The online racing simulator
Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )

Poll : Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option?

Yes, I agree.
462
No! It should be removed.
223
Quote from BrandonAGr :How can people argue that the cockpit view is best because it is more realistic? Do you drive your car by looking at a 19" lcd screen that is 3 feet in front of you, no you don't, so there will NEVER BE A WAY for the view in LFS to be absolutely realistic....

Search for CWMAX's thread that has his video and tell me his cockpit view is unrealistic

I try to simulate what the view would look like if I was looking out the windshield of my car. I use the desk and wheel controller in my simulated view. My monitor sits directly behind my wheel. I use 50-60 FOV so that I can just see the gauges on screen since I don't have external gauges to connect to outgage (or whatever it's called). The area between the wheel and monitor is my dash area, disregarding the fact that my gauges are on screen. My screen is the windshield and at 50-60 FOV, simulates what you would see looking directly ahead through the windshield IRL. Thus, I indeed have no simulated peripheral vision because I do not have a 3 display setup to give me peripheral vision. I use the look to apex option, so I can see quite clearly when I'm cornering. I use the look left/right setup on my paddles quite often, thus no need for the useless side mirrors or peripheral vision.

This topic has been beaten to death in the past, and is really beaten to death currently with the addition of forced cockpit now. There is no argument of what is realistic and what is not. Of course it isn't realistic looking at a 17 inch display and saying that is exactly like real life. But what we are trying to do is simulate driving a race car within the confinements of computer equipment, thus the argument is indeed that the cockpit view simulates realism much greater than the chase cam, or any other stock view within racing sims. Your yelling that there is no realistic view because you are looking at a 19' screen is just ridiculous, because it assumes that folks here believe that sim racing completely replaces the real thing. It simulates and tries to recreate the most realistic feeling of driving that you can with a computer. Of course we don't think it is ultimate realism. You would only get close to that with a complete cockpit and a 360 degree display. We aren't imbeciles, but with a post like one quoted, it certainly displays that some folks can be.
My view is that it's a GAME, and that it's ok to sacrifice some realism in the name of fun.

Being able see your tire temperatures and pressures to the degree isn't exactly realistic, not by a long shot, but being able to do so makes the game allot more fun.

I say leave the basic game mechanics as realistic as possible (since that seems to be the mission of this game), but sacrifice as much as needed in the visual department, in the name of fun, without entering the realm of idiocy.
Personally
Personally I just think that the view should be forced IN THE COCKPIT. Additionally, everyone should be forced to use the same set. That way it's a competition of who is the best DRIVER, not who is the best TWEAKER. In fact, honestly, if there was a way to force the SHIFT+F view too, so that all the HUD displays (tire temps, time, cones hit, etc...) were gone, I'd opt for that too.
Quote from Stang70Fastback :Personally I just think that the view should be forced IN THE COCKPIT. Additionally, everyone should be forced to use the same set. That way it's a competition of who is the best DRIVER, not who is the best TWEAKER. In fact, honestly, if there was a way to force the SHIFT+F view too, so that all the HUD displays (tire temps, time, cones hit, etc...) were gone, I'd opt for that too.

The problem here is that in real life, the driver can just turn on the radio and ask the pit crew about his tyre temps, what sort of compound they're planning on putting on next, how much fuel they're going to put in next round, what his last split time was, what his current time is, etc etc. In LFS though, you don't get that luxury, and the ingame readoffs are the closest thing to a pit crew that we'll probably ever get.
Quote from thisnameistaken :I don't think things like physics changes or brake fade are very useful comparisons. Nobody ever complains when the physics change.

Stuff like that is the same for everybody. Whereas in this case, some people feel they've had their driving method ruined or made obsolete - that's why they are angry about it.

I shouldn't really have to explain this...

i probably shouldnt say this, but when drifters complained about steering lock being reduced to a more "realistic" ammount. everyone else said "deal with it, its more realistic". Now this change comes and look at the uproar. :ices_rofl after a few weeks everything will calm down again. This is a serverside OPTION. Scawen could add a keyboard/mouse only serverside option and i wouldnt care, because i could simply choose not to join that server.

I'd love to see a "Force Setup" option. everyone has to use the same gear ratios and suspension settings with maybe a few things tweakable like caster and steering lock. thats it.
Hell yeah, forced setup would be awesome, along with realistic garage setup options, they are fair to adjustable ATM.
So Far, 3 Mods said no,(alheely, XCNuse and Scirocco)
mods are not perfect
Quote from thisnameistaken :I don't think things like physics changes or brake fade are very useful comparisons. Nobody ever complains when the physics change.

Stuff like that is the same for everybody. Whereas in this case, some people feel they've had their driving method ruined or made obsolete - that's why they are angry about it.

I shouldn't really have to explain this...

Quote from Gabkicks : This is a serverside OPTION. Scawen could add a keyboard/mouse only serverside option and i wouldnt care, because i could simply choose not to join that server.

