The online racing simulator
Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )

Poll : Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option?

Yes, I agree.
462
No! It should be removed.
223
Quote from danowat :Also remember, that "wheel" encompasses ANY analog control device, be it gamepad or joystick too.

Also a mouse, if y axis is used for gas/brake. It's hard to get used to it tho.
Quote from Breizh :Forced cockpit shouldn't be forced in replays.

I was very annoyed when I couldn't pick any view to watch in the replays, what does that add to the sim?
Probably an oversight.
Quote from Chaos :I voted NO for one reason: FPS... not everybody has an enough powerful machine to get decent fps needed for racing... wheels view = more fps...
i was driving from the wheels view in S1, when S2 came I got into the cockpit, i had to relearn driving, but dealt with it... now with X there is the possibility to have so many drivers at the start that I had to go back to wheels view, because from the cockpit I had 10 - 20 fps in the first lap or two... 15fps = lfs unplayable...

For me it was the exact opposite. I ran wheels view for quite some time for the same reason, frame rate. When I finally had something that I could get decent frames in cockpit, I was so glad. I could finally feel like I was actually driving a car (to the extent that hardware allows...) and it was easier and my times got better. I didn't have to relearn. I didn't have the distractions of my wheels and the apex being right there below my sight. Like I've said, if you are looking at your wheels or the apex, you are looking at the wrong place. You want to look way up ahead to where you want to go.
Quote from Gunn :"Seeing your wheels" is not chase view. Chase view puts you up high so that you can see quite a way in front of you and even see what is around the bend. This applies to both autox and circuit racing. In a flat autox environment it is particularly noticeable.

I probably could have worded what I said better. Chase view at best provides a minimal advantage in circuit racing only by better being able to see obstacles up the road which might otherwise be obscured. This is no advantage in autox when drivers have memorised a layout already.
It is arguable that chase view provides a minimal advantage in positioning your car in autox but the crux of my point was that this, in and of itself, doesn't automatically mean you can position your car exactly where you want to. You still require the car car control to do so. If someone betters your time using chase view then imo 99 times out of 100 this will be because of their overall skill rather then the view, maybe even 999 times out of 1,000. Of course this is hard to quantify exactly.
My original comment was also referring to wheels view which some view as an advantage also in both circuit and autox racing. Having extensively raced with both wheels view and cockpit view I don't believe there is any real advantage when it comes to positioning your car. Contrary to popular perception you can't drive well in wheels view by focusing on the wheels, at most it can help by having a quick glance when you apex a corner to assess whether you got as close to the apex as you could have done. Still spatial awareness meant I never had much of a problem in this respect once I switched to cockpit view.

Apart from a few obvious things like chase views better view of the road ahead I think it's all just assumption become fact. Granted however that other advantages are probably something that are impossible to objectively prove or disprove.
Quote from anttt69 :'One picture speaks a thousand words' quality diagram huru

Guys.. be honest, it is more like that => ( see attachment )
That's why i use custom view.
I really dont like cokpit view, all of USELESS things in my pov : roof, dashboard( radio, other buttons), bottom of steering wheels etc....
Attached images
lfs_pov.jpg
Alright, then my driving with my arms fully extended to my wheel fits in LFS...
MagicFr - totally depends on what FOV you use, and what shape your display is.

High FOVs / narrow screens seem to be too far back from the screen. You want to use custom view to move yourself closer to the dash.

Low FOVs / wide screens seems to be to close to the dash. You want to use custom view to move yoursely away from the dash.
A realistic fov is about 65 degree
Try it and you will notice good object proportion in game.
I use it at 1024x768 (no widescreen)
Quote from Becky Rose :So i'm not in favour of the current implementation. I think if we are to have enforced cockpit view then I would like to see it restricted to any point at or forward of the drivers head - so that custom views can still be used.

Again, quoted for truth.

Some interesting figures - at a 1024x768 window in cockpit, using UF1 in the default cockpit view at 80-90 FOV you get an effective viewport of 980x315 (it's actually less but I can't be bothered to do it pixel perfectly).

That renders a loss of 477732 pixels. Thats over half the screen.

Just what I want. Half the screen looking at information which is USELESS to me. I don't look at the speedos, revcounter, fuel, clock or time. I sure as hell don't want to look at the interior of the car. It's not like I'm fiddling with the radio.

Granted yes its an option, granted its the choice of the server adminstrators and the choice of the player to race how they want.

But think of it this way; If I wanted realism I'd be sitting in a cockpit in my games room, on a motion platform with 3 screens or a projector. Better yet, I'd be on the race track in a real car.

Forcing cockpit view in it's current implementation is irrelevant other than to waste screen estate and piss off people with multiple screens.

When you consider just how many people in the community bang on about realism I'm somewhat surprised that they don't care more about racing experience that they get from LFS and just how they think that wasting resources can be justified.

The thing is given the community, I can see this becoming the defacto standard, and I can see it splitting the community even more than it already is between "drifters" and "grippers". Whilst this isn't my problem I my perspective shouldn't affect the development team (after all it's their baby), I still think it's wrong.

Edit: Yes if you run a lower FOV you do get more viewport, but the mirrors become useless, and the sense of speed is lost.
+1 well said.

I just try to imagine what it looks like to buy an expensive real cockpit, integrate 3 monitors to use 140 degrees FOV, then sit, connect a server, and discover that 2/3rd of your monitors area is covered with another cockpit and another wheel.

