Quote from pro441 :

I know who(which) needs to rest(support) on x or, but when I puts OK, he(she,it) puts no circuit.... No track

A l'écran de sélection de circuit, reste appuyé sur control et là tu verras "X" et "Y" apparaitre dans la liste de choix. Reste appuyé et clique dessus

Quote from EQ Worry :

Hahaha, yes, sure, that's also an option. I could only suggest the custom layout track names to start at number 10, so that KY4, KY5, AS8, AS9 are open for developers in case they one day decide to make some of the custom tracks official.

That's a very good point, you can even push the reasoning forward :

10 to 19 for the tracks that use the open configuration AS1X (first pitlane).

20 to 29 for the tracks that use the open configuration AS2X (second pitlane).

Quote from Forbin :

*not too soft, not too stiff, maybe a slight bias toward understeer or oversteer based on driver preference, plus reasonable damper rates based on spring rate and driving style requirements. Bob Smith's VHPA can help a lot with determining an appropriate spring rate (based upon the desired frequency) and the critical damping rate.

That's how I tune my setup as well, the handling is great and seems a lot less other-worldish than some of the WR setups.

Even though they may be slower in an absolute way, I think they stick more to real life setups.

Quote from BlueFlame :

You are correct, but you have to admit, Oil spillages would be awesome, although considering it happens quite rarely, to implement it into the game when a driver may never experience or see it wouldn't really be worth making, unless it didn't take much time at all to implement.

I will admit they would be an excellent addition to be in game. I can understand the appeal for league racers even though I don't really participate in leagues myself.

I just want the new tires physics for the moment though, he he ! Even though I'm very excited by the new patch release which is going to give me something to chew on while I wait. I'm especially excited by trying the new triple hairpin on FE green/black this will provide ! (and the 800 objets layout which can allow for nice tracks).

Quote from smove :

The stages idea is brilliant! - "The Need For Speed" (1995) anyone?

Anyway, I found another Aston variant. Could be a bit tricky regarding pit entry/exit, though.

Instead of using the long red pit lane, you could use the short pitlan in the middle of the track, by having barriers that make a 180° turn at the upper part of it, they would bring people on the outside of the corner, far from the racing line.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Would love a game to simulate oil.. Would make it alot more tense, on league races especially, also, mechanical failures (obviously would have to be implemented anyway to simulate oil spillage) would make LFS easily the best sim out there.

I think this is getting into way too much detail. When developping a product, especiaclly a simulation, I beleive it is more appropriate to go for the 80-20 rule.

Develop things that will take only 20% of your total development time and will provide 80% of the consumer experience. I beleive this oiil spillage model would take way too much time compared to what it'd bring to people that are really interested in it.

Scawen's upcoming patch is a good illustration of the 80-20 rule. It appears to be a patch that has been relatively not time consuming, but it's going to bring hours and hours of fun while he can finish the physics.

Another good example of the 80-20 rule would be remodeling the car sounds. I am unsure it would be extremely time consuming (even though I'd expect something around 2 months of 2-3 man-work-hours), but it would bring a lot more to the game.

That's some awesome news Scawen !

I really wasn't expecting that kind of update, but I am really excited about it. I can't wait to try that mini-oval on Fern Bay !

Thanks a lot again

Quote from dadge :

so, you have the right to tell us to shut up, but we don't have the right to talk? no matter how silly YOU may find the conversation?

I think you have some paranoid tendancies. When did I tell you you didn't have the right to talk?

I was just suggesting you stop attracting attention to yourself.

Seriously, can't you guys just stop to try being right ? How about someone proves he's smarter and just stops everything here ?

The first one to do that gets +215 internet credits.

Quote from Ingolf :

Sadly this is the human nature to undeveloped individuals.

I think this quote says enough about your open-mindedness and your ability to comprehend other people's opinion.

Way to go

Quote from djfatrod :

I'm not your buddy, guy!

And I'm not your guy, friend !

