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Spinoff : Y30 class balancing
(55 posts, started )
I have done a little racing on Y30 this morning, and although I am not by any means an XRT master (far from it) the RB4 seems to be quite a bit quicker, even on a track like Blackwood......
Sorry for suggestion:

Scawen, Could you put an option to change the driver's position in the garage?
Just ran a few laps in the BabyR, certainly sems a lot more planted although bashing the higher kerbs at FE2R will still end up with you the wrong way up.

Car feels 10x better though
Quote from El_TaxMaN :Sorry for suggestion:

Scawen, Could you put an option to change the driver's position in the garage?

No, because it's a driver setting and you're not supposed to switch the position back and forth depending on the current track.
I made a large race with the Turbos in Westhill with 19 AIs and the lap times were very close, none car seemed to be faster than other, so balance is perfect. I will continue testing anyway (My personal lap times were also very close with the 3 cars)
#31 - JJ72
AI ain't accurate, at least in my experience they don't know how to exploit the traction of the RB4 very well, and they tend to bunch up, the car behind can't really run their true pace.
#32 - troy
we're online testing some TBO balancing on the "[url="lfs://|T7R%7CTeamserver|0|S2|/"]T7R|Teamserver[/url]" now [url="lfs://|T7R%7CTeamserver|0|S2|/"]
[/url]
Some top class races, personally, I bloody LOVE the XRT now
XRT rulz.

YouTube video...
I think it is safe to say that the FXO has been knocked off the the top of the hill. The RB4's rear is not so disconnected anymore, and the XRT...oh, how I love this car now! Oversteer is as predictable as the XRG's.
I've heard that someone said that FXO has less power now. I was on TBO balancing server and since I sow like everyone drives XRT and someone RB4 I picked up FXO so we can compare. Most of those drivers were on my skill level, I think
FXO's tires rly helped me in first 2/3 laps to get my positions back and take few more. And then later they go up to 85C. We drove only 6 laps, I assume they would get to 90C if there's more laps (just like in old patch). I did my best laps with hot tires, because there was no so much traffic going on and lap times were just slightly faster then XRT's.
Somehow I have feeling that FXO understeared less then it used in old patch, but that might be setup too.
Quote from N I K I :Somehow I have feeling that FXO understeared less then it used in old patch, but that might be setup too.

In fact the FXO is unchanged and you can prove this - you can download a replay from LFS World and it will still run on your new version without going OOS, proving the car is not changed.

I'm pleased that the RB4 and XRT have got better. I know the FXO was still the class leader and it's interesting that those small changes have made such a difference.
rb4 understeers like hell and eats front tires for breakfast now... or I'm just too stupid for a decent setup
I drove the XRR on FE Black in both Game versions using the exact same setup. What i can say until now is that in Y30 the car behaves much nicer than before. This Spin-Happyness has changed to an easy to handle oversteer. The back of the car doesnt spin out that easy as it did in Y.
But on the other Hand the general setup became more understeering. so in midspeed corners the car understeers much more and it feels like the car became more unwilling to turn into the corner, with the side effect that XRR now eats front tires much more than it did before.
Also the car now wants to slide with the rear when breaking the car out of high speeds straights into low speed corners.

that were my first impressions - further testing will go on.

ps. i realy dislike the digital turbo gauge. the analog one was much better, but thats my opinion
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(ussbeethoven) DELETED by ussbeethoven
that understeer is very much noticeable! Maybe it is'tn bad to included new RACE_S setups in a new patch..
Tested GTT today. Well, TBH, it didn't felt nicer, nor faster anyhow. At first there was some understeer, so I changed susp. a bit accordingly. And it was pretty much the same XRT i've known for years. In 25 laps i couldn't even beat my own PB.

But ok, I've decided to be fair here and compare time with FXO. I grabbed FXO set from inferno (which seemed quite outdated), jumped in the car, and on my 2nd lap ever lap on that combo (!) I managed to beat my XRT time by 0.5 seconds. At the same time FXO was much easier to drive too. IMO, that's a really huge difference. FXO is just in another class now (even with Y30 changes).

I think XRT actually needs to be faster (at WR level), as it is harder to drive. Average racer will drive both cars equally fast this way. That's how it was with GT and GTi in S1 days (and now pretty much too) and it worked (works) really well i think.
#42 - arco
Quote from danowat :I have done a little racing on Y30 this morning, and although I am not by any means an XRT master (far from it) the RB4 seems to be quite a bit quicker, even on a track like Blackwood......

I actually find the RB4 a tiny bit slower now. I've been hotlapping FE1r a little in my spare time the last days. With Y my best time is 46.04, and I can pretty easily go under 46.20. With Y30, my best time so far is 46.18, and it's quite harder to do the same splits as in Y.
Small GTR class
I did some laps with these cars.
This is a first impression so i might be wrong.

XFR. lovely handling,new gearbox suits the car just fine.
BUT. compared to UFR it tends to me more willing to roll over.
IMO the CoG should be lowerd slightly on the XFR.lets say 5 more.
XFR imo has become the most "Flipwilling" car in this class.

The UFR is just glued to the track now and is very nice to push to the edge.

We use these cars in a cup so im pretty used to them.
and i used same setups as i use in Y,too notice the diffrens better.

anyone else share my opinion on this?
i will try to test more but this is as i said my first impression.

/Mikael Dalin
Some tests, using Pro AI in both XFR and UFR. 3 lap race at one config of each track, average of all 3 lap times taken as result.

