The online racing simulator
TEST PATCH 0.6H2 (now H11)
(391 posts, closed, started )
Little offtopic though, but if we are talking about FPS optimizations and so, there is a little freeze every time when I switch to the Game page in the Settings. If I visited the Game page in the current session already and I open it up again, there is no freeze (probably because it's cached already).
This bug is an old one (as long as I know it) and not introduced with the recent (test) patches.
Maybe this one is easy to fix? Smile

By the way, the FPS increase is awesome and will probably help those with less powerful PCs. Great job! Smile
Scawen, whoever is doing your Portuguese translations I can assure you he/she wasn't top of the Portuguese language class.
Quote :"Portuguese" maintained by: KiDCoDEa

For some reason the profile of this KiDCoDEa is "no longer welcome" at forums. So it's 2 minus points for him,I guess. Shrug
impressive improvement, thank you. I have a sound problem in shift mode + u (in H4 and H5), car sound stopped working when the car is not visible on camera, only makes sound capture of visible cars. here's a picture and replay.
sometimes I faced a slight lag screen and sound lag in all situations with good FPS. I tested some new configurations and these are the best for me:
Limit frame rate - 60fps
sleep every frame - no
maximum buffered frames - 0

now i have a higher FPS, but more unstable.I using Limit frame rate at 60fps to play all tracks without having to restart LFS, for configuration for each track to take effect.

sorry my weird english
Attached images
sem som1.jpg
Attached files
sem som.mpr - 1.4 MB - 98 views
Upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and first time I started LFS on Win 10 it crashed.

Quote :Unhandled exception at 0x085DD54E in LFS H5.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x0E06000C.

Using same LFS version 0.6H5 on Windows 10 FPS seems to be noticeable lower. I wasn't able to come up with exact numbers because my LFS crashes everytime I end benchmark. Guess that is more of a FRAPS + Win 10 issue.
Quote from DANIEL-CRO :Upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 and first time I started LFS on Win 10 it crashed.

Quote :Unhandled exception at 0x085DD54E in LFS H5.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x0E06000C.

Using same LFS version 0.6H5 on Windows 10 FPS seems to be noticeable lower. I wasn't able to come up with exact numbers because my LFS crashes everytime I end benchmark. Guess that is more of a FRAPS + Win 10 issue.

you can try measure the fps with msi afterburner, i dont get it why ppl still use fraps
I have some temperature issues after applying the new patch. My laptop is normally running on pretty high temps, but this is extreme. My GPU usually goes up to 75-80°C, but with new patch I got a max temperature of 127.5°C which concerns me a bit. I will try the old patch later and report back with the max temp.

Also, the FPS increases as everyone says, but after alt-tabbing it drops by half (from 70 to 30-35). I know temperature might cause that too, but if I restart LFS with the temps still high, FPS goes back to 70 and LFS Lazy reports GPU usage of 50% (not matter the FPS), while I had around 90% on old patch (again no matter the FPS).

E: Just noticed that when I alt tab to desktop my GPU usage goes up to 100% and when I switch back to LFS, Lazy confirms the usage. Then it quickly drops back to 50% and stays there.

E2: Tested the old patch. Normal FPS (around 60), normal GPU usage (80-90%, on desktop 0%), alt tabbing doesn't affect FPS, normal temps.
Quote from Flame CZE :I think it would be helpful to add these explanations to the LFSManual Options page, too.

To be honest, I think a native implementation would be more useful. LFS would really benefit from having more of those little ? icons/explanations on all the technical graphics settings.

The new frame timing display is nice though, I'm just not certain how to exactly read it. Big grin
Quote from Matrixi :
Quote from Flame CZE :I think it would be helpful to add these explanations to the LFSManual Options page, too.

To be honest, I think a native implementation would be more useful. LFS would really benefit from having more of those little ? icons/explanations on all the technical graphics settings.

Good point, I thought about that too actually.
Quote from Matrixi :To be honest, I think a native implementation would be more useful. LFS would really benefit from having more of those little ? icons/explanations on all the technical graphics settings.

I agree, more question marks in-game would be great, especially for new users - but adding more question marks needs more translation work as every help screen needs to be translated and some languages still have periodically inactive translators. Confused
Quote from Matrixi :The new frame timing display is nice though, I'm just not certain how to exactly read it. Big grin

Same ^^
Quote from MandulAA :
I agree, more question marks in-game would be great, especially for new users - but adding more question marks needs more translation work as every help screen needs to be translated and some languages still have periodically inactive translators. Confused

It would still be better to atleast have them in english, atleast the new explanation lines would get eventually translated. Once S3 is released, I'm guessing many of the old translators will become more active again.

Options in the Misc menu definitely need a bit more explanation about what the frame/sleep settings do, users who don't bother going on Google or Wikipedia to look them up propably don't have the slightest clue what they're toggling.

