Ah okay, thanks for clarifying.
Ah okay, thanks for clarifying.
Thanks for your detailled answer (and finally realtime shadows and reflections
).If you want to optimise more your game, you can also try Occulsion Culling.
But I guess that people will have to upgrade to play LFS (supporting 2004 hardware can be quite frustrating), that's not a bad thing, it will make LFS really move forward.
Could be it possible to fix this kerb? Or is it done on purpose?
http://snag.gy/hNPxE.jpg
The tyre usually gets stuck there and the car turns 180º
http://snag.gy/hNPxE.jpg
The tyre usually gets stuck there and the car turns 180º
You can steal a possible solution from me. Or build something similar.
However, not sure if this works 100%. It seems not, during testing yesterday. But I think it already is an improvement. Although it doesn't look that great.
You have to do something to make racing safer.
However, not sure if this works 100%. It seems not, during testing yesterday. But I think it already is an improvement. Although it doesn't look that great.
You have to do something to make racing safer.
That corner is a killer for FBM.
Well, I´ve tried Westhill carting and I noticed that my FPS has dropped from 75(V-sync on 75Hz monitor) to 65. My theory about people complaining about the FPS drop on Westhill is caused by very old rendering engine that is not using features of modern GPU´s. Framedrops are not a bug... as Scaven stated.
<unacceptable suggestion>This should be a priority right after new tyres, Scirroco, Rockingham and overall graphic refresh of all tracks and cars. Maybe it is time to wait for DX 12 and to use it´s features that would be benefical. We would be ok with DX 12 for next 15 years. With DX9 as a fallback</>
<unacceptable suggestion>This should be a priority right after new tyres, Scirroco, Rockingham and overall graphic refresh of all tracks and cars. Maybe it is time to wait for DX 12 and to use it´s features that would be benefical. We would be ok with DX 12 for next 15 years. With DX9 as a fallback</>
DX9 isn't old and DX12 will not magicaly make Westhill at 200 FPS for everyone.
Not DX12 itself but some of its features if well implemented 
. But it is well possible that lfs is not even using all possible features of DX9, so that may be another viable option
. But it is well possible that lfs is not even using all possible features of DX9, so that may be another viable optionWhich features do you think would magically boost the FPS? I think multi-threading would give a lot more FPS actually.
A switch to D3D12 or Vulkan actually could boost performance if the engine were coded properly. D3D12 and Vulkan use new approaches in the GPU API design which give programmer more direct control over the GPU. This allows for a more efficient use of GPU's resources and reduces the API overhead. AFAIK the API overhead was complained about a lot with previous D3D versions. The downside is that it requires more in-depth knowledge of how the GPU works inside if one wants to use its full potential.
On the other hand LFS probably doesn't stress the GPU enough to benefit from this.
Considering some posts i wouldn't go into the direction of a bug, cpu and graphic limits (only).
If we get an area of many elements and big maybe also memory consuming textures this could be a memory / swap problem. Did you monitor memory consument in those areas?
DX9 was *replaced* with a major rewrite about 8.5 years ago. The original DX9 is over 13 years old and DX9c is 11.
So yes, it is indeed old in the context of computer software/hardware.
But you're correct that simply moving to DX12 probably won't magically make LFS run significantly faster. Just like moving LFS from 8 to 9 alone made no difference.
However, afaik LFS is hardly using what even DX9 has to offer - it's just the Rift shaders, car rendering and maybe things like the Westhill fences?
Using shaders for things like shadow calculation/rendering, replacing the "alpha test" stuff etc. (which afaik was removed from DX10 because everyone used shaders for it anyway) would probably reduce CPU load and more efficiently use the GPU (even older ones designed for DX9).
We're probably at the stage where multi-threading - even relatively simple (he says) things like having a single thread each for physics, graphics calls, core game logic and texture loading/downloading/other disk access - could make a huge difference on CPU limited systems.
IIRC, Scawen said a while back he could make LFS multi-threaded in about three weeks' work. I'm not going to hold him to that timescale and things have no doubt changed since then, but that's something maybe worth looking into.
I wonder how much overdraw happens in those lower FPS areas, because if most of the things drawn (in terms of DX calls) are visible on the screen, there's not much to help you (except some heavy LOD for everything in distance).
If there are big chunks of polys clearly (in some algorithmic way) not visible, and overdrawn by something like huge hill or set of buildings, then maybe some occlusion culling would help ... as long as somebody doesn't put a ramp on track, which will elevate you enough to see all of the scenery again.
I think Scawen got into point, where only proper profiling could give him enough data to see if there's some serious bottleneck. Any theoretical talking may just lead into improving some code, which is maybe not as nice and efficient, but not really slowing down the whole thing a lot. But missing a real opportunities to make a difference.
I also wonder, people who think new westhill has low framerates, what are their framerates in other games with more complex graphics. Like AC running steady 100 fps all the time, and just LFS failing? Not that I think westhill is already at the level of AC, but as people are bashing LFS for looking old, you may expect at some point graphics engine update, which will make it much slower than it is now (hopefully also more pretty, although that doesn't matter that much to me, while I'm driving
).I personally hope for dynamic weather and daytime in LFS one day... And some heavy rain with water puddles on track with dynamic clouds in sky and shadows on track would be probably total overkill and also put fps down a lot...