Quote from dadge :

you seem to have missed my point. even though i have posted it many times already. those two guys want more added to LFS. but they have done so little with the current content. i've asked them simple questions to see if they have tried out certain things in LFS. none of them answered. one of those guys has only ever done 6 online laps @ KY GP and 0 @ KY GP Rev. this is the same guy who said he's bored with LFS. this is just one example of their unwillingness to give the current content a proper chance.
in a restaurant, the food is the product. made by a small group of people. LFS is also a product. made by a small group of people.

EDIT: i deleted the first line of my post. thought you said apologising. my bad for skimming through :s

Still, I don't see why it should be mandatory to explore the entire content to suggest something more than isn't in LFS yet.

For example, LFS doesn't have V8 road cars, nor does it have historic cars (not real brands, but similar to an old school alpine or DB5).
LFS neither has uphill races nor karting tracks. You don't need to play through the entire LFS to notice they aren't there, and that you may want it.

I am not sure if they detailed what they wanted, and I don't have time to check each of their posts. Perhaps they didn't mention exactly what they were looking after because they didn't want to get flamed.
If I ask for a road rally track akin to the Tour de Corse or some Japanese mountain road, I'm sure to get flamed as a ricerguy, so I don't mention that anymore. I just ask for more content.

Quote from rockclan :

Mate? Since when am I your mate? I'm not your mate?

I'm not your mate, buddy !

Quote from dadge :

@ZEN i understand theses two kids points of view and that's why i posted mine. how many times have you gone to a restaurant , ordered the soup and after that you go on to tell the chef that he needs a better menu with more on it.

I would suggest avoiding making analogies that are bad, but that's just my opinion.

You can't compare a restaurant to LFS. A restaurant is a business, LFS is a product.

Let me rephrase that analogy which would make it comparable.

Quote :

How many times have you gone to a restaurant, ordered the soup and after that you go on to tell the chef that he would benefit from adding a couple ingredients to make the soup better (or more to your taste) ?

Well, it really depends how often a week I go to the restaurant, whether I'm on a business trip or not, but I often tell the waiter to tell the chef that I enjoyed his dish but I would have appreciated it with a little more ginger, for example.
I do that A LOT for cocktails I order.

Call me posh if you want, but suggesting is the key driver to innovation. If everyone kept telling Coco Chanel "Cloths are meant to be this way and that's it so stfu", girls today would not be wearing miniskirts (can you imagine that, seriously ? I'd kill myself right away !)

Dadge, I think your correlation between "playing the entire game" and being allowed to ask for more content is irrelevant.

They paid for the product, they use it the way they want, and since it's an online forum, they are entitled to request whatever they want.

If you still want to reason in terms of numbers of different combos played, fine, let's have a little game and ask ourselves more questions.
Can you answer the following :
- Why would people not play on all the combos ?
- Why would people request more specific cars to play with ?
- Why would people request additional tracks to race on ?

Once you've answered these questions, then we can start debating. You really can't have a constructive discussion if you don't even try to understand the other guys' point of view.

Quote from Xenix74 :

I Thrust the Devs.

Perhaps if you spent less time thrusting them, they would develop the game faster

Quote from Bob Smith :

What I find more worrying is why we couldn't of had at least content patches in the meantime. Sure Rockingham, Scirocco and other surprises have to wait, but the existing models and textures could have been polished to a shine by now. So the question is either, why couldn't they be released, or why haven't they been done? We've had nice updates to tracks and interiors before, why can't we again to tide over the community until Scawen has something for us?

There may be several answers to that question, all of which are nothing but speculation going on :

- Technical issues : Perhaps the tire model tweaking require modifications to the code of cars and to the different models linked to geometry of the tires/wheels for example. As such, to prevent making an updated model compatible with both LFS and the tire simulator, you'd need to put twice the same amount of work in tweaking the car, which would be less productive than waiting to release that in a compatible bundle with the new physics.

