Quote from majod :

Too tired to quote. The pic of tiny piece of plane near Pentagon is totally worthless for me. That's all from the entire aircraft?

You made some valid points but I will not change my opinion about these things and any further debate is pointless. You think I'm an idiot, I don't think you're an idiot. I think there are things in the world we have no idea about and they (whoever you imagine as they) don't want us to know it.

Have a nice Christmass mate.

Thanks, dude. Same to you. And I should clarify. I don't think you're an idiot, but I think believing that 9/11 was a huge inside job-style conspiracy is idiotic. Maybe a distinction without meaning to you, but maybe not.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

My god Misfits season 4 is brilliant, how the hell did they managed to make it even better then previous seasons?

Definitely the worst season so far, but still pretty good. It's Misfits, after all.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Ahh, the flat earth society must be meeting.

Police audio stating they arrested a second person suggests just that

Eyewitness seeing someone else handcuffed on the ground suggests just that

Sorry, forgot that any evidence that suggests anything different wasn't permitted.

At least look at the evidence before stating it doesn't exist, that's what the cops are for........

Witnesses report all kinds of things immediately after the fact, when adrenaline is pumping and things are in a confusion. How many of those same witnesses are continuing to support those claims, a week later? I guess they were probably silenced by the masterminds behind the grand conspiracy, right?

And on another note, got any sources for these eyewitness claims?

Quote from majod :

I hope you can see what you did there. This is going heavily offtopic but you say the bandwagon is the reality. How do you know it is the reality? How do you know what I believe in is NOT the reality? Just because you believe something else, it must be the reality? Or because it was on TV it must be the reality? You just said that the official version is absolute truth. Why is the official version more valuable than the unofficial?

Typically because it's based on recorded evidence rather than unfounded suppositions by people who were nowhere near the actual event.

Quote :

You called me idiot because I don't believe what you believe but you're the one here saying that your version is the reality and it's the 100% truth. Just because you chose to believe something else. Tolerancy is almost shining from your words and I can see the glare on the western horizon...

I called you an idiot because I can see no logical grounds to assume that there's anything more to this incident than a crazy person mowing down innocents. It's not like this is the firs ... has happened or anything. The US has a serious problem with mass shootings, for reasons that are an endless subject of debate. (I have my own ideas as to why, as I'm sure does everyone else here.)

Quote :

You can be wrong as much as I can be. The difference is I'm not attacking anyone, my parents raised me well. I don't like arguing with anyone but I don't like when someone's attacking me on something very, very subjective. Mind your words next time. I'm an atheist and I'm not telling every Christian they're idiots because they chose to believe in God; also I'm not claiming this is the reality and it's the right way.

You can say that everything (truth, evidence, etc) is subjective, but that's not a very useful way to view the world unless your only goal is to muddy the waters and propagate theories that lack rational grounding. It's the same tactic that Christian conservatives and such use to argue that the earth is 4000 years old. I understand the urge—I come from a liberal arts background where I was strongly encouraged to doubt the truth of accepted facts and consider alternative viewpoints, but skepticism can be a tool for disinformation as well as truth-seeking.

Quote :

Now back on another offtopic. What made me think there's some "conspiracy" is the video I posted above, the police officer giving speech to the press. Now I can imagine response of others arguing how can I claim there's a conspiracy based on this single speech.

Because I think that arresting people for saying their opinions on social media has no place in fair liberal democratic country as USA says it is. That was the first hint something is not right. Then I began to investigate and every other article I read on this story just told me I'm thinking the good way. So I chosed to believe the other story. You can google all the information by yourself.

Let's take an alternative, Occam's razor approach to this cop's statements: He's emotionally shaken by the shooting, he (and others who live in the immediate area of the shooting) see people on the internet propagating falsehoods regarding to what happened there, and in his emotional state he makes a foolish threat that he can't legally back up.

One guy's emotional response to a couple dozen schoolkids getting gunned down in his community, or a national/worldwide conspiracy to limit first amendment rights to free speech? Yeah, must be the latter.

Quote :

You can also call me an idiot because I don't believe in 9/11 and you say the reality is that muslims crashed the planes and there are terrorists everywhere and USA must kill them all cos they're the bad guys. But you neither I can say that our story is the right one, until we have all the evidence on the surface. And we don't. We just have news reports and expert analysis and 4 frames from video showing tiny black object hitting the Pentagon. You can choose to believe a plane crashed there, I chose not to because I never saw a plane there.

