I think the main difference between simracing and real life is the feedback that you get from the car. After years of simracing (mainly Grand Prix Legends) I was nearly overwhelmed by the huge amount and especially of the immediacy of the feedback, when I tried my first meters in a race car (slalom). It is not comparable to a street car because of the different car setup, so it took me some time to make use of the new experience. But now I think driving in real live is much more easy because you can react a lot faster than in simracing, where you first have to learn the "6th sense" for what the car is doing.
But at all the behaviour of the car is the same, LFS does a very correct job in simulating car physics.

Oh, and of course I have a replay (it was a training day on the kart track in Oschersleben, so we were allowed to drive with passengers. So I was able to try an onboard video but I have canceled after 23 seconds because it was too hard to keep the camera still). More pictures (and information, but in german) can be found here.

kind regards
Soeren

Edit: That's me

Quote from orange_boy_uk :

Ford Focus is a great handling FWD car, one of the best in it's class for handling. I never knew people actualy brought them LFS t'shirts :P

It's decent, here is the reigning king for FWD's in both handling and acceleration from the factory. The Super Mini is right behind it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/0 ... track-day-dodge-srt4-acr/

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

It's decent, here is the reigning king for FWD's in both handling and acceleration from the factory. The Super Mini is right behind it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/0 ... track-day-dodge-srt4-acr/

I would rather have a Ford Focus RS.

That's not FWD, though :P

Quote from JJ72 :

One of the things I realize after pausing LFS for a while is how hard we all drive in the sim, in real life you never do such thing in a road car, first you rarely have the equipment and conditions in real life to push for the ultimate limit, and second there's just too much a price to pay if you stuff it up.

I drive in LFS like I do in real life, although it is just a game I hate coming off the track (mostly because FF shakes the shit out of my desk which spills my coffee), so it means I have a huge handicap when I race online.

LOL at german person in a french car. The saxo/106 has the single worst chassis I've experienced. I don't care how many valves the VTS has or how much peak horsepower it has, it'll always be worse than a bag full of smashed badgers.

Quote from Soeren Scharf :

Edit: That's me

I'm playing LFS for a year. Most of all i like drifting. I have 200sx and doing same thing in RL like in LFS. I could say LFS skills really helps in controling the car.. LFS was first steps into drifting.. =]

th reason is because. you know how in the Patch y video scawen got a ride in an fb02 well i guess they do that with everycar

Quote from master_lfs.5101 :

th reason is because. you know how in the Patch y video scawen got a ride in an fb02 well i guess they do that with everycar

Fail, why? because LFS 75% of the cars dont exist.

Quote from Mikkel Petersen :

I would rather have a Ford Focus RS.

O yes my fav FWD car. But problem is the Focus ST comes out top.

Rs...daddy

Quote from Jakg :

That's not FWD, though :P

Huh? The Focus RS is fwd.

Quote from orange_boy_uk :

O yes my fav FWD car. But problem is the Focus ST comes out top.

Rs...daddy

Well, it has a little bigger engine. But around a track, I'm sure the RS will be faster. I assume you're comparing the first generation Focus RS to the second generation Focus ST.

Quote from FredrikB :

This saturday i took my stock Ford Focus to a trackday at Mantorp Park here in Sweden.

Is that The Stig?

1995 Nissan 200SX SE-R FWD (with LSD) DOHC SR20DE 2.0L 2 door.. 5 speed manual. Thats is a fun little car.

My wife still drives it- less than 100k miles. (until a few weeks ago, she rear-ended a Chevy Trailblazer crapmobile SUV with a trailer hitch and bashed in the front bumper and grill but she drove it home. Probably not worth fixing it but it might be. I hope we can save the thing. It is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars out there. Pretty quick (not fast)-140HP, 140FLB- light car.. 7000rpm redline.