And that multi threading can of worms... once it will be opened... yuck...
DX12 will reduce compatibility to Windows 10 computers with DX12 capable hardware, so I think you can dream of it for a while before LFS will "upgrade" to DX12.
Please look at all the game that are running with DirectX 9.0c and that are really complex and detailled, and also have good performances. LFS is way more optimised than thoses games.
API upgrade is unnessary at the moment. Maybe going to OpenGL can be an alternative, but the lack of build-in API for inputs for example can be a problem that add more time and complexity to the game port.
Actually, after some testing, Westhill FPS drop is caused by the fact that we use V-Sync and it can happens that the game drop slightly Under 60 FPS, so V-Sync will make the screen refresh at 30 FPS, which is horrible. Try to disable V-sync and add frame cap at 62 FPS, there is no more visual FPS drops.
@Ped7g : You are right about framerate variation between LFS and AC. And I too want to see dynamic (or at least static) weathers like rain, foggy, or even snow.
*S2 content*
That curb can be nasty indeed. I clipped it with my front tire a little in a UF1, and I just flew away.
Well, I haven't been looking to deep into what's going on on my machine, CPU (quad-core i5-3570K btw) and GPU-wise. I was just surprised about how huge the difference in FPS was going from 0.6F to 0.6H, not only in Westhill.
I average now like 30 FPS on WE1 with frames really jumping from 15-40 back and forth while going around the track (while still running LFS at 5760x1080 and full detail as before). Lowering all the details didn't really lead to significantly increased FPS (around 10-15 FPS maybe).
When switching to windowed mode I steadily gain ~100 FPS. So I went back to maxed out settings and run LFS having 100-160 FPS at WE1 in the largest possible window that spans over all three screens. While windowed mode is somewhat ugly, at least racing is possible again (regardless of graphic details).
Maybe also an option for other people who can live with these minor flaws. Or even a hint on what may be the problem here.
(kristipops1)
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by Victor : Better to report this privately
(Bigbob1993)
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Just a little area I found where the car sinks into grass. Greets PVL
according to the description Scawen we do not have significant improvements and in future FPS will drop further ..... this patch has no graphical improvements, just have files with a higher resolution, something that users already previously created(HD textures) without obtaining problems with fps. Scawen explain the problem, but without much will to fix in my opinion .. a quad-core i5-3570K is not exactly a bad computer and you got the same problem XD
It's of course interesting to test windowed and full screen mode with just one screen and check if it leads to the same experiences. Besides assuring yourself that you run a recent GPU driver and Windows XP or Windows 7. (If you are with 8 it's kinda hopeless).
At first I thought it was a problem WITH recent drivers since I updated to the latest drivers not too long ago. So I installed some older drivers again which didn't lead to any difference at all.
I will test whether I get the same results with one screen at 1920x1080 later this week.
I will test whether I get the same results with one screen at 1920x1080 later this week.
Well i have done it before u then, fps drops even more :)1920x1080
So you are saying that, in full screen mode on 3 screens you have a low frame rate, but with a large window extended to 3 screens, your frame rate is fine?
Which version of Windows are you using? On XP it was possible to go full screen on 3 monitors, but since XP, my understanding is that it isn't possible except by using special software (probably supplied by your graphics card manufacturer).
What? Have you seen the new Westhill?
It seems from what you are saying, you think it is just like any of our other tracks but with higher resolution textures. That is not the case at all. It has about 3 times the number of objects and far more geometric detail.
I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that you get high frame rate in a window. but not when in full screen mode?
I don't think we can do anything with this information unless you tell us what type of computer you are using. I'm not seeing a pattern here but it's hard to see a pattern or a connection without a bit more information.
At the moment it seems I am mainly seeing people saying things like:
"I have frame rate issues on Westhill"
"I have lower frame rate on all tracks"
"My computer has frame rate issues when in full screen"
"My laptop randomly goes into power saving mode"
"There is a lower frame rate when a lot of detail is visible"
"It is all good and running smoothly on my computer"
And this is why there isn't really much I can do at the moment. There is some time now for me to look into certain optimisations, and have a look and check that the hidden object removal has indeed been generated well and doesn't randomly draw the whole world at some points, in case there are any such bugs. But I don't think there are such bugs, really, because it works well and smoothly on most computers. I do understand that some computers are struggling with the higher level of geometric detail and high memory use due to the textures. That was always going to be the case if we went for higher level of detail.
Seems a bit like this:
Before 0.6H: "Why do you insist on making LFS run on a Casio wristwatch from the 1980s?"
After 0.6H: "OMG this is impossible, I don't have a Cray supercomputer!"
Quote of the year!!
Please Scawen, I really like my PC with Pentium III, don't improve graphics.
I'm also asking Rockstar Games to optimize and lower details of GTA V. I bought it and I can't run, so I keep writing them as long as they start listening to people who have computers from '90s and want to play 2015 game.
I'm also asking Rockstar Games to optimize and lower details of GTA V. I bought it and I can't run, so I keep writing them as long as they start listening to people who have computers from '90s and want to play 2015 game.
This thread is closed
New Westhill racing environment - 0.6H
(328 posts, closed, started )
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