Quote from NotAnIllusion :

'Full' as in manual button, or manual axis? Axis would be near-impossible, but button is trivial for me. Maybe it's because I've been using it for years but tbh I learnt it in a few hours. I use the right hand for the mouse (steering, shifting), and only 2 fingers on the left hand for everything else. Middle finger for throttle/brake/hbrake (A/Z/Q respectively) and the index finger for clutch (X). To shift up, hold A and tap x+LMB. To shift down, hold Z and tap x+RMB.

Full as in 'not the auto clutch'

Unless i've missunderstood, it sounds like you're changing up under full throttle. I didn't think that was possible with the latest patches, but then again i've never used the normal (full) clutch, so i wouldn't really know ?

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Manual button clutch (without a macro) is also trivial with a wheel like MOMO black. Shift with the stick, assign clutch to left/right paddle and use two of the red buttons in the middle for looking to the sides.

Yeah i agree, but my original post in this thread was to explain to someone that if for some reason a driver was unable to use a set of pedals then they'd have to map the throttle and brake to buttons on the wheel. So trying to perform all the gear change functions and the L+R views etc etc as well as throttle and brake, is just a bit too much when you've essentially only got 2 thumbs free. So therefore auto-clutch is a must have addition

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

The bottom line (once again) for me is that the option 'no auto-clutch allowed' is pointless in the OP's context (to make it more fair for 3-pedal users). As long as it is impossible to detect the difference between manual axis and manual button clutch, this option is a complete non-issue to work around if one feels like it, and thus isn't a very good solution. A better one would be to identify button/axis clutch separately so that they can be controlled either by the use of InSim or a server-side option.

To be honest with you i fairly ambivalent on the whole subject. I've not driven online for a long long time, so personally if "no clutch allowed" servers were permitted then it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. I can understand the argument for those who want to "keep it real", but if that's the case then there's literally no end to the criteria that could be enforced to "keep it real". Full motion simulators, full 360 degree surround'O'vision, pit crew, someone to hit you with a baseball bat everytime you crash....(i'm being silly, but you get the idea)

Ultimately i'd say leave it to the Devs, let them decide what's best for the game. They know where they want to take it and what the ultimate goal for the game is, so just let them get on with it. As the saying goes "In Scawen we trust, but all others have to play".

From the day I first played LFS, I used button clutch and keyboard steering. It's not that hard, you only need it at the start of a race, and when changing gear it's just a matter of pressing two buttons instead of one

I've had a G25 for the last two years though, and even if using a clutch pedal, gated shifter and 900° makes me slower I couldn't care less. I get far more enjoyment out of the game like this, and that's what it's all about for me. If I was hell bent on winning, I'd be using mouse steering with shifter macros. But that's not fun

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Unless i've missunderstood, it sounds like you're changing up under full throttle. I didn't think that was possible with the latest patches, but then again i've never used the normal (full) clutch, so i wouldn't really know ?

Flatshifting still works with all clutch modes, but it's not practical in all cars because of clutch heat. I lift most of the time, but it's not all that relevant to this thread.

What's all the crying about?

It's like a restaurant where a jacket is mandatory. If you don't have one, there are enough other places where you still can get grub. And if you do have a jacket, you'll have a good time at the jacketplace.
Other sims have a non-autoclutch option too. It has never hurt anybody there.

If people face the extra challenge of correctly using a clutch, as the sim is designed for, it's not fair to let them race against people who have the advantage of autoclutch.

It's an assist after all.

but the restaraunt is the only one with chineese food :hide:

btw....:bump:

Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

What's all the crying about?
It's like a restaurant where a jacket is mandatory. If you don't have one, there are enough other places where you still can get grub. And if you do have a jacket, you'll have a good time at the jacketplace.

I love this analogy

Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

What's all the crying about?

It's like a restaurant where a jacket is mandatory. If you don't have one, there are enough other places where you still can get grub. And if you do have a jacket, you'll have a good time at the jacketplace.
Other sims have a non-autoclutch option too. It has never hurt anybody there.

If people face the extra challenge of correctly using a clutch, as the sim is designed for, it's not fair to let them race against people who have the advantage of autoclutch.

It's an assist after all.

Plenty of things aren't fair,but you never find two drivers with the same identical setup.
I could say that my DFP is limiting me compared to people who have better wheels,but who cares?
I find it really uncomfortable to sit on a chair and place my wheel on my desk but i have to wait until i get a playseat or similar.
I find it really annoying to stay in front of my 15 inch laptop,with two tiny speakers trying to push sound waves out of them.
I could even complian the fact that you have a clutch pedal and,because of that,you are much more precise controlling the car at the start or while changing gears.
I could go on forever,i am just waiting for someone to suggest compulsory helmet to drive online.
Why you want people to have the same things that you have?Ever tought some racers cannot afford a good wheel,a bigger screen,a playseat?

I am getting the impression that a number of people have gone out and bought a clutch, and now feel they are somehow disadvantaged. That is about the shape of the message emerging here isn't it?

Until I saw this thread I felt I probably wanted a clutch pedal, eventually, but now, well, it's a lot less clear cut as issues go.

There also seems to be a side serving of wanting a dress code, which has nothing to do with actual driving or improvement of the software.

Well if nothing else it has solved one area of mild indecision in my life, buy a fridge or a G25(7), based on what has been said here, the fridge wins!

This campaign appears to have resulted in anti clutch pedal marketing, probably not the original intention, but there it is.

The point is that you should buy a set of pedals with a clutch not to be faster or the fastest(not JUST for that,at least)but to simulate the game experience even better.
There is tons of evidence proving that joypad and mouse users are as fast if not faster than -wheel with clutch- users.
Is it a disadvantage to have a clutch?Probably,but no one forced you to use one and no one has to have one because you use it.
I enjoy playing LFS and i would enjoy it too even if i raced with a keyboard(i think).I dont feel the need to start using a mouse to have light speed countersteer and to save a bit of space around my desk.
NO,i let others play the way they want and i don't care if im slower.

Clutch control is - if you like it or not - a part of car simulation. If you can't use it - for whatever reason - there should be an opportunity to drive with autoclutch. That's not the question.

The issue is this: A sport or a game is an activity in which people overcome unnecessary obstacles under equal conditions to determine who possesses the most skill. If you take away the equal conditions the entire concept of what a sport or game is gets spoiled.

So by not having autoclutch as a server-option the opportunity to meet the conditions that constitute a fair game is taken away from a large part of the community.

It is not about being faster, it's about the fact that the basic nature of what a sport or game is, is being denied to a substantial group of LFS users.

Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

Clutch control is - if you like it or not - a part of car simulation. If you can't use it - for whatever reason - there should be an opportunity to drive with autoclutch. That's not the question.

The issue is this: A sport or a game is an activity in which people overcome unnecessary obstacles under equal conditions to determine who possesses the most skill. If you take away the equal conditions the entire concept of what a sport or game is gets spoiled.

So by not having autoclutch as a server-option the opportunity to meet the conditions that constitute a fair game is taken away from a large part of the community.

It is not about being faster, it's about the fact that the basic nature of what a sport or game is, is being denied to a substantial group of LFS users.

You never have equal conditions.

As equal as possible without getting unreasonable then. Being able to turn an assist off when players want it is not unreasonable.

Jesus...

Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

As equal as possible without getting unreasonable then. Being able to turn an assist off when players want it is not unreasonable.

Jesus...

But why would you want that?
Race as you wish,not everyone can have room for a wheel or buy a new one.

Like I said, because it defeats the purpose of a game.

we had this all settled