice and a server-side option. Everyone should be able to play the game, but if you're met with people of your same skill level, you might be able to enjoy it double time.
You can turn your head, but sound is stereo.
There are more ways than just one to 'feel' damage - could also be done via FFB -, and visual or auditive feedback are just a couple of them.
Also, most of those failures you're using as example should be spotted via water and oil temperature gauges, which are in plenty a lot of cars and is what we're asking.
About stuff being simulated. It's a simulator. It's not a car you can race. What do you expect?
Remember, just my opinion. Not like I'm gonna bite anyone.
Completely agreed. Not everyone is actually rich, and reality differs a lot from what people have idealized in their minds.
Agreed, that's what most people is saying in this thread. You don't have meter or light that shows engine damage, you have (in some cars you even don't have it) a water temperature gauge and an oil temperature gauge, at best, to check if everything is good engine-wise. It's all about what's more realistic AND common, taking into account the cars on LFS originate on late 80-first 90's models.
You can have a paper-printed copy of the track pasted on your dashboard, but that's not usual for people who takes racing serious. They usually know races by hearth.
However, LFS doesn't feature tracks that are available in real life, so it's a good measure to let newcomers learn, I think. In any way, it's good to have it on offline and on non-competitive game modes (for example, hot lapping).
I don't think that making a 'simulator' less realistic is going to help the developer's efforts. Prior to patch Y some mouths were thinking of LFS as 'arcadey' since it did not feature realistic clutching and you could use pedals as if it was another arcade, tire physics permitting.
There is no such thing as 'realism extremists', but rather people tired of seeing how different driving a car is compared to LFS. I mean, my car had some bearing balls broken on one wheel, and I did not have any indicator flashing indicating it was damaged, just a dull sound, and I had to find out where it came from and what was it. Same happened once when one of the small joints of the cooling system went free and had lots of smoke all over the front of the car (okai, it's an old one, that's why it has so much trouble). In real life there's nothing that comes to you flashing in front of your eyes telling you what's going on. Specially not on late 80's, early 90's models (like the one I've got).
So why should they be on a 'simulator'?
Specially when it comes to have a competitive community - leagues and so -, where all those unrealistic aids help people who doesn't know what driving or racing means or actually is to achieve something they would never be able to in real life. Then, it's just not 'simulating' real racing world.
Weather is quite crazy those last couple of weeks, so who knows what will happen at race time.
It would be interesting to see rain, it would be one of the few times that it would have rained on a spanish track with F1 cars racing there, and it would make the championship more entertaining - messing driver's points and positions a bit.
Let's see what happens, I expect a couple of surprises, but not in the top spots (I am expecting Ferrari to get the upper hand there), although I do hope I'm wrong and Kubica-BMW Sauber gets his first 1st position.
It would be interesting to see rain, it would be one of the few times that it would have rained on a spanish track with F1 cars racing there, and it would make the championship more entertaining - messing driver's points and positions a bit.
Let's see what happens, I expect a couple of surprises, but not in the top spots (I am expecting Ferrari to get the upper hand there), although I do hope I'm wrong and Kubica-BMW Sauber gets his first 1st position.
Sir, you should stop reading my mind, else I will denounce my lack of privacy on your presence
Not that I want to go offtopic, but I think those spanish 'supercars' are closer to completion. In fact, one is already being sold:
http://www.tramontanagroup.com/
http://www.gtaconcept.com/
Never fear, the sites are also in english.
What this comes from : Marlboro is still Ferrari's main sponsor, but they are barely present on the cars due to restrictions of tobacco advertisements.
What I meant was older F1 Ferrari's paint job with the Marlboro ads, it looked quite cool,[sarcasm] despite being out of something as dangerous as tobacco. I guess they might restrict alcoholic drinks next as in Johnnie Walker [/sarcasm].
However, let's hope you do repeat a podium this year, Tristan :]
Well, since VAG owns Lamborghini, it is not a desesperate guess that as a group they might be present on F1. Also, they are quite wealthy as of now and could attempt it.
Another matter is which team should they buy, thinking that Toro Rosso and Super Aguri might be on sale quite soon...
Peugeot was into F1 for quite some years already in the past.
Although Kia/Hyundai look good to go into F1, they are a long way to go considering how many years did it take Toyota to build a midfield car.
Suzuki is there as Super Aguri, in a way, but not officially supported by Suzuki, the car maker, I agree (Super Aguri references to Aguri Suzuki, who as far as I know was a F1 driver and owns either partially or fully Suzuki).