You're right, I can call you an idiot for this. And I do. There's plenty of evidence that it was in fact a passenger jet that hit the pentagon if you'd like to open your eyes to it, but you won't. Sure, there are just as many resources that you can find arguing that it was a missile, or an alien ship, or a bomb. OMG, who can you trust?! Obviously no one, right?



If you disbelieve everything you don't witness with your own eyes, you must live in a very different world than most of us. You think you're enlightened because you choose to believe something different than the majority, but that's an error. You're unenlightened for ignoring evidence and logic in favor of conspiracy and paranoia.

Sincerely,
The Sheeple

Quote from majod :

Oh the joy of online forums - if you're not in the bandwagon, you're an idiot. You look like you're just walking around the streets and calling people ****ers and idiots just because they do/believe something else than you do.

edit: reaction to post above, which was edited later.

"The bandwagon" = reality.

I ask again, what makes you overlook the obvious explanation for what happened in favor of some elaborate conspiracy/coverup?

Quote from Dennis93 :

I'm not a racist, though I think...

Dennis, plz. You know better than this.

Quote from majod :

The pic is about unjustice of US behavior. It for example says how huge media coverage took this shooting world-wide and how no one notices what USA is doing in Palestine with Israel. Every death like this is pointless and believe me or not, I'm always very unhappy when something like this happens, anywhere in the world. Killing anyone is very wrong.

There is near constant coverage of Israel and Palestine, though of course it's not as hyperbolic as the coverage of shootings like this. The conflict over there has been going on for more than 50 years. How are you surprised that a fresh new tragedy gets more coverage than a half-century-old undeclared war?

Quote :

But I do not believe that this kid alone killed 20 children and 6 adults in such short time. I do not believe even one word of the so-called medical examiner who couldn't answer simple questions to the press.

To understand this, one is required to dug deeper in the story. And most important to learn all of the facts, not only those you see on TV. In the end it's like religion, you can choose what you will believe. After reading multiple articles and seeing many videos on the situation, I chose to not believe anything that press says about it because, in my opinion, it's full of crap and nonsense.

Thanks for not understand and calling me whatever the stars is.

Why is it more plausible to you that there's some massive conspiracy, rather than the Occam's razor explanation that a nutjob shot a bunch of unarmed teachers and kids?

Quote from majod :

There's so much going on behind Sandy shooting but people just don't want to accept it. Those who are willing to look for truth will be hunted by the police.

Oh come on.

Karl, thanks for the nice lapping behavior. Same to Mr. Lago.

pretty awesome broadcast IMO

teamName: CoRe Racing PRO #1
class: GT1-Pro
car: FZR
number: 14
drivers:
- {_coca-cola_, Sami Anttonen, Finland}
- {MonkeyHead, Axel Falck, Finland}
- {Checkout, Markus Gunzelmann, Germany}

***

teamName: CoRe Racing PRO #2
class: GT1-Pro
car: XRR
number: 09
drivers:
- {Emyn, Valtteri Pitkänen, Finland}
- {kiste, Christian Kistner, Germany}

***

teamName: CoRe Racing AM
class: GT1-Am
car: FZR
number: 61
drivers:
- {DeadWolfBones, Ben Keough, USA}
- {cali (ger), Carl Winkler, Germany}
- {FireMike15, Maik Paluch, Germany}

Ended up not getting many good shots from the US Grand Prix, but I did get these:

Quote from Gougoodthing :

Didn't they ban cameras??

Originally, but they went back on it when people freaked out.

D700 + Sigma 100-300/4:

Sup dudes?

Long time no see, Eric.

Senna did nothing wrong there. He was totally in control and made the apex. Vettel just had no idea he was there.

Yeah, I think he's fine.

Quote from Senninha25 :

Well that was a terrible way to end the season.

You kidding? That was a great race, and Vettel (like him or not) is a great driver and champion. I would have preferred Alonso, but in the end they both did a great job. People get way too wrapped up in the fanboy game sometimes.

At least on the Speed broadcast they said Whiting looked at it exhaustively and found no evidence. There's one view that shows a yellow light, but they said it's a "track condition" light and not a yellow flag light.

They disproved the passing under yellow thing.

Welp, nice finale, great season.

Wow.