Hehe, it may be funny....or not.
As far as i can tell the FCV is Only there for the LX challenge to add the realism of driver offset from the center of the car. Knowing your cars dimensions is paramount in precision driving, like auto-cross, and placing yourself center to the vehicle takes away some of that responsibility. Having a degree of impaired vision (A-pillars/bonnet) is part of driving (more-so closed-wheeled cars).

That said, legitimate concerns about FCV include:
-Decreased FPS performance due to CV.
-Decreased driver visability/inability to view mirrors with a comfortable FOV.

The problem is that LFS tries to be playable to the least common denominator of PC. As mentioned, a low-resolution 15"lcd (1024x768) has very limited vision with the currently allowed FOV in CV. If we all had 22"+ widescreens and high performance PC's, I doubt the legitimate concerns would be as high.

The negative feedback, still less than 1-in-3, brings a good point(s) though. The current FCV needs more adjustment than the current FOV. Adjustable height +/-, fore/aft movement, view angle up/down, and FOV could provide more people with "playable" environments. The problems still include being able to see rear-view mirrors with lower resolution monitors. Also the spectator/replays not being free view seems to be a mistake.

Perhaps (Extreme Conjecture) FCV is also to encourage the CV, in the countdown till the new Eric Interiors arrive. I doubt this, but who knows.

LFS is a sim, and Scavier hope to bring the most realistic online racing simulation. People who are angry for reasons not due to the current constraints of the FCV are mad for the wrong reasons.
I don't understand the people who say they can't tell when the back end is loosing it unless they use chase view. I use mouse and cockpit view and I can feel when the back end is loosing it easily enough.
Ive drove using cockpit view since i got the game, so it doesn't effect me.
Im a bit pee'd off that in replays your locked 2 cockpit aswell thou
Quote from srdsprinter :As far as i can tell the FCV is Only there for the LX challenge to add the realism of driver offset from the center of the car. Knowing your cars dimensions is paramount in precision driving, like auto-cross, and placing yourself center to the vehicle takes away some of that responsibility. Having a degree of impaired vision (A-pillars/bonnet) is part of driving (more-so closed-wheeled cars).

That said, legitimate concerns about FCV include:
-Decreased FPS performance due to CV.
-Decreased driver visability/inability to view mirrors with a comfortable FOV.

The problem is that LFS tries to be playable to the least common denominator of PC. As mentioned, a low-resolution 15"lcd (1024x768) has very limited vision with the currently allowed FOV in CV. If we all had 22"+ widescreens and high performance PC's, I doubt the legitimate concerns would be as high.

The negative feedback, still less than 1-in-3, brings a good point(s) though. The current FCV needs more adjustment than the current FOV. Adjustable height +/-, fore/aft movement, view angle up/down, and FOV could provide more people with "playable" environments. The problems still include being able to see rear-view mirrors with lower resolution monitors. Also the spectator/replays not being free view seems to be a mistake.

Perhaps (Extreme Conjecture) FCV is also to encourage the CV, in the countdown till the new Eric Interiors arrive. I doubt this, but who knows.

LFS is a sim, and Scavier hope to bring the most realistic online racing simulation. People who are angry for reasons not due to the current constraints of the FCV are mad for the wrong reasons.

Probably the best post I've seen so far in all of this nonsense.
there are advantages to both the incar view as well as just the front wheels.

Should be a user's choice!

But for a specific competition, its great!
Quote from MagicFr :Guys.. be honest, it is more like that => ( see attachment )
That's why i use custom view.
I really dont like cokpit view, all of USELESS things in my pov : roof, dashboard( radio, other buttons), bottom of steering wheels etc....

That's the beauty of trackIR... I can just slide my office chair forward/back for any view I want :P
Quote from MagicFr :Guys.. be honest, it is more like that => ( see attachment )
That's why i use custom view.
I really dont like cokpit view, all of USELESS things in my pov : roof, dashboard( radio, other buttons), bottom of steering wheels etc....

You can change fov in those servers where forced cockpit is on
Quote from Hawku :You can change fov in those servers where forced cockpit is on

Come on guys... you know that fov changes sense of speed, and so, driving's feelings, so this not even an option.

Be honest guys, cockpit is more realistic, true, but the one in LFS, isn't.
That said, i voted for "I agree...", but we need an option to move seat forward/back and up/down.
Quote from MagicFr :That said, i voted for "I agree...", but we need an option to move seat forward/back and up/down.

I haven't voted because even though I don't like cockpit view much and find that wheel view "feels" more realistic as oposed to "looks" more realistic, I think it should remain as a server option. I would however like to see seat adjustment in cockpit view before I'd be comfortable with it.
Quote from Spils :
Im a bit pee'd off that in replays your locked 2 cockpit aswell thou

Didn't realise that.... That's just dumb and I presume an artefact of LFS being a work in progress?
Quote from nihil :Didn't realise that.... That's just dumb and I presume an artefact of LFS being a work in progress?

Quote from Scawen in the X10 Thread :Sorry about the last minute update just before the autocross competition, but we needed to add two features.

- Added new multiplayer option : force cockpit view
- Moved cones and physics objects are restored more quickly

There were some issues with the X version which made this update important.

I think this implementation of FCV was done in a hurry and will change again
I definitly agree with the force cockpit view option, after all.. it's a serious racing simulation!
For how many more pages will people repeat the same arguments?
This thread is closed

Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )
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