The online racing simulator
The Rfactor thread. (rF & rF2)
(431 posts, started )
Can anyone explain the pay options? I haven't had a chance to look at the installed (nor install it) but it looks to me like there's no cheaper 'offline only' option like was communicated before, only short term and long term online package options for payment?
As voucher codes (to gift to someone) are disabled during beta, we can't be sure about the possible future existence os the "offline account".
Quote from MAGGOT :Can anyone explain the pay options?

1) Pay
2) Don't pay



Seriously though it's like $18/year for online so...

Anyway, if you buy it now you don't have to worry about it for 1.5 years.
$18? I can do that. I'll deal with upgrade/whatever when the time comes, then.

Now... I just need a chance to try it out. Busy busy all weekend.. and I just got another freelance job from my old boss. =/
Make sure you check the troubleshooting forum over at ISI. There are some nescessary tweaks to be done to make the software behave at least somwheat properly for most people.
Because obviously how it behaves in one video while it's 50 feet in the air is more important than the 3 pages of experienced sim-racers raving about how good the tyre physics feels.
Can I run rFactor 2?
These are my specs.

CPU: 800-MHz Via C3
RAM: 128 SDRAM
Motherboard: Via Apollo PLE133
Hard Drive: 10GB 5,400-rpm Maxtor Ultra-ATA 100
CD-ROM: NEC 52X
Video: 8MB Trident
OS: Lindows 2.0
Quote from Crashgate3 :Because obviously how it behaves in one video while it's 50 feet in the air is more important than the 3 pages of experienced sim-racers raving about how good the tyre physics feels.

I don't have much trust in the judgement of purely sim-racers any more, even though I was a pure sim-racer for the vast majority of my life. To many sim-racers like iRacing, rFactor, GTR etc, and have reasonably sounding arguments why they think they are correct.

I also don't trust the opinion of pure real-racers either (i.e. virtually nil home sim experience). They generally have very little understanding of how to drive WITHOUT the cues that only a real car can provide. Any celebrity endorsement is bullshit. Ben Collins driving Project CARS? Ha ha ha. But the developers seem to listen to him. Maybe he does have a sim-racing background?

These days if 1 million sim-only drivera and real-only drivers rate a sim, whilst someone who does both (e.g. Dennis Lind) doesn't, then I would trust the judgement of that one person.

But I would say that.

I haven't tried rFactor2. I don't plan to. It doesn't excite me, and I don't believe it will stand the test of time as being any good. I recall lots of people thought (and still do!) that rF1 was actually quite good.
I am here to save you Tristan.

I've tried almost all the cars apart from the 1960's F2.

My favourite car and what feels what should be most realistic is the Renault Megane.

The WSR or Formula Renault 3.5 is not as real as i wanted it to be, it's way too stiff in everything and tyres a poorly modelled, so basically it's a rubber ball with way to much 'tyre' grip, actually, the fastest way to drive this car is 4 wheeld drifts, and if you look at the undertray of the car and the wings, this car should be on rails in order for it to work perfectly, BUT BUT, we are still in beta so let's enlighten alittle, and wait till the come up with a non-generic tyre model.

The F3 1960's Probably the car i enjoy driving the most, simply because it feels just like a Formula Ford does, and therefore i found it very fun, you have to drive it absolutely on every limit possible, and just that little bit extra, the tyre model on this setup feels great, though the Default setup needs some work in order to work well, same as the 3.5.

The F1 1960's.
What can i say, great tyre model, huge scare factor and massive speed, these cars never stop accelerating, so buckle up and be alert, or you will end up inside a build or on a field.


Hope it lightened some people.

*In case you don't know, I race in real life and have tried pretty much any type of car you can name, so therefore i take my report as very valid and usefull*



Can i suggest you to buy rF 2? Hell yeah!
Quote from tristancliffe :
I haven't tried rFactor2. I don't plan to. It doesn't excite me, and I don't believe it will stand the test of time as being any good. I recall lots of people thought (and still do!) that rF1 was actually quite good.

Yes, but *I* never thought RF1 was good

But seriously though, aren't you even the least bit curious about the video I posted of that crappy Honda and the tire behaviour? LFS is the only folks who've done anything remotely like that so far, surely there's some cells in your noggin just dying to have a go, and you're telling yourself otherwise!

I've "taken the piss" with every ISI product to date on this very forum... until now.
When someone says something about rf1 it is always hard to know what they are actually talking about. Majority of rf1 content is crap, especially when looking at physics. But some isn't and beats lfs easily imho. It is a sim that has some very nice content in it that makes it very competitive and it has some very bad content that is worse than what we had 15 years ago.

Then some people do not even care about physics as long as the cars do sound like the real deal or the cockpits and car models are really shiny. You know, the same people who think rf2 is crap .

Personally I find the whole driver feedback thing almost completely useless. Sims are based on numbers and real data and unlike in real life you can put in numbers in a sim that make it do stuff that are not possible in real life. In real life you can not make a tire that sticks like chewing gum, has hardness of clint eastwood and follows the bumpy road like wet like a wet sock. But plug in the numbers and that's the tire you are using. There are different limits in sim and unlike in reality those limits are at best only as good as the numbers you put in and in worst case only as good as your physics engine.

