Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

With the first configuration, I was able to do 30 laps of racing without problems. There, in a few laps in the same conditions, the tires died.

Which track did you run on and do you have a replay? I did a test on FE Black, I drove 7 laps. After lap 2 or 3 the tyres reached equilibrium and I was able to keep them between 95-100 °C. Which is still very good for R2, gripwise. Also, only the inner third of the rear tyres actually got near 100 °C, the rest was very homogenous bright green:



When fighting against the AI and pushing hard out of the corners, they began overheating quickly (highest 104 °C), but I was always able to cool them back down immediately (half a lap) just by getting on the throttle a tiny bit later.
Compared to the R3s not even getting remotely warm, I actually think we should stick to R2s.

Remember that these are just base setups. The most important thing for me is that they work out of the box and that the cars are predictable and reactive from the first lap you actually drive them. No matter the track you choose. If, for a specific track, the tyres only last 10-15 laps when pushing hard, is that really a problem? I'd say good that these setups are not fixed in this case

I will try to mitigate the issue a little bit and keep it in mind for the other setups (which I should probably switch to R2 as well).

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

With the first configuration, I was able to do 30 laps of racing without problems. There, in a few laps in the same conditions, the tires died.

Thank you for the feedback!

I see the problem you're having. Currently the XRT CS300 is the only car that runs on R2, the other three run on R3 slicks.
I can try to make the XRT CS300 work on R3s, although this requires a bit more work than just switching the compound. The current setup stops working if I do that, the tyres do not get warm and that results in tons of understeer and corner exit oversteer.

I just published the next version for the XRT CS300. It includes a new dashboard, a new base skin and improved sound configuration.
It also includes a good base setup that should be both easy to drive and very durable.

The other three cars will follow in the same manner. The RB4 will probably be next, since all that it's missing is the skin. If you're interested in a more detailed state of progress, you may refer to the todo-list in post #1, since I am keeping this up to date.

Regarding the new XRT CS300 skin: It's very basic in it's form and I know that It's just that I am not very skilled (and patient) with graphical design. The idea behind the skin is to be the default for the car, something that a manufacturer would promote the vehicle with. It's supposed to be a bit generic and replaceable.
So I think the skin serves its purpose for now and the other cars will receive similar skins.
Though, if anybody loves creating skins and has some nice ideas, feel free to contribute! I'd love to add your skins as defaults to the mod

Quote from Gutholz :

But you can update your mod without it needing to be reviewed again.

Thank you for clarifying that - I misunderstood the information on the mod update page.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

After a test drive, these “Clubsport” versions are very pleasant to drive. Just enough power to not fall asleep and force you to reach the limit. It's very stimulating.

Thank you! Yeah, that's what my impressions are as well. I tested mostly on Westhill and in South City, and I always had a blast. The cars work on large, fast circuits equally as well as on the slow, bumpy tracks. The low downforce makes them dance just the right amount to always keep it interesting.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

I would even tend to consider that all these cars would gain in charisma by being in H gearbox (I actually converted them to drive them)

I guess I am not opposed to that. Though I think the sequential gearboxes additionally separate them from their street counterparts.
I think the best course of action would be to mix it and thus have it in the following way:
XRT CS300: H-pattern
RB4 CS300: sequential
FXO CS300: H-pattern
FZ5 CS300: sequential

This way, when we're including the super tourers, we'd have the least overlap and people could effectively choose, which car and which gearbox type they want to use:

XRT
H-pattern: XRT CS300
sequential: XRT ST or XR SUPERTOURER
RB4
H-pattern: RB4 GT CLUBSPORT (AWD)
sequential: RB4 ST (AWD) or RB4 SUPERTOURER (FWD) or RB4 CS300 (RWD)
FXO
H-pattern: FXO CS300
sequential: FXO ST, FXO SUPERTOURER
FZ5
sequential: FZ5 CS300

This way the Clubsport 300 cars could actually provide a great deal of variety to the whole field. What do you think?

Last edited by Günni92, Wed, 6 Dec 2023 18:53.

Regarding the sequential gearboxes:

I see that they are not as popular as I expected them to be . I am open for discussion about changing one or more cars over to H pattern.
We could look at all cars in the "class" (Supertourer and Clubsport 300) and define, which change on the Clubsport cars would provide the most variety (e.g. we don't need multiple RB4 with sequential). I will put that on my todo-list and am open for your ideas.