--- BL1R ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 1:26.92
Lap 2 - 1:20.69
Lap 3 - DNF (Rolled on second-last corner)
Average - DNF (But can be taken to be 1:23.80)

UFR: Lap 1 - 1:27.49
Lap 2 - 1:20.62
Lap 3 - 1:20.46
Average - 1:22.85
------------

--- SO6 ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 1:16.87
Lap 2 - 1:10.07
Lap 3 - 1:10.04
Average - 1:12.32

UFR: Lap 1 - 1:18.07
Lap 2 - 1:11.69
Lap 3 - 1:10.65
Average - 1:13.47
-----------

--- FE3 ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 1:40.46
Lap 2 - 1:30.68
Lap 3 - 1:30.70
Average - 1:33.94

UFR: Lap 1 - 1:38.01
Lap 2 - 1:30.73
Lap 3 - 1:30.69
Average - 1:33.14
-----------

--- AU3 ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 0:13.41
Lap 2 - 0:13.32
Lap 3 - 0:13.50
Average - 0:13.41

UFR: Lap 1 - 0:13.37
Lap 2 - 0:13.56
Lap 3 - 0:13.58
Average - 0:13.50
-----------

--- KY3R ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 2:49.01
Lap 2 - 2:41.45
Lap 3 - 2:41.54
Average - 2:44.00

UFR: Lap 1 - 2:49.58
Lap 2 - 2:41.49
Lap 3 - 2:42.74
Average - 2:44.60
------------

[url="file:///R:/Program%20Files/LFS/LFS-Y30/data/spr/KY3R.spr"][/url]--- WE1 ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 1:58.17
Lap 2 - 1:51.09
Lap 3 - 1:51.39
Average - 1:53.55

UFR: Lap 1 - 1:58.68
Lap 2 - 1:50.87
Lap 3 - 1:51.70
Average - 1:53.75
------------

--- AS1 ---
XFR: Lap 1 - 1:00.58
Lap 2 - 0:55.01
Lap 3 - 0:55.20
Average - 0:56.93

UFR: Lap 1 - 1:01.60
Lap 2 - 0:56.30
Lap 3 - 0:55.72
Average - 0:57.87
------------

Total Averages:
XFR - 1:25.42
UFR - 1:25.59

IMO, the difference between them is so minimal, trying to get them to within 0.01 of each other isn't worth the time it would take. The UFR is also more reliable, as shown in BL, where the XFR rolled on a corner, but the UFR stayed planted, presumably because of the lower CoG.

I hope these tests are of some help to you anyway

[OT] The new-type rendering from Y24 is the biz. Running everything up full, even full AA/AF, my FPS never went below 100 while testing at south city with the 2 cars. Fantastic idea Scawen [/OT]

Replays of all except FE and AU attached. AU, there's no need (it's a straight line :rolleyes, and FE I forgot to save it
Attached files
Replays.rar - 1.1 MB - 521 views
#45 - arco
Quote from arco :I actually find the RB4 a tiny bit slower now. I've been hotlapping FE1r a little in my spare time the last days. With Y my best time is 46.04, and I can pretty easily go under 46.20. With Y30, my best time so far is 46.18, and it's quite harder to do the same splits as in Y.

Update: Softening the suspension stiffness seems to help getting it closer to Y lap times, and more consistent similar times. 46.09 as of now.
Quote from Scawen :If you click on "susp" view in the garage or press shift+L in-game you can see the suspension geometry. I don't know if that helps with what you want.

No, not really. What I want is the actual numbers of the coordinates so I can analyze the suspension. It's not necessary, but it would be fun for some of us car geeks to be able to do that.

Then we could get graphs for camber compensation, roll center movement and so on.
Quote from arco :Update: Softening the suspension stiffness seems to help getting it closer to Y lap times, and more consistent similar times. 46.09 as of now.

slightly different car needs slightly different setup

last week i've been messing around with XRT, building setup from scratch. So i knew exactly how it behaves before Y30. Now when the patch is out, car's balance went a bit to the front so i had to adjust rear suspension a bit to have that planted front end and a bit loose rear end again. And now it feels like there's more overall grip. I can put power down earlier and the car is more predictable and controlable. It should make XRT more popular and of course faster if it's in proper hands.
Quote from Easy_Mike :I did some laps with these cars.
This is a first impression so i might be wrong.

XFR. lovely handling,new gearbox suits the car just fine.
BUT. compared to UFR it tends to me more willing to roll over.
IMO the CoG should be lowerd slightly on the XFR.lets say 5 more.
XFR imo has become the most "Flipwilling" car in this class.

The UFR is just glued to the track now and is very nice to push to the edge.

We use these cars in a cup so im pretty used to them.
and i used same setups as i use in Y,too notice the diffrens better.

anyone else share my opinion on this?
i will try to test more but this is as i said my first impression.

/Mikael Dalin

I think we don't want to have all cars behaving like F1 all glued to the track, that would be easy to drive but then you would drive a car IRL and you'd slip. As long as the two of them are equally fast and realistic i think thats what really matters.
you can change the position of the driver from options! this is a irrelivant request. i want the Z version to be out soon and not want people like you askin for points improvements.. new cars are a big part on the suggestion section and hope thish patch Z is out soon. Let scawen get on with programming and stop posting junk for him to wade through..
this is not directly related to the current balancing but more of a realism inconsistency that also affects the class balance
imho now that the xfr has gone through all the trouble of putting a sequential box with ignition cut in there the ufr should at least have an unsyncronized h gate which allows shifting without using the clutch to make the class more believeable as race tuned road cars

Spinoff : Y30 class balancing
(55 posts, started )
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