I never thought of Alonso as an unexciting driver. I actually think he is one of the few drivers who do try to pass others and not settle for the position behind them and wait until the pitstop.

I completely agree with Kev, except in principle.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think Alonso's probably the better all-round driver. Remember though that Alonso won his championships by driving smart, not pushing for points he couldn't achieve, always aiming for the best position his car could get. Whereas Hamilton's biggest fault is that he tries to beat everybody at every race.

So yeah, if I ran an F1 team I'd probably want Alonso in the car because I'd consider him a safer bet, but I'd be frustrated when Hamilton kept beating him. And a bit disappointed that while I might have the smartest driver, I haven't got the most exciting one.

When Alonso won the '06 WDC he did do it by driving solidly and bringing in points each race, but I think that because in the second part of the season the Renault couldn't match the other cars on pace, and this was really Alonso's only viable strategy. I remember they made Renault remove some piece of kit, forget what it was, and the car under-performed after that. I reckon if Alonso could have fought for race wins in '06 he would have, it's just that his car wouldn't let him.

Quote from DarkTimes :

I remember they made Renault remove some piece of kit, forget what it was, and the car under-performed after that. I reckon if Alonso could have fought for race wins in '06 he would have, it's just that his car wouldn't let him.

I think it was some thing called mass damping?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think Alonso's probably the better all-round driver. Remember though that Alonso won his championships by driving smart, not pushing for points he couldn't achieve, always aiming for the best position his car could get. Whereas Hamilton's biggest fault is that he tries to beat everybody at every race.

I believe that Alonso is the best F1 driver at the moment with Kubica. They both have what Hamilton is actually missing: strong nerves, self control and a clear overview of the race situation. Räikkönen might be at the top if only he was consistent and got rid of his 'days on and days off'. Vettel might also be a top driver, the future will tell us. Massa is a clown (yes, it's a personal opinion), he's fast but like Hamilton he can't handle the pressure. All other ones are just average drivers (average for this level of competition).
Talent only is not enough, you need something else more to be a champion.

Hamilton would better win the championship this year because I have the feeling that it will be much harder for him next year, but hopefully that will be more interesting for us. And then, maybe, the FIA won't have to randomly throw penalties for artificially making an interesting championship.
There is no anti-McLaren conspiracy nor pro-Ferrari conspiracy. It's all and only about audience.

Quote from diablo21 :

He said they're not treating him right. It's a rumour but eh.. He is not at the level that a driver in a top team should be. Even Alonso in the renault has more points than him.

To be fair, Kovalainen would probably be ahead of Alonso if he didn't suffer retirements in the last two races.

Having said that, yes he is underperforming. He's lost to both BMW drivers. Perhaps McLaren and BMW should swap Kovalainen and Heidfeld.

Has anyone noticed that Heidfeld has not suffered even one retirement this year? He could set a record for finishing an entire season without a retirement (last done by Schumacher in 2002). Le Mans for Heidfeld after F1, I think.

Quote from Lotesdelere :

I believe that Alonso is the best F1 driver at the moment with Kubica. They both have what Hamilton is actually missing: strong nerves, self control and a clear overview of the race situation. ...

I think you're right on your last point, but not the others. Hamilton seems to deal with pressure just fine, but he loses sight of the big picture too easily. And I think it's 100% an ego thing.

Look at some of the famous mistakes he's made. Shanghai last year he wore out his tyres racing Kimi when he didn't need to. Brazil last year he made a mistake trying to re-pass Alonso when he didn't need to. Last week he flat-spotted his tyres in T1 trying to re-pass Kimi, again, when he didn't need to.

I think he just cannot stand being beaten, especially by Fernando and Kimi, and I think it's mostly because they've had world championships and he hasn't. It's like he's feels he's got to beat them every race to prove that he's at their level.

On a few occasions McLaren have said they've been on the radio constantly telling him to slow down, it seems like he just can't bear the idea of finishing second. Maybe if he does win the championship this year it will calm him down a bit, but I doubt it.

I think Hamilton's a bit battered and bruised. Quite a few people he respects have been pretty honest about the way he still drives like he's karting. Got a feeling one or two of his heroes have said some non-too-kind things about the way he handles himself on the track, and I think he's hurting.

Alonso's lucky in this respect. His hero, Senna, ain't around to tell the F1 press what a wanker Alonso is and how the only team that wants him is Honda, because their current drivers are utterly shite. The other teams would rather do what they can with what they've got than risk him blackmailing them if he doesn't get the biggest Winnebago in the paddock.

It would be a good thing if Ferrari have a slight downtime, actually I never expected kimi to deliver a championship that soon. Before Schmacher era being a ferrari fan was just that, they are up there fighting for 3rd or 4th occasionally, they have a great spirit and if they occasionally win, that's great and everyone is happy, even though the wins are few and far between.

Now Ferrari are by default the team to beat, and everyone expect them to win almost everything, and that's somehow not a good feeling. in 98/99 it was disappointing when mclaren wins, but it was then logical and acceptable, because ferrari never have the best car on grid, they might have the best engine for a season, best chassis for a season but never the whole package and that gave some "excuses" if you like.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think Alonso's probably the better all-round driver. Remember though that Alonso won his championships by driving smart, not pushing for points he couldn't achieve, always aiming for the best position his car could get. Whereas Hamilton's biggest fault is that he tries to beat everybody at every race.