Edit: Oh yeah, I think the v-sync toggle could be universal for both fullscreen and windowed mode, if it's possible to implement? Atleast now it's impossible to have v-sync on when running in a window. Also while on the subject of windows, I don't think LFS does borderless windowed fullscreen natively yet?
Quote from matijapkc :
E: Just noticed that when I alt tab to desktop my GPU usage goes up to 100% and when I switch back to LFS, Lazy confirms the usage. Then it quickly drops back to 50% and stays there.

GPU load doesn't mean anything if the GPU core clock speed is unknown. I can have 90% occupancy on 135 Mhz or 20% @666 Mhz..

If you alt tab your driver can decide to use a different power profile. Use GPU-Z to get better information about what your GPU is doing. It sounds like your using a laptop by the way... You need to clean the ventilation system and/or even replace heat transfer paste. Most people think they can run a laptop for over six months without doing any maintenance but it doesn't work like that.

I noticed that the new patch uses more CPU power. Scawen did you sneaked in multi thread usage? Wink ... Because I see CPU utilization going across the 12% limit when I -not- limit my FPS (12% on i7 8 threads. 100% divided by 8 => 12%). More CPU utilization means more heat.. Most laptops share the same cooling system for GPU and CPU.

Overall it's an amazing patch. I would recommend to make it official soon if issues are being ironed out.
Quote from matijapkc :I have some temperature issues after applying the new patch. My laptop is normally running on pretty high temps, but this is extreme. My GPU usually goes up to 75-80°C, but with new patch I got a max temperature of 127.5°C which concerns me a bit. I will try the old patch later and report back with the max temp.

New optimizations lifted some of the CPU bottleneck so your GPU can now spend more time rendering frames. That's why it's getting hotter. Do what Dave said and fix your heatsink before the GPU burns a hole through your computer.

I noticed a pretty nice FPS increase even under WINE, especially at places where the framerate used to drop to low 30's.
Quote from cargame.nl :GPU load doesn't mean anything if the GPU core clock speed is unknown. I can have 90% occupancy on 135 Mhz or 20% @666 Mhz..

If you alt tab your driver can decide to use a different power profile. Use GPU-Z to get better information about what your GPU is doing. It sounds like your using a laptop by the way... You need to clean the ventilation system and/or even replace heat transfer paste. Most people think they can run a laptop for over six months without doing any maintenance but it doesn't work like that.

I noticed that the new patch uses more CPU power. Scawen did you sneaked in multi thread usage? Wink ... Because I see CPU utilization going across the 12% limit when I -not- limit my FPS (12% on i7 8 threads. 100% divided by 8 => 12%). More CPU utilization means more heat.. Most laptops share the same cooling system for GPU and CPU.

Overall it's an amazing patch. I would recommend to make it official soon if issues are being ironed out.

Quote from MadCatX :New optimizations lifted some of the CPU bottleneck so your GPU can now spend more time rendering frames. That's why it's getting hotter. Do what Dave said and fix your heatsink before the GPU burns a hole through your computer.

I noticed a pretty nice FPS increase even under WINE, especially at places where the framerate used to drop to low 30's.

I have cleaned my laptop 6 times during the 2 years I own it. It is completely dust free, it's just the way HP works. The temperatures were like that even when it was brand new and HP considers it a normal thing since the laptop doesn't have any passive cooling, only one small fan.

I have tracked the GPU clock, and it had been 300MHz with the new patch and >600MHz with old patch. It just doesn't want to turn up the clock with the new patch. Also, driver using different profiles? Why the hell would my driver want to use 100% GPU on desktop and 50% GPU in-game? Also, CPU temperature did not rise at all.
I have opened thousands of laptops in my life and yours https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1782711#post1782711 doesn't differ in setup from most cooling setups found in laptops. Two heat sinks mounted on both heat generating locations, some copper heat transfer shafts to a central radiator where air is blown through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoSrAPF_8fo . What most people do is when they clean a laptop is putting a vacuum cleaner on the outside of this radiator and think this is enough. It is not, in some cases the complete laptop needs to be disassembled to get the flocks of dust out of the radiator blades. On top of that some manufacturers even dare to use heat transfer stickers instead of paste between the heat sinks and the cores or use some crappy heat transfer paste compound. Best to replace this with some quality heat transfer paste. When something comes out of the factory it doesn't imply that it was properly put together.

If this all doesn't help you need to start to wonder if you've bought the right equipment. If the new patch is using a GPU core clock of 300 Mhz then it actually is amazing because a lower GPU clock means less produced heat.

I think it's a great thing about this patch anyway, more balanced @using the GPU and with FPS limiting GPU power consumption can get easily be controlled. But, with every kind of "tuning" you need to know exactly what is happening.
Quote from cargame.nl :some copper heat transfer shafts

Those are actually heat pipes Dave - the copper is all but irrelevant.

@matijapkc: I'm surprised your GPU is still alive, if that temperature (127.5°C) was accurate. I thought that would kill pretty much anything. I would therefore suspect a bogus temperature display.

I haven't had a chance to test the new patch myself, but it does seem pretty clear that it puts more load on the GPU. I still believe that this isn't in any way a concern for LFS though: all PC kit (CPU, GPU, whatever) should be self-protecting - e.g. throttle back when over-heating occurs.
Quote from cargame.nl :Blah blah blah

I see you are considering me retarded so we have nothing to talk about.

Quote from Neilser :@matijapkc: I'm surprised your GPU is still alive, if that temperature (127.5°C) was accurate. I thought that would kill pretty much anything. I would therefore suspect a bogus temperature display.

I haven't had a chance to test the new patch myself, but it does seem pretty clear that it puts more load on the GPU. I still believe that this isn't in any way a concern for LFS though: all PC kit (CPU, GPU, whatever) should be self-protecting - e.g. throttle back when over-heating occurs.

It was not staying on 127 for a long amount of time, I opened LFS and ~5 mins later opened the HW Monitor, because LFS was acting weird. I was checking temps every 2, 3 minutes, and when I saw the 127° it was listed as "Max achieved temp" and the current value was a bit over 80°. I actually think it may have reached that temp while I was on desktop (read my first post on this page for explanation). I am not sure though. It has never went over 80° in any other game so this is an almost 50° temp difference. Call me whatever you want, but I don't think this issue is the fault of my laptop/driver.
Quote from matijapkc :I see you are considering me retarded so we have nothing to talk about.

No idea.. Other people always make the assumptions and impressions. I just give a general description, I don't care what people think of it, maybe you are an exception and IT nerd, thats fine but you didn't describe yourself like that.. Especially when you talk about half core frequency and saying you get more heat. That conflicts with each other. Doesn't directly say 'you are retarded'.. Thats what you make out of it Wink

Been few months in Croatia now, funny mentality here.
I have gotten ludicrous amounts of FPS with H5. +50% higher! Laptop can now finally "relax" when I v-sync the excess FPS away Thumbs up

No idea what you have tap into but patent that stuff Big grin
Quote from cargame.nl :If the new patch is using a GPU core clock of 300 Mhz then it actually is amazing because a lower GPU clock means less produced heat.

CMOS logic at idle (i.e. minimal switching, not doing work) does not generate nearly as much heat as it does at full load (i.e. lots of switching, lots of work). It seems pretty clear there's thermal throttling going on, and it's well within the realm of possibility that an IC generates far more heat at 300MHz at full load than it does at 600MHz close to idle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMOS#Power:_switching_and_leakage
In extension to what I wrote earlier:

Windows 10 - DirectX 12:

- VSync ON : Fullscreen : Minimised : ~40% CPU
- VSync OFF : Fullscreen : Minimised : ~30% CPU
- VSync ON : Windowed : Minimised : <0.2% CPU
- VSync OFF : Windowed : Minimised : <0.2% CPU

Quote from mbutcher :Everything seems to be fine and dandy using 0 buffers with VSync. It gets a bit juddery when I change it to 1 or 2.

On my AMD A10-5700 (Quad Core), LFS is using more CPU when it's minimised than it is whilst active:

WE1X - 2 Cars on track
- Minimised: ~30%-40% CPU (nearly 2 cores worth)
- In-game: ~21% CPU (normal, what I usually have and would expect)

I used to get <10% CPU usage from LFS whilst minimised before H5.

I think it uses the same DirectX 9 libraries but how can you have fullscreen and minimized at the same time?

Maybe you mean if you go from fullscreen mode to minimized... Hhmm..

*Ya... I have similar characteristics... (Intel)
Quote from cargame.nl :I think it uses the same DirectX 9 libraries but how can you have fullscreen and minimized at the same time?

Maybe you mean if you go from fullscreen mode to minimized... Hhmm..

*Ya... I have similar characteristics... (Intel)

Yup, go from fullscreen to minimised and from windowed to minimised.
Since H4 there seems to be a bug – if I add some AI drivers to an offline race and I have "Driver OFF wheel OFF" in view settings, the virtual dashboard (e.g. on FO8) is hidden in my view, but not when I view the AI's.
Attached images
H4_AI.jpg
H4_player.jpg
I just got this nasty bug aswell. It happened on normal racing server and costed me a league race in the end.

Seems to me this happens whenever you have any other car in your view.

UPD and you have to be close to another car to get the bug
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TEST PATCH 0.6H2 (now H11)
(391 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG