The online racing simulator
Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )

Poll : Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option?

Yes, I agree.
462
No! It should be removed.
223
Quote from BrandonAGr :For how many more pages will people repeat the same arguments?

For all eternity and forever!
I've tried using cockpit view and just can't do it

I use front wheels only and have ever since my first drive of LFS... I have real trouble driving from the cockpit in any game now.
#303 - Woz
Quote from originalau :I've tried using cockpit view and just can't do it

I use front wheels only and have ever since my first drive of LFS... I have real trouble driving from the cockpit in any game now.

I have to ask though... How long did you try for. 10mins then giving up is not trying btw.

I recently switched from look steer to axis so the view is locked forwards and my driving has got worse when trying to catch a slide but I have not given up yet.

Any changes you make take time.
I`m back

I tried this FCV, 30 minutes this evening (If you can`t beat them, join them) On As Club, i was only 2/10 of my hotlap PB in Xfg. Lx4 is still hopeless, but I beat my hotlap in Xrg, with 2/10.

Xrg is easier to drive FCV, I guess I certainly will test more, the coming days, in the other cars. But - I have no idea, what is happening around me

I now fully understand why so many hit me in open races - You can`t see a damned thing
yes i agree. I real cars you can't select you view You can only adjust your seat so that could be also possible in lfs. Remember - LFS is a SIMULATION

what meens you cant' see other cars? Use your mirrors and look left and right like in your real car!
#306 - Woz
Quote from alland44 :I`m back

I tried this FCV, 30 minutes this evening (If you can`t beat them, join them) On As Club, i was only 2/10 of my hotlap PB in Xfg. Lx4 is still hopeless, but I beat my hotlap in Xrg, with 2/10.

Xrg is easier to drive FCV, I guess I certainly will test more, the coming days, in the other cars. But - I have no idea, what is happening around me

I now fully understand why so many hit me in open races - You can`t see a damned thing

I map the 2 thumb buttons on my g25 as look left and right and dont use instant look so they give me 360 vision.

Try different fov's and try both look steer and axis as this all effects how you view the world and how you feel the car.

I use 64 fov and have just switched from look steer to axis which locks the view forward as I dont have it mapped to anything. I find look steer easier to hold the car over the edge and easier to drive like a hoon. With locked I can feel and hold the car better at the edge but can't recover as well.
Quote from Breizh :Forced cockpit shouldn't be forced in replays.

I really like how nk pro does this. When racing you have three available cameras. One is the (own) onboard one and the other two are the tv cameras. In replays you have the tv cameras and the few onboard cameras available but not the helmet camera.

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By learning to drive with other than cockpit camera you have taken a conscieus risk that some day it won't be available any more. Imho, in a simulation it is progress that more arcade stuff gets thrown out, even if it is just an option. An improvement, even if it is just an option.

If tire wear or suspension damage had been options when LFS S2 was released we would have one group of people who wouldn't want those options to be taken away. This group of people would be used to not having them. "I can't drive with tire wear. My pbs are lost for evah!!!!11". It was the same damn thing with realistic speedometer.

After all, it is just a server side option. If cockpit view is forced and you are using another view, switch to cockpit view or go away. Period.

Moving the camera higher (custom cameras) makes it easier to see where the track goes in front of you. Try we1R T1 in BF1 and you should get it. There is a thing called blind corner. With camera raised to 10feet high there simply aren't any blind corners.

Moving the camera in a position where you can see your tires or the whole body of the car gives you the extended view of how much room is there for the curbs and for other cars. In real life you don't see these, you evaluate the situations.

Quote from MagicFr :Guys.. be honest, it is more like that => ( see attachment )
That's why i use custom view.
I really dont like cokpit view, all of USELESS things in my pov : roof, dashboard( radio, other buttons), bottom of steering wheels etc....

It is just a technical limitation. As a game developer and all you surely know this.

With one 17" (guess, average?) screen and fixed camera location in-game you are bound to come up with a "special" arrengement to see your in-car instruments and also to see out from the car on that small screen. Bound to come up with a special solution in every sim. That special solution is the current cockpit view where the instruments, the parts around the windscreen and the windscreen itself are shown at the same time. Why?

In real life you can see only one thing at a time, or focus into one thing at a time. You can notice that something happens on the outer edges of you view but to see it you need to turn your head or at least turn your eyes towards it. In real life you either look out from the car or you look at the instruments (tachometer, speedometer, fuel, warning lights etc...). Or you look at your obese girlfriend next to you or whatever. But you can't look at multiple objects at the same time. Of course you see them but to really see you need to look. A human eye (or brains, not relevant) can focus to look at smaller objects which is something a camera in a game cannot do automatically without extra hardware (can trackIR, for example, focus or zoom because that is what I mean?).

Because of this we have one big screen that is made of all the stuff you could look at while sitting in a real car. A cockpit view made of all the stuff that woul probably see when you sit inside a car, with some reasonable limitations. Instruments, mirrors, bits of car body, windscreen and the view to the out from from the car. To fully simulate this with 17" screen you would need to design a totally new user interface to make it possible to focus your view on the screen, to control the camera that feeds the view into your screen. To control where the camera is pointing, where you want to look. Because such a user interface is hard to invent or requires expensive addon stuff (trackIR?), the current cockpit view is used instead.

The cockpit view looks like a view from the backseat because it shows all that stuff you would see if you actually sat on the backseat and looked what's in front of you. Unless you get 1m high and 2m wide screen wrapped around you, the current cockpit is the closest thing to reality you can get with less than 3 monitors. Imho, of course

In short, the current cockpit view needs to "show full dashboard view" so you can look at those small details without moving the camera itself.

I made a pic too but won't post it

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me, hc wannabe sim racer.
Quote from alland44 :I`m back

I tried this FCV, 30 minutes this evening (If you can`t beat them, join them) On As Club, i was only 2/10 of my hotlap PB in Xfg. Lx4 is still hopeless, but I beat my hotlap in Xrg, with 2/10.

Xrg is easier to drive FCV, I guess I certainly will test more, the coming days, in the other cars. But - I have no idea, what is happening around me

I now fully understand why so many hit me in open races - You can`t see a damned thing

Well well. Maybe we will meet on track some day after all. It's good to see you're big enough to give it a go. Respect.
Quote from Hyperactive :
By learning to drive with other than cockpit camera you have taken a conscieus risk that some day it won't be available any more. Imho, in a simulation it is progress that more arcade stuff gets thrown out, even if it is just an option. An improvement, even if it is just an option.

IMHO all the arguments for and against a forced view are missing the point. From many of the comments here it is obvious that the forced view is merely a bit of 'social engineering'.

It will divide those with lesser powered machines from those who can spend more on their recreational activities (quite spuriously equating an investment in home equipment with an investment in the future of LFS)

By stigmatising the use of any other view, it will cleanse the userbase of those who will now be considered as 'arcade gamers'. Quite unfairly in my view (pun intended!)

Sorry, I thought this was a racing simulator. I thought it was the racing that mattered. I didn't realise that lining up on the grid meant joining a particular social category.
Quote from nihil :IMHO all the arguments for and against a forced view are missing the point. From many of the comments here it is obvious that the forced view is merely a bit of 'social engineering'.

It will divide those with lesser powered machines from those who can spend more on their recreational activities (quite spuriously equating an investment in home equipment with an investment in the future of LFS)

By stigmatising the use of any other view, it will cleanse the userbase of those who will now be considered as 'arcade gamers'. Quite unfairly in my view (pun intended!)

Sorry, I thought this was a racing simulator. I thought it was the racing that mattered. I didn't realise that lining up on the grid meant joining a particular social category.

I agree. Using the cockpit wont make you a better person(or driver).

This reminds me of an reddwarf episode 'better than life' Real world restrictions aren't always the best choice( and vice-versa)

I had always driven without drawing any part of my car, working out the positions of other object via instinct. But now its all cockpit view.( can't be bothered to keep changing it)So what? You will get used to it
I'm still the same clean driver, still making new pb's and the sim is still fun.

My main objection was the timing, it should have been done a week before the competition started so people could get used to the new view.
Quote from -wes- :.... But now its all cockpit view...

But it's NOT all cockpit view! Check out how many servers there are with forced cockpit then come back and say that again.
Quote from nihil :From many of the comments here it is obvious that the forced view is merely a bit of 'social engineering'.

Of course it is. If you can't question the views of others with decent arguments you just label all with different opinions as fools.

Why did you even quote part of my post? It has nothing to do with your post, unless my post was meant to be some kind of example of this "joining a particular social category"-thing.

I'm not interested being part of some group with this cockpit thing. Not because nkpro does it right nor because lfs does it wrong. I want fully forced cockpit view because that is how I feel it should be. Based on many years as being in many real cars either as a passenger or a driver I have always sat inside the car and I have never understood why you would use any other view in a racing sim that is meant to be the closest thing to racing what you can do with a computer, a monitor, wheel and pedals.
There was a drawing, which showed us the custom views
It contained som big faults, but what if we took the FCV and made a picture of that

I did it, and now let me hear from the FCV fanboys, if there is any faults here

Now you can see my point of view
Attached images
forcedview.jpg
What motor you got in there(is it a 'true' R500)? And why does the picture look mirrored?

Edit -> and why do you have a monitor on top there?
Quote from srdsprinter :What motor you got in there(is it a 'true' R500)? And why does the picture look mirrored?

Edit -> and why do you have a monitor on top there?

The monitor is for the forced view, mate
That`s the whole point.


And yes - I reversed the car, to fit the screen
(The screens direction - The one sitting on the bonnet/hood)
How anyone can drive in the tail view is beyond me, keep the forced cockpit it's a simulation!!
Yawn. This thread is just going in circles. This has to stop before I get dizzy.
This thread is closed

Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )
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