Yay! The cars have already been published, thank you all for your support!
@Flame the cars have now been marked as tweak mods - thanks for the help


Of course the mods are far from ready. All of the points that have been mentioned I agree with should still be done. Many of them, e.g. skins are already in progress. Also the balancing, including with the existing super tourers, is of high priority for me.
But this stuff takes time and, as predicted in post #1, life is catching up and I am very busy. I will still devote my evening time to this project, though.

There are already many changes to the cars that are currently not published, including improved default setups, better modelling especially for the cages, better positioning of seats etc.
The published variants are already "outdated" and I will update them soon. Though because every iteration has to go through the review process again, I will not pump out version after version for minor changes, but rather wait until the next comprehensive package with major improvements is ready.

So bear with me, I will update the vehicles soon


PS.: Can anyone tell me if the previous version stays published when I upload a new mod archive? I'd love to still be able to host a server with all the cars while the next iteration is already in review.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

What do you think about the possibility of having limited setups for these cars? (If the mod system or Insim could finally allow it of course).

I think it's a great concept and it is something that I actually thought about when creating them. I discarded the idea because it is not technically possible at the moment.

While I love the process of creating setups and tuning in special behavior to the cars, I just don't have the time anymore. So I'd count myself to the "Oh, there's a race going on tonight, let's grab a car and go!"-crowd. Fixed setups (or, at least, very limited setup options) would IMO certainly help with that. There are so many combinations of cars and tracks now that I do not feel motivated to create good setups for the ones I'm gonna use.

So yeah, great idea in my opinion and I'd definitely support that. It'd just be important that the base setups are good and that basic modification of things like final drive, wheel alignment, brake balance (in sane limits) etc. is still allowed, so everybody can still fit the cars to their driving style.

Quote from Eclipsed :

All these cars should be marked as "tweaked" - these are standard LFS cars with changed (tweaked) parameters.

Agreed. Though I am unable to find the option to change it - could you point it out to me?

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

If this was grouped on a dedicated server with a "ready to race" mode [...]

This is exactly what I want to ultimately achieve. I love the idea of a server with all these cars (including the existing ones that were suggested in this thread). That would provide a great variety of drivetrains, engines and their sound and driving characteristics. It could be great for drivers and viewers as well.

So I did some testing with the super tourers and came to the conclusion that the clubsport cars become compatible if I limit the engine power to ~300 HP. I also changed the tyre size to reduce overall grip levels, from 255/35R18 9J to 245/35R18 8.5J.
Based on the new horsepower figure, I think it'd be nice to call the class Clubsport 300 or CS300 in short

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

On the other hand, even if I understand the choice of the sequential gearbox, it would be nice to have a little choice too with a H gearbox.

Yeah, I totally agree. Though I believe it's not possible to give the choice between the two gearbox types via setup. I this case I guess one gearbox type has to win and that would be the sequential. But we could create a derivative mod with the H pattern gearbox

Quote from versiu :

And there's this: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods?user=Nanex

Wow, thank you for that contribution. What Nanex built is extremely close to what I want to achieve.

Quote from hooligan_rallyteam :

There is Clubsport spec (and its awesome) https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/618222
Maybe trophy or cup will be better 😉

Yeah, probably. I do not know that much about IRL racing classes and reglements. The Clubsport name was just something that popped into my head and a quick search confirmed that it broadly fits to what I want to do




So, I think I need to reach some sort of conclusion. As pointed out, there are already several cars that fit the bill, so theoretically one would just have to create a server with them and we should have the kind of racing that my mods are planned to provide. Which is awesome to know, so thank you for your contributions!
I am unsure now though if creating my planned mods would only needlessly clutter the LFS mod library or if it'd still be a valuable contribution?

One thing is sure though, we should create a server, enable the aforementioned mods and take them for a spin! If nothing, this thread brought to (my? ) knowledge there are some cars that are already compatible

Thats a great suggestion. I am definitely open to checking if I could align the clubsport variants so that they're balanced with the existing SUPERTOURER class. This could add even more variance to races

The super tourers are less powerful, but also even lighter. I'll have to do some testing and tweaking.

For reference you could also use BMW's official drawings of the compact, as seen in the catalog. It even includes some necessary measurements:

https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=477579
(see last page)

Hi!