Someone's gonna have to say it, so it might as well be me.....What we're all saying here is, Alonso is more of a Prost character, whereas Hamilton is very similar to Senna

Some of our younger viewers may not realise, but back in the day, a lot of the criticisms Hamilton has been receiving recently were thrown at Senna when he first joined F1. And here's an admission. Back in the day, i soaked up all the negative press Senna was getting, and i didn't actually like him, i thought he was a bit of an arrogant, self righteous cock. In time i changed my opinion of him though, so at the moment i'm holding my judgement on Hamiltons personality, but loving his hard-charging driving style. He a true racer in the strictest sense of the word, and far more exciting to watch than anyone else on the track. And for that reason alone i think he does deserve to win the WDC this year.

Quote from diablo21 :

He said they're not treating him right. It's a rumour but eh.. He is not at the level that a driver in a top team should be.

I really don't believe that a bias currently exists at McLaren. I wonder if this alleged "rumour" like lots of other alleged "rumours" lately are all drummed up by people that are both nothing to do with McLaren (in which case, they aren't qualified to comment) and people that are willing Ferrari to win everything (in which case, they can just GTFO).

Quote from Mustafur :

It will be like 05 and 06 all over agian but this time he will have everyone supporting him

Not this man. Alonso has acted like a child in at least the last two races. You can call Hami as egotistical as you like, but at least he doesn't say things like "I will ensure xxdriver doesn't win by helping his nearest rival". What a complete douche.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Whereas Hamilton's biggest fault is that he tries to beat everybody at every race.

That's not a fault at all, that's a strength. Nothing wrong with wanting to achieve something. You don't get given anything in life, so when you have an opportunity like him, you make sure you damn well take it.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think he just cannot stand being beaten, especially by Fernando and Kimi, and I think it's mostly because they've had world championships and he hasn't. It's like he's feels he's got to beat them every race to prove that he's at their level.

On a few occasions McLaren have said they've been on the radio constantly telling him to slow down, it seems like he just can't bear the idea of finishing second. Maybe if he does win the championship this year it will calm him down a bit, but I doubt it.

This is a gem. Who likes being beaten by ANYONE? Stop making out that Hamilton is some kind of sub-human.

Also, in pretty much all of the interviews I have seen on TV this year, Ron Dennis has said repeatedly, that he lets Hami do pretty much what he wants on the track. If he's leading a race, I can't see him driving too fast, and when he's not, I can't imagine the team would tell him to slow down. Tsh.

Quote from SamH :

I think Hamilton's a bit battered and bruised. Quite a few people he respects have been pretty honest about the way he still drives like he's karting. Got a feeling one or two of his heroes have said some non-too-kind things about the way he handles himself on the track, and I think he's hurting.

Alonso's lucky in this respect. His hero, Senna, ain't around to tell the F1 press what a wanker Alonso is and how the only team that wants him is Honda, because their current drivers are utterly shite. The other teams would rather do what they can with what they've got than risk him blackmailing them if he doesn't get the biggest Winnebago in the paddock.

IMO, these other whiney drivers should shut up or step up. If Hami's driving was deemed to aggressive, then he'd have a penalty on every corner. No, the reality is they know he's that much better, and the only way they can get him back, is by childish name calling and finger pointing. Sad.

Also, agreed @ Alonso. I was starting to warm to him again this year after last year's shenanigans, but he's just gone right down again in my estimation. Drivers should drive, and keep their mouths shut.

He has every right to say what he said about hamilton due to the events of last year imo.

But in reality people are realising how alonso is the most developed driver on the field with hes incredible results this year in the Renault.

imo hes letting the driving do the talking.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Someone's gonna have to say it, so it might as well be me.....What we're all saying here is, Alonso is more of a Prost character, whereas Hamilton is very similar to Senna

I think Hamilton is more like Nigel Mansell.

Quote from SamH :

Alonso's lucky in this respect. His hero, Senna, ain't around to tell the F1 press what a wanker Alonso is and how the only team that wants him is Honda, because their current drivers are utterly shite. The other teams would rather do what they can with what they've got than risk him blackmailing them if he doesn't get the biggest Winnebago in the paddock.

Alonso signed with McLaren under the impression that:
1. He's numero uno; OR
2. He and Hamilton will be treated as equals.

But instead, partway through the season he perceived that the team favoured Hamilton. Obviously that would be cause for serious disgruntlement. If that perception was wrong, McLaren didn't seem to have tried hard enough to correct it. Hamilton's attitude didn't help.

Alonso did over-react and ended up throwing all the toys out of his little pram, but he wasn't the only tool in the shed.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Someone's gonna have to say it, so it might as well be me.....What we're all saying here is, Alonso is more of a Prost character, whereas Hamilton is very similar to Senna

That's pretty funny.

Quote from dawguk :

Stop making out that Hamilton is some kind of sub-human.