I had a 1986 Shelby Charger 2.2L Turbo FWD 5 speed .. THAT was a quick little beast.. and handled very well, insanely harsh and tight suspension for regular road use. It was really light weight with loads of torque. I had it up to at least 140MPH one day on a straight road with 3 big people in the car. Man I miss that car. I bet it would have done pretty good on a track, but I don't think it had a limited slip differential. It kept up with my older brother's 750CC Yamaha motorcycle on the highway.. He was blown away that day.

Also had an 85 Honda Prelude 2.0Si.. 5 speed- nice suspension on that car. Very low, but little wheels and tires, LOL.

LFS seems to do a good job of simulating those kinds of cars, even though sometimes they feel quite light in the rear- but that probably has more to do with setup than physics.

Quote from PioneerLv :

G-force is all what we need. Physically impossible. :sadbanana

Not really...

http://www.force-dynamics.com/401/

If you ever sat in such a motion simulator platform you'd realise how intriguing but ultimately useless toys they are. They jerk you around, but the forces you feel are quite random and not very much resembling those of a real car. They do not make you faster on the track, period.

Investing in a better display method (multiple monitors, VR goggles, beamers, etc.) that give you a massive improvement of feeling like you're "in there" compared to a puny 19'' screen is a much better way to spend your money, IMO.

:shhh:

Quote from creativesurgeon :

Is that The Stig?

Quote from AndroidXP :

If you ever sat in such a motion simulator platform you'd realise how intriguing but ultimately useless toys they are. They jerk you around, but the forces you feel are quite random and not very much resembling those of a real car. They do not make you faster on the track, period.

Investing in a better display method (multiple monitors, VR goggles, beamers, etc.) that give you a massive improvement of feeling like you're "in there" compared to a puny 19'' screen is a much better way to spend your money, IMO.

Not according to the pro rally drivers, etc that have used the FD 301 and 401.. But what do they know? Also they do use a huge screen..

Hell, I have a 52" Sharp Aquos that does 1080p. I doubt it would be the same as using that motion simulator though. Have you ever been in the 401?

The Force Dynamics system is different than most all the other ones (on the market) though, which I agree with you about- The ones I have seen have to much latency, are inaccurate, and lack the necessary motion and speed to actually WORK.

I haven't tested the 301 or 401 but I will one of these days. I'm really close (geographically) to the factory- and my name is even on their website giving me credit for helping them hook up with Racer_S - one of the software gurus that write code for them. I bet they'll let me take it for a spin. My 15 seconds of internet fame. (I am BW) One of these days... I bet it will be a blast especially with LFS or RBR. I realize it won't be like being in a real car, but if you notice the amazing speed and accuracy of the 301 and 401, I don't see how it wouldn't really make the sim experience more realistic.

Well just booked again for the second time a track day in Spa Francorchamps for July!

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

yeah everyone loves them, they are cheap, handle well, and boatloads of power. Shame they flex more than a bodybuilder showing off their muscles... if only they had remembered that unibodies cannot really handle that much power without twisting...

Say what? Vettes have never been unibodies

I have to say that since starting to play LFS I've become much more sensitive to what my car is doing in real life. Things that I never really noticed before such as the delay between turning the wheel and the car actually starting to turn, the transfer of weight (or rather the the time it takes) etc.

I believe in this way, LFS has helped me to become a smoother driver on the road.

Quote from BrandonAGr :

Say what? Vettes have never been unibodies

I think you better go check under the latest one It's been a unibody since the C4 IIRC. I know for a fact that Nayked racing used to race vettes in the states and they had to switch to the viper because the vettes would flex more than what could be handled by the setup and the car would become a pile mush when pushing the limit. This came from Dave, one of the crewchiefs.