Mercedes is there as McLaren-Mercedes, however it's not only an engine supplier but also has shares on McLaren, so they are there.
And I thought Tata was there as Force India? As Super Aguri, not directly coming from the father company, but from the owner.
Feel free to correct me, just talking out of what I remember.
Agreed, they could even revamp old names like 'Arrows', even though it is unlikely that they would fight for more than midfield.
F1 used to be a showcase of technical innovations where brands used to show their strength, both financial and technological, to get better reputation. Nowadays they limited everything so much it's barely a matter of who had the best engine when they regulated them, who gets the best chassis before pre-season ends and who has the best driver. Not that amusing after all the gadgets that plagued F1 on the 90's.
As a distasteful move, FIA banned rotatory engines after a Madza 767 (or so) won in one of their competitions. But they banned also cars with more or less than 4 wheels, 4-wheel-traction, ESP, ABS, turbo technology... It's putting there in a place where they are probably going towards a technology that is going to be obsolete pretty soon. I can imagine kids in 2012 : 'Lolz! F1 use atmospheric engines! I just found out!!111!!11 LolZ1!! Teh l00zers!'.
Euh... I refrain from anyone quoting that last sentence, I will deny it's mine.
Congratulations! :]
Just keep on trying next races, something good may happen, who knows :]
Oh, and scrap that idea of painting the helmet until someone wants to sponsor you (then you ask them for some fashionable painting/stickers/new helmet), and use that money to upgrade the car or perform proper maintenance.
Also, white on red looks cool, remembers me the color scheme of Ferrari when Marlboro was their main sponsor.
Keep on going :]
Just keep on trying next races, something good may happen, who knows :]
Oh, and scrap that idea of painting the helmet until someone wants to sponsor you (then you ask them for some fashionable painting/stickers/new helmet), and use that money to upgrade the car or perform proper maintenance.
Also, white on red looks cool, remembers me the color scheme of Ferrari when Marlboro was their main sponsor.
Keep on going :]
I think the option that makes most sense would be that one brand out of the WV group would start up on F1, even buying (partially or totally) a current team (sadly, Williams seems to be a candidate, if they are unable to achieve some interesting results this season) or starting their own, maybe even cooperating with a team that already was there to start with a fan-base to attract sponsors (Minardi, Brabham, Tyrrell... They 'just' need to buy the rights).
Potential alternatives would be the PSA group (Peugeot-Citroën) or some kind of Korean/asiatic brand with lots of money to spare, that if there's no northern-american group (GM?) that does try to get into F1 because of the kind of unstable moment (or that's the looks of it from here) of the 'big' open wheelers on USA.
So in any account, there are potential demand of teams to enter F1, just it's a silly attempt with current rule set and limitations, which I agree with some fellow forum users, are just a misfired shot towards nowhere. FIA should get their act together and claim F1 as either 'top-tech, top-notch' series or 'equalized' closed-tech series, but knowing where it's going towards, it's not like I'd get amused by their choice.
Just my two cents, be free to differ :]
Potential alternatives would be the PSA group (Peugeot-Citroën) or some kind of Korean/asiatic brand with lots of money to spare, that if there's no northern-american group (GM?) that does try to get into F1 because of the kind of unstable moment (or that's the looks of it from here) of the 'big' open wheelers on USA.
So in any account, there are potential demand of teams to enter F1, just it's a silly attempt with current rule set and limitations, which I agree with some fellow forum users, are just a misfired shot towards nowhere. FIA should get their act together and claim F1 as either 'top-tech, top-notch' series or 'equalized' closed-tech series, but knowing where it's going towards, it's not like I'd get amused by their choice.
Just my two cents, be free to differ :]
Memory fails me, so can you point out to me any time in the history of modern F1 (meaning the start of downforce cars) when a rookie started on the most powerful car on the grid after one year of 'free' testing? I very much doubt he would have had scored even half the points had he started on any midfield team, given that statistically he only arrives 1st on the races he makes a pole position on. Much like Massa, even though he did actually get into first without a pole position once, this weekend.
The expectations were unreasonably high last year as well, but that didn't stop the hype. Fifteen days prior to last '07 season's GP, pretty much nobody counted Räikkönen to win.
I would rather guess that he's not a great overtaker. I mean, such a class driver getting stopped by all those seemingly 'skill less' drivers at the back? Pure irony, in case you missed it.