Therefore the feel of the sim is just product of the numbers. If the feel is not correct you are either wrong about the feel as a driver or the numbers are wrong.

For a driver feedback to be useful he, she or it needs to be able to tell for example if a car drives certain way because springs are wrong, the suspension geometry is wrong or a tire stiffness is wrong. "Having driven many sim cars I think the center of gravity is 3cm too high and on the front the front grille should have 20% more drag. Plus the yaw inertias are at least 15% off for crying out aloud." That's the kind of stuff these chuck norrises of driver feedback experts need to be able to tell for the opinion to be useful. And no one can do that.

I think part of the problem is that because many people can drive a sim car they also think they have knowledge about how it works and that their opinion about how it drives should be worth something. I can drive a car - I know how it should feel... In the worst case they think that because they drive real race cars they could actually design one... Or no, the worst case is that they drive a road car to work and think they have something valuable to share. Omg real cars do not slip and slide! Because driver thinks the car drifts all over the place but his friend's real camaro that he sometimes drives to a small powerslide on wet around a roundabout doesn't feel as easy to control... That's one messy paragraph right there.

If they can tweak the setup they then they think can tweak the suspension parameters and maybe even the tire numbers. People do build real cars from scratch in real life so why could they not do the same in sims? Is engineering anything else than knowing how it drives or should drive?

I have always found it really odd and very worrying that sim devs are always so keen to listen what real drivers say about their sims. Even iracing does change the cars based on driver feedback which is just so wrong on many levels.

For physics driver feedback is imho just plain meaningless. It is not totally useless overall though imho. There are lots of stuff that the driver can tell about driving the car that is not directly about the handling.

In the end though feel is all we have. Most of us will never drive a race car and few even do trackdays. Therefore the feel is all we have got. It is not a bad thing to prefer one type of feeling to other but one needs to remember that his or her feeling is not a fact. How I like to drive the cars is different than how I think a car should drive.

I slap, punch and kick myself several times a week just to prevent myself from writing anything that could be considered to be about car physics in a way that it is only based on feel. I do wish real race car drivers would do the same things to allow our sim cars to be actually more realistic instead of just feeling more realistic.
Many people on here think they know enough about cars, physics, and racing to feel like they should criticize the work of others. I for one can't remember ever thinking they might be doing something wrong with racing sims because I know nothing about it in real life. I am not talking about arcade racing like NFS or the older games or sims.

I can only compare things like rF1 and 2. That is where a lot of the whining comes from. Going on about the lack of work I understand. How do we know what to expect? But I have been playing around with rF2 for the past couple weeks and am worried about the competition. I am sticking with LFS no matter how long it takes, I will always be here. LFS users are among the most knowledgeable and talented in the racing community. I don't want to scare people off by considering development to be dead, or saying they are doing something wrong because it feels different from iRacing.

I am glad this thread is here especially for the newcomers to understand the differences in these sims. I hope soon we will be able to compare the finished products. I would hate to see demo users going with rF2.
Just think of the best mods created for rF1 being involved in rF2.... I am drooling with excitment of this prospect.
Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :Yes, but *I* never thought RF1 was good

But seriously though, aren't you even the least bit curious about the video I posted of that crappy Honda and the tire behaviour? LFS is the only folks who've done anything remotely like that so far, surely there's some cells in your noggin just dying to have a go, and you're telling yourself otherwise!

I've "taken the piss" with every ISI product to date on this very forum... until now.

I'd like to try it, of course. But I'm not willing to part with money for it no matter what the hype is or how many videos of deflecting tyres are posted

I do like to buy noteworthy sims early - I pre-ordered nKP, rF, GTR, CARS, F12010. But not this one. With the reputation rF has in my mind, I'll wait for the finished product and see what people think then.
Quote from tristancliffe :I'd like to try it, of course. But I'm not willing to part with money for it no matter what the hype is or how many videos of deflecting tyres are posted

I do like to buy noteworthy sims early - I pre-ordered nKP, rF, GTR, CARS, F12010. But not this one. With the reputation rF has in my mind, I'll wait for the finished product and see what people think then.

But but but....

If people think it's good now (Dennis!) won't they presumably think it's even better upon full release?
I don't think anything tristan said in his last post makes sense. He says he is not getting rf2 because rf1's history and apparently rf2 isn't a noteworthy sim to buy early. But he has pre-ordered pcars and f12010.

I think he has started doing drugs. Probably pre-ordered some too. And I'm not talking about laxatives.
LOL!

What's with you lately just taking the piss with everything?
I am just one humble poster on lfsforums. Piss is never involved in my postings.
Surprisingly I can Fraps videos without murdering my FPS completely. Sometimes it dips though.

F1 @ Spa Test
... Thanks for making me see how slow I am Phil...
Damnit Flame quit screwing with things.
Quote from PMD9409 :Surprisingly I can Fraps videos without murdering my FPS completely. Sometimes it dips though.

F1 @ Spa Test

Drivers in the 60s had no fear. It's a white-knuckle-ride that.

The Rfactor thread. (rF & rF2)
(431 posts, started )
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