A little history of the Vette.
http://www.welovecorvettes.com/history.html

"The unibody construction used in the C4 was prone to rattles and squeaks due to minimal sound deadening. "

I like the focus, but would they ever keep up to a Bentley Continental GT well into the triple digits in factory trim? I think not =)

I like the old Shelby Chargers, the SRT-4 concept was modeled after them. Shame they had torque steer up the wazzuu. With that turbo on the 2.2 you could do a 14.0 1/4 mile with a front wheel drive car back in the mid/late 80's, well before the 'tuner' market poped up.

Quote from z3r0c00l :

.... The saxo/106 has the single worst chassis I've experienced. ....

...compared to what? .... a 2CV?
Ever driven a Trabant?

Chassis: If you mean springs, dampers, anti roll bar .... Do you really think that we drive slalom without modification of these parts?

...?

Funnily enough i rally drive a Focus Had to take a driving assessment to get into a rally academy and i passed it quite confidently, which i owe all to Live For Speed and Richard Burns Rally. I had never driven irl before .. i went from PC to rally car in one jump Obviously neither LFS or RBR will simulate the forces on your body like in real life without a good motion simulator, but these games really do replicate the way a car behaves, extremely well. i didn't really pay much attention to the forces acting on my body anyway, i was too busy steering :rally_dri

Quote from Gills4life :

Funnily enough i rally drive a Focus Had to take a driving assessment to get into a rally academy and i passed it quite confidently, which i owe all to Live For Speed and Richard Burns Rally. I had never driven irl before .. i went from PC to rally car in one jump Obviously neither LFS or RBR will simulate the forces on your body like in real life without a good motion simulator, but these games really do replicate the way a car behaves, extremely well. i didn't really pay much attention to the forces acting on my body anyway, i was too busy steering :rally_dri

Cool

I'll agree on the last sentence. The forces in a road car is to small to be a real factor. Driving a formula 1, that would be a different thing..

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

I like the old Shelby Chargers, the SRT-4 concept was modeled after them. Shame they had torque steer up the wazzuu. With that turbo on the 2.2 you could do a 14.0 1/4 mile with a front wheel drive car back in the mid/late 80's, well before the 'tuner' market poped up.

That's why I get a little lump in my throat and a sour stomach every time I think about trading in that car (many years ago). It was in beautiful shape.. I have to scan in the old 35mm pics I took of it, before digital cameras were being used very much..



Oh BTW, I found these pics on my hard drive form a long time ago.. interesting anyway.. I thought.

I compared to a multitude of cars in the same price range, and the Trabant is a 1957 design so that is hardly a fair comparison. The 2cv was designed for farm work, so again, hardly a fair comparison.

The saxo/106 rear suspension design sucks, it doesn't even come with anti-roll bars standard. It's a miserably unsafe car, even NCAP reckon 2 stars is about all its worth. Not as bad as the new 107s mind, where your rear passengers head rests on the rear windscreen, not exactly ideal.

If you're talking about modified cars, obviously it isn't just a saxo anymore, but if you're going to swap out the springs, dampers, top mounts, strut bars, roll bars and links etc, by the end of replacing the "weak links" there isn't anything saxo left that isn't cosmetic.

If you do this with every car you improve them all by the same standard, of course a modified stripped and bilstiened VTS will beat a stock 323i, but rip out a the 323i and drop its suspension, change the rear diff and it will go back to running rings round it. All improvements are relative.

One of my work collegues has a saxo vtr he paid £3k for, I spent an extra £1k, and I have 2.5l E46, leather, air conditioning, comfortable seats, a nice gear knob etc. (and my fuel economy is better, 37mpg vs. 32mpg)

I maintain they are a poor value for money choice as a daily driver, and not as biblically fast as everyone says.


I'll be at sandown kart track (www.daytona.co.uk) at 13:00 today if you'd like to come and have a chat about it, fastest lap time wins the pointless arguement?

Quote from Soeren Scharf :

...compared to what? .... a 2CV?
Ever driven a Trabant?

Chassis: If you mean springs, dampers, anti roll bar .... Do you really think that we drive slalom without modification of these parts?

...?