What? I said I thought he was impetuous. Remember when your teachers told you that reading and comprehension skills would be useful outside of school? Yeah.

Senna was a crazy mother, he stopped on circuit and caused a few crashes on purpose too! All in the name of the championship!

Quote from BlueFlame :

Senna was a crazy mother, he stopped on circuit and caused a few crashes on purpose too! All in the name of the championship!

Senna believed in winning like it was his birthright.

Bruno Senna said in an interview that his uncle used to tie weights to his jet ski to avoid being beaten when they raced together. How lame is that?

Great racer he was, but far too obsessive.

http://www.spiegel.de/internat ... rld/0,1518,576320,00.html

Quote from Bruno Senna :

The holidays in our beach house when he was away from racing, mostly at the end of the year. He was quite a family man and spent a lot of time with me and my sister. We were always racing Jet Skis. He was very competitive, extremely ambitious. I was very light, which gave me a benefit, so he put ballast on my Jet Ski and used a fully tuned one for himself -- with more power, special blades and a special turbine.

Given the possibilities we have now - between Massa and Hamilton: I'd rather prefer Hamilton to get the WDC.

I could never get behind Massa's racing style. He really doesn't strike me as a racer and somehow he comes out too whiney. As a tarmac gladiator that he and his peers are supposed to be he hasn't ever provided any thrills although he does equal Hamilton on facepalm moments.

However, I'm probably being a bit harsh as the times drivers have been in races that weren't parades this year and thus granted them situations to actually race were very few considering the extended calendar.

Quote from samjh :

Bruno Senna said in an interview that his uncle used to tie weights to his kart to avoid being beaten when they raced together. How lame is that?

It's called ballast. When Ayrton was alive Bruno weighed 30 kilos less than him and it's likely they wanted to have close racing = more fun and experience/training than just having the little shit stomping on the accelerator and disappearing?

Hamiltons Attitude is nothing like senna, No one on the grid is like Senna to be honest.
Alonso is growing into a Shumi from what it seems.

Alonso's style since he was in the Mclaren and Renault before was very similar to Hamilton only difference was he RARELY made mistakes. Now its more similar to shumi more conservitive but will go for it at the right time.

Hamilton drives aggressive, but hes attitude is childish, not aggressive and never speaks hes mind like Alonso.

Quote from Mustafur :

but hes attitude is childish

you're an idiot.

just speaking my mind, which is a good thing, right?

Quote from xaotik :

It's called ballast. When Ayrton was alive Bruno weighed 30 kilos less than him and it's likely they wanted to have close racing = more fun and experience/training than just having the little shit stomping on the accelerator and disappearing?

Sorry, it was jet skis. I corrected my post and put the source up.

Even so, it's lame. Ayrton Senna is a grown man. Bruno was just a little kid.

(I'm not fully serious, by the way.)

Quote from dawguk :

you're an idiot.

Uncalled-for aggressiveness is not as cool as the rest of the internet has you believing. Please reconsider your approach if you would like having discussions instead of pointless slugging matches.

Quote from dawguk :

you're an idiot.

just speaking my mind, which is a good thing, right?

I have yet to be proven he isn't childish, hes attitude is ultra conservitive/childish he barely says anything out of line but when he does its childish(montreal for example).

Quote from xaotik :

Uncalled-for aggressiveness is not as cool as the rest of the internet has you believing. Please reconsider your approach if you would like having discussions instead of pointless slugging matches.

in it's context (which you removed), it was fitting. further to this, i'd like to discuss how you are informed about what i might or might not learn from the the internet. you're a special person, for being able to read minds.

if my post was pointless, your response to it was equally so.

Quote from Mustafur :

I have yet to be proven he isn't childish, hes attitude is ultra conservitive/childish he barely says anything out of line but when he does its childish(montreal for example).

your point is self-negating completely. how can someone possibly be conservative AND childish? your logic is flawed. i suspect that you're now using words that you don't actually understand.

dawguk is clearly a Hammyfanboy. but regardless, his attitude isn't childish, it's just... Hamilton, that's who he is, he will never change. Schumacher was a cheat, Kimi is... emotionless. Mika was funny, and Button is clearly jealous of Hamilton

Quote from BlueFlame :

dawguk is clearly a Hammyfanboy. but regardless, his attitude isn't childish, it's just... Hamilton, that's who he is, he will never change. Schumacher was a cheat, Kimi is... emotionless. Mika was funny, and Button is clearly jealous of Hamilton

you're right, i am a fan of hamilton. however, i'm also a fan of kovalainen, trulli, vettel, heidfeld and for old times sake, barrichello.

i've watched f1 for some twenty three years now, so i've seen some great drivers come and go. alain prost, jean "crazy" allesi, gerhard berger, nigel mansell, ayrton senna, jacque villeneuve. these guys for me, were the types of drivers that made formula one great. the reason why i'm fans of the above drivers, is because i see the same sort of star qualities in them. they can make f1 great again, because they have the ability and (not least of all) personalities to do so. you could say that hamilton drives on the ragged edge some times, but it sure makes the sport a whole lot more watchable.