- Bundling arbitrage : I've read several times that a single-track and 2 cars (the 'Roc and the unknown car) felt not sufficient to justify the £12 for S3. As such, they may have decided to bundle the new content addition with S3 to improve the perceived deal by the prospective customers, while waiting to release upgades to the current track at the same time as S3 goes live to incease the impact of the new version.

- HR discrepancies : Perhaps there has been some disagreement among Scavier, or perhaps each dev have lost its leverage on the development speed of his co-workers, resulting in a counter emulation which has slowed down the content development.

- Business-model adaptation : Maybe Scavier has found a way to expand their business with LFS, and as such are proceeding to adapt their existing processes to the new requirements of these changes. It may include new payment-model, new server structure, new content upgrades, etc.


These are the most reasonable business-based changes I could think of considering Scavier's situation and due to the lack of information we have got about the company so far. None of these is terribly threatening for the company, but it may explain (partly) the reasons of the slow development speed.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Sounds too much Grand Turismo-ish to me. But well, why not, could be interresting if you ever get it real. At least the project is original to say the least.

That said the whole thing sounds so damn complicated IMO, it'd represent an enormous amount of work, at the end of the day what people want is bring the cars on the road and race.

Thank you for the time you've taken !

I am conscious about the weight of the organisation needed to make it work, which is why the events would be planned once a month to begin with.
Additionnally, I want to make sure some people are interested (hence this thread) before I get into organizing such an ambitious project.

Hello fellow racers !

I need your help and feedback about a little league concept I've had, to see whether it may find decent echo within the community, and whether it is worth considering starting the project. I'll try to keep very simple so that you can see the outlines of the project, and as such provide me with your enlightened insight about it.

If I can summarize it in a few words the league would be themed after a Sports Car Owners Club

How would that league work ? Basically, instead of having races for points like other leagues are doing so well, the score would be determined by credits.

What are credits and how would they fit in the concept

Basically, credits allow you to do 2 things :
- Buy cars.
- Buy upgrades for the cars.

Buying cars and upgrades ? What do you mean?!

When they register for the league, the drivers will be given a specific amount of credits. For the sake of the example, let's say that amount is £40,000.

They will specify which car they decide to buy, and the garage set up will be the following :
- The available cars will be : XRT, FXO, RB4, LX4, LX6, RAC, FZ5.
- Each car will have a specific price tag (TBOs will be less expensive than LRFs).

The setups for the cars will be restricted, and based on road-legalish setups, feeling like a brand stock car freshly out of the retailer

Members of the league will be able to purchase upgrades for the cars. What does that mean ?
It means, that, in exchange of part of their credits, they will be able to modify their setups.

However ! The modifications allowed on the setups will be very restricted. Which means that instead of buying the ability to modify your setup, you will only be able to buy "parts" with specific setup settings.

Example time ! You have been given £40,000 for joining the Sports Cars Owners Club. With that amount you decide :
- to buy an XRT : -£27,000.

You do have £13,000 left on your account. You are unsatisfied with the XRT's suspension system. Indeed, the stock setup has got the following values (let's reduce the example to the rear suspension).
Stiffness : 30
Bump : 2.5
Rebound : 5.5

You would like to improve your car. As such, you would pay credits for having a better suspension system. For example, there will be two choices
- Suspension A : Stiff : 50 / Bump : 3.5 / Rebound : 7.2 / Price : £3000
- Suspension B : Stiff : 70 / Bump : 4.5 / Rebound : 9 / Price : £5500

As such, the different setups will be standardized, and the upgrades on them as well.
This would apply to many different setup options, but to keep things "simple" we would package the upgrades. (example : suspension, tires, differential and gearbox, etc...)

Alright, I get it you want to make me pay, but how do I earn credits ?

It's very simple ! The credits will be earned through attending and participating in the different events organized by the SCOC !