Completely agree. People focuses too much on a driver that still has won 'nothing' apart from some races, deviating their views from actual world champions that still race, and I think they still have much more weight in the outcome of the season than people gives to the hyped guy.
Also, Schumi holds plenty of records, and if you dare to look at statistics, it's no wonder he was dominating. To some extent, I dislike Alonso for winning those two WDC to Schumi because I guess he could still race nowadays, had he wished. MS was one of those drivers that set some new standards on a variety of things, including mechanical work. It's not unfounded hype and it's not bias while talking about him, it's all there, in numbers, and everyone can check it.
Hum...
'Déjà vu' from the Malaysia GP :
Went in front of the TV, sat down on the sofa and saw the first lap.
Then woke up when there was 15 laps to go.
Then suddenly they were already on the podium.
Next thing I woke up on my bed.
And I swear I did not drink!
+1
I'm actually expecting such a fight since the pre-season ended. It seems like 2009 is going to be a lot more equal though, but 2008 is promising to deliver a good fight. And I agree that it's not actual hate towards LH, just about blind fanboyeurism most of the time, even though the guy is not exactly a saint, and it's going to be shown as his nerves start to boil later this season, if things keep going like this. He's good and fast if he starts on a good position, but else, he's just a pack driver with a good car.
I would rather say I don't like him because he pretends too much to be the 'oh so nice' guy, while he's showing more and more he's not. Nothing wrong with his driving skills, although heavily overrated by LH's fans. Would have been healthier for those to see him racing against MS, the german monopoly guy (not the american software one).
It should be well known that one of the biggest 'problems' with current Renault is the suspension system alltogether, forcing slow corner turn-in speeds and disallowing a full throttle maneuver after the apex. While the infamous 'mass-damper' technology by Renault was banned by the FIA, now most cars use a variation of the very same principle, just not Renault. Thus it is to be expected that FA's turning speeds will be slower. What I don't understand is what was LH doing behind a 'much slower car' for so long, but that's also something I don't mind not finding out about.
I laughed pretty hard when he started giving 'the hand' to other drivers he was fighting against, as if he had any kind of right to be let to top spots. That and the arrogance bit on your post kinda speaks for itself. In one race he made more signs of that than FA in most seasons - do not take that out of context, I mean actions, not words. Well, it's easier to get into a good position than to maintain it through a long time, and he's going to have a hard time this year, but next year is even going to be harder.
Quite true about most points.
On a side note, I would have loved to see LH starting on a minardi-like car his first year on F1, sure thing there would not be that much hype about him this way.
+1
+
I would not sign into any Anti-Whoever club by any reason. I think serials like House have shown that bad guys attract media much more than good looking virginal teenagers, and both LH and F1 are much more about having the media to talk about them than actually helping hardcore fans have their thing. They make it easier to talk about it and to make it popular, while lowering the level of the average F1 follower. It has it's good and bad part, just as probably everything.
Even though I didn't have to suffer Mr. James Allen's commentary, things in Spain ain't much different when it comes to who tells what, even though they are far more informative about general interest comments and not that much about driver's personal tastes. They have one hour just before the GP to fill with whatever story they see fit, and since I have 2 TV channels emitting the race (different languages, different areas, both inside Spain), I can pick which dish I wanna eat. Is that the same over UK or do you only have 1 channel?
And yes, the appeal of F1 to me is not the drivers, but rather the cars and the driving. I might prefer Kubica over Massa or Räikkönen over Kovalainen, but on a race I am prone to cheer skillful, graceful driving over anything else. I like to see winning who's worked for it real hard, not the one that is more sympathetic or who says the nicest things or who gives me presents (even though if they gave me a car I wouldn't fight against it :tilt
, and even luck being part of racing in general, it's what usually comes out happening.And that's one of the best things I see on F1.
The first one looks like he's trying to overtake a lapped car - correct me if mistaken - and even though he's making a dangerous turn, it could well be provoked by him showing the hand to the other guy. Not saying it's okay, just not seeing it as such a big thing.
The second one is quite a bad move indeed, made me quite angry (not exactly an Oalosno fan myself), but guess we will never know either if it was a human error, made on purpose, or the car misbehaving. [Edit] Uh, looking at it again, he brakes at the same place as the cars in front of him, so I guess it's not about his move that Coulthard goes out[/Edit]
Uh, and I do agree, what people says might not be the same as they think or do, but that's just defending hypocrits imo.
Last edited by DeMS, .
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