He might mean that instead of editing the actual wireframe the way Bespoke did, it seems to change the rim appearance with a 2D texture. I doubt that's all there is to it, since that wouldn't make sense, but I haven't looked into it and if he hasn't either that'd be the reason he's confused.
Add F9 thru F12 to button mapping
Like it says on the tin.
I've seen forums that warn you, before submitting post, that the thread is X months old, etc.
I'd miss the FZR, but not the FZ5. The '5 would look better if it were a little more compact length-wise.
The XRR is another one I find looks as good as any real racer.
The XRR is another one I find looks as good as any real racer.
Forum tags on Leagues/Events
This way players can quickly sort what they're looking for out of the whole list. A correspondingly clear & simple convention could be used: 3 letter car and car class tags, along with "all" and some 3 letter initialism for "random" or "various" or whatever.
Additional tags could be for start/end dates, e.g. a league starting now and ending next may could be tagged: oct-may, or 10oct-11may. If not already in the event's thread title.
If such a mechanism was added (requiring new event/league postings to have these tags; the car ones at least), I'd volunteer to help adding them to present postings that don't have em yet.
Additional tags could be for start/end dates, e.g. a league starting now and ending next may could be tagged: oct-may, or 10oct-11may. If not already in the event's thread title.
If such a mechanism was added (requiring new event/league postings to have these tags; the car ones at least), I'd volunteer to help adding them to present postings that don't have em yet.
So did this league already happen, is it still WIP, or is it dead?
Same story here.
Except it's really disappointing to see so few servers. And of those servers that are active, something like 1/3 of them are cruise/drift, while the actual race servers are mostly FMB/XRG class servers. In the last 2-3 days I saw 1 LRF server, and it had just 3 players on at its most. Even the old Aston III GTR combo was on only a couple of servers, and they weren't packed anywhere near like they used to be a few years ago.
Except it's really disappointing to see so few servers. And of those servers that are active, something like 1/3 of them are cruise/drift, while the actual race servers are mostly FMB/XRG class servers. In the last 2-3 days I saw 1 LRF server, and it had just 3 players on at its most. Even the old Aston III GTR combo was on only a couple of servers, and they weren't packed anywhere near like they used to be a few years ago.
You might get close enough using Tweak. No guarantee the closest sound would be an inline 6 turbo.
Yep, Orion's is nice. Except from the side. Overall the ERA's a nicer bodywork. That's why I said it made for a better bodywork basis for an RAC GTR.
I know that tires are supposed to be at their best when slightly sliding, and I know that you go fastest in LFS by sliding more than you would in reality, but I've never seen it shown that LFS' amount of excessive slip is so dramatically larger than reality as to look ridiculous.. IIRC LFS only gives you a slight amount of extra slip compared to reality.
In my experience it's barely noticeable if you're watching all the cars do it from track side perspective. If you're focused (chase camera) on one player doing it as I do it (so again this is just my experience but I'm fairly sure it's accurate) you'll see a slight sideways angle.. Never enough to qualify as drifting. Excluding special case of very low speed corners.
No, I can't describe it by "I'm letting the rear go" at any point in the corner. The rear is only barely sliding more than the front. It's all very controlled.. I can't do it randomly.
In my experience the XRT and XRR in particular lend themselves to this pretty well. It's a very slight angle, very carefully modulated. I don't think you can really compare it to rallying slides.
The above video with Pearcy sliding around XFGs in his XRT is a special case: it's a low speed corner, his car is different from those he's passing, and on top of that there's no way to tell (unless you know that corner and the cars involved like the back of your hand) whether the XFGs were as fast as they could've been.
That angle of attack's more than the kind I described. Sorry I don't have any replays (nor any controller to go make some).
The next argument is whether this small slip is realistic in LFS.. Whether that little area just beyond grip and just before full slide, where grip is optimal, is the same in LFS as in reality. There's a few very detailed threads covering this. IIRC in this Gen.Disc. sub-forum.
The quickest answer to your questions is to go try it out yourself. The XRT with some good setups (keep in mind some WR setups are "special" though) is probably the best simplest test on street tires. The XRR is probably the best road car on race tires, and I don't know what to recommend for single seaters. And then there's new tire physics coming up, which pretty much everyone has agreed for a long time now that there's flaws in the tire model, IIRC including this slip behavior in particular.
Last edited by Breizh, .
You probably want to add some replay footage to unequivocally make your point. i.e. just how much sliding you're talking about. In my experience (I usually peak around 1 second off WRs, though I've never played with anything but gamepads) the optimal amount of slip is minor, not enough to call it rally style (though this could just be your vernacular). What's tricky (and what might be unrealistic) is how slippery (although easy enough to recover; that too might be unrealistic (e.g. how softly tires hook back up)) things get in that optimum range of slip.
How I see it: You can't drive an LX8 anywhere near full potential with a mouse or keyboard. If that's the criteria for adding it to public versions of LFS, I don't think it passes.