Each venue will be based on a "trackday", which is quite a lengthy event (around 3 hours). Gladly, the event is broken down in different activities :
- Show off your car : Park it and let the drivers admire your painting.
- Multiclass racing : All cars are welcomed in the event and compete against each other. Fortunately, we will have ways to balance the TBOs and the LRF to an extent at the beginning of the league.
- Class-based racing : The classes will be determined by the number of credits spent into a car. So, for example, both people who spent £40,000 but differently (on different cars and setups) will be in the same class, while people who have borth spent £80,000 will be together in another class.
- Special event/feature event : We plan to have each layout unique and allow for special event. Should it be A-to-B duels, Drift, competition, Enduro, each venue will have a very special flavour.
- Advertising event : We will gladly invite different well-known LFS teams to showcase their skills in specific events.

Depending on your rank on each event, you will be given credits. We plan on making this system quite casual, so that everyone is able to get credit for his/her participation.

What is the goal of this ''league" ?

Our goal is to create a socializing event for LFS, where not only players can get to know each other, but can also create connection with their machine over the long run, building themselves a reputation, and so forth !

How often will the SCOC trackdays take place ?

Since it requires quite a lengthy organization, we plan on having a venue per month to begin with. This leaves us time to register each person's wallet and garage, as well as creating interesting layouts to have each event unique, while still reducing the load on the schedule of our busiest members.

Time to post your thoughts !

We will appreciate any criticism, positive or negative, as long as it remains constructive !
We would rather have you debate on the concept itself rather than about logistical issues, as if this idea appeals to players, we will find solutions to make it possible.

Thank you for your attention !

Quote from RasmusL :

This is truly turning into a major problem.
I'm not one to whine, and I have plenty of things to spend my time on besides LFS. But when I take out some time to log onto LFS, mostly I see the top 4 of 6 servers are cruise servers. Outside the top 6, there's <10 players online.
The other top 2 servers are the ONLY servers that are actually populated at a given time with real racers.

I miss the diversity of public servers The only way to get some good racing with LFS today is private leagues, but I'm too busy for that.

I think it is partly due to LFS structure as a game. It is halfway between a sandbox game (layouts, InSim, the freedom of skins and setups) and halfway between a set-in-stone game (fixed number of cars, fixed tracks, etc).

As such, it's hard for the players to find new stuff to do in game. It's hard partly because developing an innovating InSim require quite a bit of ressources to provide something fresh to the players.

I think it's up to the players to make up some fresh new content for the game (given what's available today). Instead of doing "me too" servers and ideas, like every drift team having its own server for example (no offense ), players should try and find innovative way to freshen the content of the game.

Hehe TVE, I know your intentions are honorable, but please do not do anything that may restart the "We need more information/No, it will divert ressources from development" flame war that will last for 20 pages again.

Quote from K.David :

I long quit LFS for reasons I shall not disclose to avoid people mistaking me for your average whiner but I do check the home page and the forum for signs of progress. And it's not like I'd want my ten minutes that I waste every month back.

Anyway, I have a theory. The premise is that Scavier had to sign a contract to get the Scirocco and Rockingham, which would mean that they'd be liable to pay whatever sum for a breach of contract if they completely stopped working on LFS and never released the above things, right? Don't get me wrong, I don't want the devs to face legal consequences, I'm just implying that maybe this can be understood as a guarantee that we will see progress? Because right now the most important question for me is not when they'll update the game but if they ever will.

It really depends what the terms of the contract were. If I recall correctly, the deal for the VWS was that Scavier would be able to use the model and VW's data as long as they could offer a playable version for GamesCom 2008 for VW to host the contest to win a Scirocco.

For Rockingham, perhaps the track wanted a playable version to use on their clubhouse, and allow Scavier to use it once it has been completed.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Not really an unknown reason at all..... it's historically the day of the week that patches and/or test patches have been released. Doesn't mean that that is a hard & fast rule though.

"Hard and fast" idiom to only be taken in context of course.

I always thought the test patches were released on Mondays ?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Sigh, I think you know better than the latter part of that statement.

Just enjoy the fact that there isn't a contant stream of fresh BS for a change.

I second BBT's statement here. The constant flow of randomness was getting uncool.

Awesome work, the pictures are brilliant, and very close to what you'd expect in a car magazine !

As always for you, 10/10