I very much like the three street turbos, but I think the gap between the stock cars and the race variants is huge. So I am planning to create "Clubsport" variants of them, bringing the grip and power up, but still keeping them closer to stock. I also want to add the FZ5 to the lineup.

The first tests turned out very promising, I had great fun throwing them around the track. They are already very diverse in the way they handle and the lap times are already close. Still, one of the big tasks that lies ahead is creating a good baseline with the setups and fine tuning the balance between the cars.

Let's talk a bit about the cars. Keep in mind that everything is work in progress and subject to change. I am also open for discussion on the specifics, if anyone is interested.

They are race-ready variants of the street cars. They come with slick tyres, a sequential gearbox with ignition cut and slight weight reduction. They also all have a pit speed limiter, a shift light and traction control.

To also add more diversity for the ears, each car has a completely new engine. The engines range from four to six cylinders and from 2.0 litres to 3.2 litres. The current technical specifications can be seen in the following table:



This is my current todo list:

• work out base setups that drive well and do not eat tyres
  • XRT CS300 (✓)
    
  • FXO CS300 ✓
    
  • RB4 CS300 ✓
    
  • FZ5 CS300 ✓
    
• functional interior work: update clusters to show shift lights, pit limiter etc.
  • XRT CS300 ✓
    
  • FXO CS300
    
  • RB4 CS300 ✓
    
  • FZ5 CS300 ✓
    
• visual interior work: add roll cages, race seats, steering wheels, shifters
  • XRT CS300 ✓
    
  • FXO CS300 ✓
    
  • RB4 CS300 ✓
    
  • FZ5 CS300 ✓
    
• improve car sounds, balanced in loudness and overall pleasant to listen to
  • XRT CS300 ✓
    
  • FXO CS300 ✓
    
  • RB4 CS300 ✓
    
  • FZ5 CS300 ✓
    
• create base skin
  • XRT CS300 ✓
    
  • FXO CS300
    
  • RB4 CS300
    
  • FZ5 CS300
    
• re-balance the cars by slightly tweaking weight, power
  
• test, work out quirks, get feedback
  

What do you think about the idea? I'd love to hear any feedback, suggestions
Will update this post when further progress is made, but this can be infrequent (life and stuff)

Cheers!


_____________

• XRT CS300 (last updated 06 Dec 2023)
  
• FXO CS300 (last updated 29 Nov 2023)
  
• RB4 CS300 (last updated 19 Dec 2023)
  
• FZ5 CS300 (last updated 19 Dec 2023)
  

Last edited by Günni92, Wed, 20 Dec 2023 16:40. Reason : update todo list;

This is awesome! I own one of these IRL, so if you need any information / measurements, feel free to ask!

Hello everyone,

so very recently I acquired a very decent screen, an ASUS VG27AQ, which supports a refresh rate of 100 Hz. This should be perfect for playing LFS, since 100 Hz should play very nicely with the physics core refresh rate, right? So smooth gameplay, here I come! Or so I thought.

Principially, the theory has been proven to be correct. The gameplay is crazy smooth. Now here comes the BUT. Sadly, every few seconds the view begins to stutter for a short period. Overall i'd say around 10% of gameplay is stuttering. I can't, for the life of me, get these stutters away. If you look at the timing indicator on the screenshot (see attachment), it seems that physics and graphics go out of sync? So in the end, there is one frame with two physics steps, followed by an "empty frame", which just results in the same image being generated again.

I tried every possible combination of vsync, gsync, full screen, windowed borderless, fullscreen exclusive (see https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93199).. you name it. Also every possible combination of LFS settings (buffered frames, frame cap, lowest settings, ...)

My computer is more than capable to run LFS at more than 500 FPS (@2560x1440), the CPU is sleeping at 13%, LFS resides on an SSD, I have only one screen active (Windows is too stupid to properly handle two screens with different refresh rates, even if one is 50 Hz and the other 100 Hz).

I still can't get the stutter away.


Does anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong? It really keeps me from enjoying this magnificient sim at the moment.

Thank you for your feedback, I have to say that I completely get where you came from. I listened to the video with my headphones on and suddenly everything sounded like it always did.

And this is where I am completely confused now. If I listen to it via the living room speakers, the FZR onboard sounds like a vacuum. If I listen to the video on my phone, it also does sounds like a vacuum onboard.

But with the headphones everything is as I know it, interior is a bit muffled but the sound scape is basically the same.