But I don't think that's what the criteria should be. If people are having fun with it, it should be in. The subtle factor IMO is that unless the new tire physics really have made it so much more accessible, the LX8 just won't be anything but a weird machine that only aliens can reliably do anything with. It seems like most people won't get the LX8 beyond what they could get from the LX6 (i.e. they'd end up with the same laptimes walking on eggs around corners with the LX8 and then powering down straights, as they would struggling to properly push the LX6 at 7-8/10ths around corners). The sticking point IMO is that regardless what I or others think, that seems to be below Scavier's standards.
But I don't think that's what the criteria should be. If people are having fun with it, it should be in. The subtle factor IMO is that unless the new tire physics really have made it so much more accessible, the LX8 just won't be anything but a weird machine that only aliens can reliably do anything with. It seems like most people won't get the LX8 beyond what they could get from the LX6 (i.e. they'd end up with the same laptimes walking on eggs around corners with the LX8 and then powering down straights, as they would struggling to properly push the LX6 at 7-8/10ths around corners). The sticking point IMO is that regardless what I or others think, that seems to be below Scavier's standards.
I don't think you can drive an LX4/6, never mind LX8, over about 4 or 5/10ths with a keyboard. Unless you neuter it with a bunch of driving aids.
I'm not convinced or arguing either way, I'm asking what your specific ideas are. What the working design, the specific permutation would be, not just variable ranges.
The XRR/FXR do have effectively identical engines, but FZR/XRR aren't really similar RWD. One's RR, the other's FR; one's a small peaky turbo, the other's a relatively big NA engine. In practice they're different animals (you don't drive the XRR and FZR the same way) because of those differences. The GTRs' suspension type are the same: double wishbone all around. The difference between XRR and FXR is the drivetrain.
What I'm curious of is how, specifically, you could make the difference between XRR and RBR that pronounced. If they've got the same drivetrain and engine layout, what's left that can change its character so much?
Engine-wise? Other than the same i4T config but bored out to larger displacement, it'd have to be a different configuration from the road version and would kill the kind of homologation/GTR relation between road and GTR versions as we've got now. That latter's much more of a change in character from the road version than you get in going from road to GTR suspension.
Type of 4WD? The FXR and RB4 both have a choice of all possible diffs on either end and a choice between viscous and open at the center. I don't know what drive configuration you could give the RBR that would be significantly different from the FXR. Some kind of more limited F/R split (e.g. max 33% front bias) but more adaptive config (e.g. some electronic scheme like the Sirocco's electronic stability) along with better suspension? Kind of like the Nissan GTR and Audi Quattro set themselves apart from other 4WD cars.
I think I remember Scawen saying they would add some new suspension types, but I don't recall what the type(s) was.
An easier GTR addition would be a Raceabout GTR (mid engined config by itself is enough to make it worthwhile, just as it was for the XRR/FXR whose only difference is drivetrain), though personally I'd take both it and an RBR if the latter could be made different enough from the FXR. Another suggestion that's common enough is to make the RBR a rally model, though again I don't see why you couldn't have both racing versions provided the RBR's not an FXR clone.
edit- the electric raceabout would make a great bodywork basis for an RAC-GTR:
http://www.raceabout.fi/era/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3v3aThfFA
The XRR/FXR do have effectively identical engines, but FZR/XRR aren't really similar RWD. One's RR, the other's FR; one's a small peaky turbo, the other's a relatively big NA engine. In practice they're different animals (you don't drive the XRR and FZR the same way) because of those differences. The GTRs' suspension type are the same: double wishbone all around. The difference between XRR and FXR is the drivetrain.
What I'm curious of is how, specifically, you could make the difference between XRR and RBR that pronounced. If they've got the same drivetrain and engine layout, what's left that can change its character so much?
Engine-wise? Other than the same i4T config but bored out to larger displacement, it'd have to be a different configuration from the road version and would kill the kind of homologation/GTR relation between road and GTR versions as we've got now. That latter's much more of a change in character from the road version than you get in going from road to GTR suspension.
Type of 4WD? The FXR and RB4 both have a choice of all possible diffs on either end and a choice between viscous and open at the center. I don't know what drive configuration you could give the RBR that would be significantly different from the FXR. Some kind of more limited F/R split (e.g. max 33% front bias) but more adaptive config (e.g. some electronic scheme like the Sirocco's electronic stability) along with better suspension? Kind of like the Nissan GTR and Audi Quattro set themselves apart from other 4WD cars.
I think I remember Scawen saying they would add some new suspension types, but I don't recall what the type(s) was.
An easier GTR addition would be a Raceabout GTR (mid engined config by itself is enough to make it worthwhile, just as it was for the XRR/FXR whose only difference is drivetrain), though personally I'd take both it and an RBR if the latter could be made different enough from the FXR. Another suggestion that's common enough is to make the RBR a rally model, though again I don't see why you couldn't have both racing versions provided the RBR's not an FXR clone.
edit- the electric raceabout would make a great bodywork basis for an RAC-GTR:
http://www.raceabout.fi/era/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3v3aThfFA
Last edited by Breizh, .
How would you design the RB4 GTR to not be redundant with the FXR?
I haven't looked in a long while, but IIRC there are endurance racing leagues. At least this one:
http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=41
http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=41
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG