The online racing simulator
TEST PATCH 0.6H2 (now H11)
(391 posts, closed, started )
Quote from matze54564 :
Quote from dawesdust_12 :
Without vsync, you're always getting the newest frame possible because there's a surplus of frames, without any having to wait.

Thats not true, because your monitor have a refresh rate of maybe 70 Hz or 60 Hz (50 Hz are only for Freaks using german tv on pc) and and when you are limiting the frame rate to 100 Hz, your monitor won´t show you 30 frames. 1 skipped frame is like 10 ms delay.

That's not how it works. Without VSync and framerate that is not an integer fraction or multiple of the screen's refresh rate you get tearing - one part of the screen displays Nth frame while the other part of the screen shows N+1th frame. This is annoying to look at but it doesn't introduce any delays.
There is a good case for setting the frame rate to 100 Hz. This way, there is a read from the steering wheel for every physics calculation. Some people like higher frame rates for their own reasons. Anyway, it's interesting to see in the new moving bar chart which works well.

I had hoped to release test patch H5 this weekend but that issue with the transparent autocross objects not being visible until the optimise button is clicked has taken longer than expected. Rather than a quick fix I am working on a worthwhile improvement.
Sounds good, no problem
I've noticed that my skins are visibly more smudged in newer patches, compared to pre-new Westhill releases. I've always had all the mip biases set to 0.0, to smoothen the background. Any chance to fix those skin definition problems (check the front of the roof area).
Attached images
0.6e.jpg
0.6h.jpg
settings 0.6e.jpg
settings 0.6h.jpg
Quote from Ziomek21 :I've noticed that my skins are visibly more smudged in newer patches, compared to pre-new Westhill releases. I've always had all the mip biases set to 0.0, to smoothen the background. Any chance to fix those skin definition problems (check the front of the roof area).

A bit off-topic and already known bug. Use NVIDA Control Panel or AMD Catalyst Control Center to force anisotropic filtering. Wink

@Scawen : Nice, that's why we love you, no "quick fix that will make it work but create 3 other bugs", keep it up ! Thumbs up
Quickly tested and I'm just amazed! Big grin

Performance gain is really really huge. Tested with replay from lfsbench, 0.6H4 gives me 110 FPS, and new version 0.6H5 156 FPS. LFS feels much more fluid.
Hmm on H5 I can't join many servers... (like MRc's) :/
indeed, fps growth is very nice !!!
I still get the weird behaviour on some points when using v-sync ... so I think I will avoid now Big grin
GJ Sir Wink
I have tested on Linux with Wine and an old mobile Radeon GPU using open source drivers which have poor performance. In the worst places on Westhill from the cockpit view the framerate went up by around 40 % in 0.6H5 when compared to 0.6H (in 0.6H4 it was maybe 15 % better then 0.6H). Very impressive! Thumbs up Smile
Quote from Scawen :Fixes:

Anisotropic filtering did not work on car textures (including skin)

Phew...
The FPS improvement is awesome, almost twice as much at some places now Smile

By the way, I'm having some screen tearing even with a 60 FPS limit on a 60 Hz monitor, is that normal? Also, in which situations is it better to have Sleep every frame option on/off?
Quote from R@fiXII :Hmm on H5 I can't join many servers... (like MRc's) :/

Joining servers should not be affected, maybe a coincidental internet glitch at your end?

Quote from Flame CZE :The FPS improvement is awesome, almost twice as much at some places now Smile

By the way, I'm having some screen tearing even with a 60 FPS limit on a 60 Hz monitor, is that normal? Also, in which situations is it better to have Sleep every frame option on/off?

Yes, there will be tearing at 60 FPS because the frame update is not synced with the screen. The only way to avoid tearing is vertical sync, but if you do use vertical sync, don't use buffered frames as they will cause lag. It seems to me that 100 Hz is the best limit, because there is one physics update per frame.

Sleep every frame probably isn't needed except for people using unlimited frame rate and maybe things like having a single core CPU. Basically I don't think it is needed unless you get problems like Windows forgetting to pass messages, update internet, controllers etc... and this may not happen at all with modern OS or dual core CPU.

Has anyone tried the frame info graph? You can switch it on in Misc Options and if you click the car icon you can see it in game.
Just did a rough testing with paused MP replay (32 cars grid viewing from the cockpit of the last car).

FPS increased like by 1.5! (90 instead of 60). Epic win here Thumbs up

The graph works well. I get something in the Wait field only sometimes (and I can't reproduce this), or when VSync is enabled. What does it show exactly? Waiting for GPU?
Quote from Scawen :
Has anyone tried the frame info graph? You can switch it on in Misc Options and if you click the car icon you can see it in game.

Phys in graph isn't exactly just car physics as far as I figured, but it includes time to handle interface and stuff.
While messing with that graph I noticed that everytime I activate LFS window I get stutter almost a second long. What I mean is your LFS is on half on screen and on other half you have other program which is active, when click on LFS to activate it that stutter happen. Anything possible to do with it?

Now that sleep option is much more simple one other thing came to my mind Razz
Sound lag, how many people actually understand what does it do and why it is needed? Probably less than 1% I'd say Tongue
My explanation in short... Sound isn't constantly produced, but programmer has to provide sound that will be played between this and next frame. Sound lag is infact a value which says how far to buffer sound. So if FPS is 100 you'll have to use minimum Sound lag of 0.01s. Value less than that will result in sound stutter. Less lag is always better as log as there is no stutter. Smile
Of course as it was the case with Sleep I doubt many people understand its meaning. Well, to get sound stutter with the minimum setting of 0.05s your LFS have to run at less than 20 FPS which is pretty unplayable. What I've got on mind is a simple system that would dynamically adjust that setting based on your FPS and perhaps totally hide it from user.
As most of us are running pretty high FPS nowadays I'd suggest using minimum Sound lag even lower than 0.05s. Difference between 0.05 and 0.10 is easily noticeable for me.
Hello, just gave H5 a quick test and noticed this graphics glitch that i never had before, look at the signs:

https://youtu.be/8hBH669WlXQ

Sorry for the low quality video but my pc is not that powerful, while playing it's even more noticeable.

Anyone else having it? I currently have no time to test all the other tracks on both new and old versions, so i want just to report this for now :P.

Sorry for my english
Quote from Artenese91 :Hello, just gave H5 a quick test and noticed this graphics glitch that i never had before, look at the signs:

https://youtu.be/8hBH669WlXQ

Sorry for the low quality video but my pc is not that powerful, while playing it's even more noticeable.

Anyone else having it? I currently have no time to test all the other tracks on both new and old versions, so i want just to report this for now :P.

Sorry for my english

Do you have Z-buffer depth set to 24? (Options - Graphics)
Everything seems to be fine and dandy using 0 buffers with VSync. It gets a bit juddery when I change it to 1 or 2.

On my AMD A10-5700 (Quad Core), LFS is using more CPU when it's minimised than it is whilst active:

WE1X - 2 Cars on track
- Minimised: ~30%-40% CPU (nearly 2 cores worth)
- In-game: ~21% CPU (normal, what I usually have and would expect)

I used to get <10% CPU usage from LFS whilst minimised before H5.
Quote from Flame CZE :
Quote from Artenese91 :

Do you have Z-buffer depth set to 24? (Options - Graphics)

Wops my bad, /facepalm

Tried Z-buffer depth set to 24 and there is no glitch anymore ^^, i previously had 16...don't get why i've never seen that before but thanks for the advice.

By the way, these updates are finally letting me play Westhill with much more stable FPS, so thanks alot!
I can press that graph overlay buttons when I drive with mouse, while mouse pointer is hidden. So I can accidentally close it while driving with mouse Smile

Is it bug or feature?
Nice performance boost thank you very much!Thumbs up

And i like the graph it is really helpful when adjusting graphics on an old HW to find compromise between detail and performance.

However i did find a "funny" texture missing error once at WE1X see attached.

I found it both in H and H5. i did try to reproduce in a second run without luck, but it is happening in the attached replay (time 2.51). I am not sure if this is a know bug i just wanted to report it.
Attached images
WETexturemissing.jpg
Attached files
hetner_WE1X_XRT_2.spr - 181.6 KB - 89 views
The FPS has increased now even when cars are around, Thanks for the great update and keep up the good work!

€: Even the computer fans speed decreased now when running LFS!!!
So what is a good combination?

i was using LFS frameratelock to 100 and tripple buffer forcing it with RadeonPro

because there a new few options about the vsync, sleep time, etc etc
can we have a explanation what each options do in LFS and what are the good point and the bad points?
I wouldn't advise triple buffering.

I think you can use a frame rate limit if you like or vertical sync if you like, but in any case, do not allow more buffered frames than you need. They will add lag if you add more than the number that increases your frame rate. I guess for most people, 1 buffered frame should be the best. Old LFS had the equivalent of 0 buffered frames. It's still possible that 0 buffered frames is best, to reduce input lag, if you are using vertical sync and you never drop below your monitor refresh rate.

With buffered frames, more is not better! Just enough to achieve your desired frame rate and no more!

EDIT: I know there are a few points to answer in the posts above, and I will do so. Thanks for the feedback.
I think it would be helpful to add these explanations to the LFSManual Options page, too.
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TEST PATCH 0.6H2 (now H11)
(391 posts, closed, started )
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