How is this possible. Am I going deaf? Very confused now, definitely seems to be a technical issue, not an LFS bug.

Hello,

I have a weird issue - as soon as I use one of the two interior cameras, some cars begin to sound really flat. I made a quick video so you can see what I am talking about:



This began a few months ago. Today I did a complete fresh install of LFS, but still - FXO/FXR, FZR sound very un-beefy. I haven't tested all cars, can do if needed.

I tried:

• Fresh install
  
• Change audio output (Onboard sound, HDMI to screen)
  
• Switch speakers (Living Room speakers, headphones)
  
• Fiddle around in Shift + A menu
  

But since it is also picked up by the recorder, it can't be the speakers anyway.

The weird thing about this is that it's cross instance - every LFS installation I have has this. Which rules out a bug from a new version and also the possibility of currupt game files.

Are there any game files LFS stores and accesses globally (across installations)?

Anyway, it's a weird one - any help is greatly appreciated.

Quote from Evolution_R :

So try with 50Hz with vsync on and enjoy!

It has nothing to do with exclusive full screen mode.

It seems that you are right, I tried it and the jitter is gone. I am very glad that my monitor natively supports the 50Hz refresh rate. At the same time it is a bit sad to see that the graphics are bound to the physics step that closely. I am also wondering as to why this issue isn't more commonly known, on the other hand I have many friends who just aren't bothered by unsmoothness or screen tearing.

Thanks for the fast replies, I am still a bit unsure about the system volume bar being drawn over a "fullscreen exclusive" LFS though. That's not, what full screen exclusive is meant to be - and opens up a wide range of issues that can be had in the future.

-> While writing this reply I found the solution: It's some stupid optimization Windows 10 does (I run on 1803): It automatically applies so-called "full screen optimizations" to any app, which is supposed to reduce Alt-Tab times and the likes. But that's also the reason, why the full screen mode was not really "exclusive".
(Temporary) Solution: Right-Click LFS.exe, go to Properties->Compatibility and tick "disable fullscreen optimizations" [Source: https://mspoweruser.com/tip-fu ... e-performance-windows-10/]

The only question I ask myself, why, just why do they always have to add new stuff and enable it by default...
Again thanks for your help

Thanks for your reply. I tried every possible combination.
Exclusive full screen is, as far as my knowledge goes, by definition the most jitter-free mode.
I am used to playing any game in this mode, synced to 60FPS. While you can argue about input lag and so on, the thing that matters for me is frame consistency - which is crucial for racing.

The problem I am facing is, that LFS "ecxlusive full screen" doesn't seem that exclusive after all (on Windows 10).

You can try it yourself: Go into free camera mode (shift + u), move the camera up a bit and let it face straight down. Now move it with the arrow keys. Butter smooth or jittery?

Is it planned to add a supersampling option for normal desktop users as well?

Hello,
I noticed that LFS does not seem to enter the exclusive full screen mode (Shift+F10) correctly anymore.

A bit of backstory: Whenever I play (any game), I tend to play in full screen mode, because I notice the micro-lags (or jittering) any windowed mode causes (due to triple buffering, I believe).

I can't remember having any problems before, but LFS is jittery for me, even in full screen mode. All in all it feels more like borderless window, because if I, for example, change system volume via keyboard, the volume bar from windows is drawn over LFS - which just shouldn't happen, since I'm supposed to be in fullscreen exclusive.

Sadly these micro-jitters really bug me and I can't drive a clean lap with them.
My system should be more than capable at running synced 60FPS. It shouldn't be a performance issue. GPU and screen drivers are up to date.

I attached two screenshots. You can view my settings there.
Please notice the overlaid volume bar in the top left and the unevenness in the graph that shows the GPU timings.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Additional Data:
- LFS version is 0.6U
- GPU is an Nvidia 560ti

092, Daniel Günther, Günni92, hirsch.racing

092, Daniel Günther, Günni92, hirsch.racing

92, Daniel Günther, Günni92, hirsch.racing

Your Name: Daniel Günther
Your LFS Licence: Günni92
Team Name: hirsch.racing
Driver Number: 92
Car Selection: XFG
Nation: Germany

I think the LX8 totally works without the wings. It just needs slicks!
For making the video, I drove it with the current 0.6E physics. And it is totally driveable, but challenging. Perfect fun.

i'd totally want it.