You would care if 70% of all racers used keyboard.
I'm confused with this poll - do you mean "do you agree with the existence of the cockpit-only option" or "do you agree with always using the cockpit-only option"? Because I'm all for options...
Quote from thisnameistaken :They are very different. This change (forced cockpits) doesn't affect me, apparently it doesn't affect you either, but it does affect lots of other people. Whereas a physics change is the same for everybody.

I can totally understand why the chase view guys are freaking out. Have you ever tried playing LFS in chase view? It's impossible! I imagine that's how they feel about cockpit - it would take them a lot of effort to adapt, and they don't particularly want to adapt because they don't like that view anyway.

Couldnt say it better. Its exactly how it is.
Personally i voted "no" ...tbh but i have no problem with the existance of the option. I just can decide not to join the servers where its on.

The only thing is that i am afraid that the leagues i am racing in use this option.

Which means for me either not taking part, or being a risk for every other driver because of less overview or driving way behind everyone else.
I allready tried to change to cockpit after vykos wrote in a forum that one of his team-mates got faster after the change. But it would be really a hell lot of effort adapting to cockpit and i think it would take me at least half the time i allready spent in lfs to get to my present speed again, because i am not the talented driver :P.
Quote from Gabkicks :mods are not perfect

Look at Sam (if you dare risk your vision... ), he smells, slightly less now that he had his bi-annual shower, and he has horrible habits on TS, always cursing and swearing!, and he's almost as slow as me. Mods aren't perfect, but that's what makes us love them.
I'm all for having a serverside option to force a cockpit view.

If the damage model changes more it could become a deciding factor (as it sometimes already is if you roll over and your view is blocked by the roof between your eyes

This would increase fairness in a competition. I doubt it will have any/much use on a public server really unless the server host prefers it him/herself.

The serverhost should be able to configure his server in a way he prefers people to drive. Serverhosts with outlandish preferences will look at an empty server, but always have the option to make sure there is one server configured how they like to play or think LFS is most fun.
Quote from PLAYLIFE :You would care if 70% of all racers used keyboard.

how do we know 70% of racers arent keyboarders? are there statistics anywhere?
Quote from sinkoman :The problem here is that in real life, the driver can just turn on the radio and ask the pit crew about his tyre temps, what sort of compound they're planning on putting on next, how much fuel they're going to put in next round, what his last split time was, what his current time is, etc etc. In LFS though, you don't get that luxury, and the ingame readoffs are the closest thing to a pit crew that we'll probably ever get.

I realize that, but I was only really saying that because I personally find all that telemetry distracting. I always press SHIFT+F at the beginning of the run because otherwise I'm always glancing at the number of cones I've hit, and that usually screws me up. When you talk to the pit crew, you don't have to take your eyes off the road, even if it's only for a split second. Besides, if everyone was forced to use the same set, you wouldn't have to worry about tire-temps and such anyway, because you couldn't change them.
Quote from Gabkicks :how do we know 70% of racers arent keyboarders? are there statistics anywhere?

Germany, United Kingdom, and United States make up nearly half of the licensed racers.

Germany
Wheel-1475
Mouse-103
Kb-65

UK
Wheel-622
Mouse-79
Kb-48

US
Wheel-449
Mouse-62
Kb-44


For those three country-stats wheels make up about 86%. The pattern is much the same in other places that I've checked. It's all on lfsworld.
Nice stats, good to see wheel outwieghts keyboard and mouse by a large margin.

Also remember, that "wheel" encompasses ANY analog control device, be it gamepad or joystick too.
Quote from thisnameistaken :I don't think things like physics changes or brake fade are very useful comparisons. Nobody ever complains when the physics change.

A quote from sombody in another thread:
-1 for rain. It would make it harder to control the car.
Quote from herki :A quote from sombody in another thread:
-1 for rain. It would make it harder to control the car.

Yeah I'd momentarily forgotten what a bunch of cissies most people are - they can't race unless they've got slicks and wings.
Quote from danowat :Nice stats, good to see wheel outwieghts keyboard and mouse by a large margin.

Also remember, that "wheel" encompasses ANY analog control device, be it gamepad or joystick too.

Yep, those stats aren't too accurate. Personally I've been using a mouse for over a year now, but in order to have the setup I like I have to choose the 'wheel' setting in game, so any stats for me say I have a wheel.
Forced cockpit shouldn't be forced in replays.
I agree with the use of forced cockpit view, people should not drive from the hood
I voted NO for one reason: FPS... not everybody has an enough powerful machine to get decent fps needed for racing... wheels view = more fps...
i was driving from the wheels view in S1, when S2 came I got into the cockpit, i had to relearn driving, but dealt with it... now with X there is the possibility to have so many drivers at the start that I had to go back to wheels view, because from the cockpit I had 10 - 20 fps in the first lap or two... 15fps = lfs unplayable...
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Do you agree with the "forced cockpit view" option
(317 posts, closed, started )
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