The online racing simulator
iRacing
(13714 posts, closed, started )
Often GPL and LFS look better than most; and these are just dx7 engines.. Shows how little technology matters. Though in GPL, the lighting and reflection is mostly in the textures, making it look slightly naff in motion. Can't complain considering the age of the sim though.

I'm not really that impressed by iRacing's graphics. But if it runs smooth at high res, and things go 'nicely' into the distance, that'll do fine.
And if the textures are editable on each local machine, allowing talented artists to create realistic textures. Maybe iRacing needs to employ better texture artists, rather than trying to rely on programming APIs to do it for them.

Although judging by the DX10 threads on here, most people only actually care about the API rather than it's implementation or requisites.
Quote from Linsen :Yeah, reflections and shadows are nice and all, but the cars do look as though they were made out of cheap plastic, which makes it overall somehow look like a scale model scenario. It's just not consistent, imho.

I had exactly the same thought, and it took long for me to realise what lead me to this conclusion...

Take a look at the models, especially the bodywork... Now I know they have pretty rigid materials nowadays, but paper-thin body shells? As much as I want to look over that, I can't help thinking "paper cut-out" everytime I look at it...

The second thing I have to criticize is colors... They are just inconsistent: the road is incredibly washed out, yet anything else seems to be freshly painted (5 times, according to their saturation)...

It's the same story with shaders: why highlighting the cars with a fake environment mapping, polish their tyres to a plasticky shine, but completely leave out the rest? Plastic grandstand seats, metal poles, road markings and the road itself are matte, which would need shading way more than tyres... The only thing they thought of were to make the glass of the media boxes shiny...

If their physics are as inconsistent as their modelling and texturing, I understand why they'd want to charge as much as they can before you even tried it... Let's face it: a salesman who is 100 % confident about his product won't charge you for a look...
I will agree with tristan for once;
The cars look like they were drawn by the artists who also made the "cars" cartoon..which for me is not a good thing, no matter how much shine and lightingeffects they add

It's like people saying the trees in oblivion look realistic ,while they seem to be taken straight from a bambi-remake cartoon.
I think they look good, it's just the colours of the cars are to flat and vivid which makes them look, as others have said, cartoony.
That GPL shot might look good in a screenshot, but cars with the highlighting painted on look crap in motion. That eagle paint job is a bit over the top IMO.

As for looking like they're made out of plastic, given that they have a fiberglass body, they should.

Quote from tristancliffe :Some of it is very nice, but don't you think the cars look like they've been lifted out of a cartoon?

Not really, no. Everything does look too new/clean (walls on ovals are usually covered with scuff marks aren't they?) and a little oversaturated, but the cars look realistic to me. Certainally vastly better than GPL which is what I posted them for.
But why are the cars so dull? Is it part of the scrutineering process that the entire body is rubbed vigourously with Scotchbrite?
The specular highlight probably needs to be a bit sharper. Having it blurry gives the impression that the surface isn't as polished/shiny as it could be.
Quote from DarrenMarsh :Certainally vastly better than GPL which is what I posted them for.

Sorry, but no... not vastly better. But that is the problem: iRacing should be leaps and bounds better, a lot bloody more than just a bit better.

GPL is old technology that looks far better than it should do, because of the work of some very dedicated enthusiasts - amateurs in the true sense of the word: people who really care about the subject.

iRacing should reflect the same care. Its not doing it for me... But then we're talking about a very subjective area anyway.
Still there does not have to be any relationship between the quality of the graphics and physics; totally separate things!

Professional flightsims tend to be looking a bit dull and flat; but they run smoothly and are a step up realism wise from Lock-On or Falcon 4.
Pay every month for sim? Noot. It means it isn't for home use.
Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :Still there does not have to be any relationship between the quality of the graphics and physics; totally separate things!

Well, in my experience, they are related: they are indirectly proportional... Even you give an example of that...
You mean "Inversely Proportional". Eye candy is (generally) there to cover the gaping omissions in the physics.
Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :Still there does not have to be any relationship between the quality of the graphics and physics; totally separate things!

Professional flightsims tend to be looking a bit dull and flat; but they run smoothly and are a step up realism wise from Lock-On or Falcon 4.

I absolutely agree - I'm happy to trade looks for driveability. I just disagree completely with the OP's claim that iRacing is vastly better than GPL in that department.

To be honest though, I'm glad to see the screenshot, 'cause a Radical would be the only thing on offer that might tempt me away from feeling that iRental would be a waste of my time and money.... Well... No it won't, but it does give me a little frisson of pleasure to think about a well crafted Radical simulation...

Interested to know where the screenshot came from... Googling iRacing and Radical got me nothing like that shot.
I've just been on thier site. Says about prize money etc.

So what happens if you're in a race for prize money and you get taken out by some idiotic driving?

What happens to the guy that caused the accident? Does he get a ban? Does he still have to pay the subscription? Are they seriously going to ban a paying customer?

Does the driver that was taken out get any kind of appeal process?

I bet there is a thousand page long document of terms and conditions tied up in this business plan. They're treading on thin ice IMO. They will end up covering thier own arses and in the process, alienate thier customers.

It's a shame, because one of the first Sims I played was a Papyrus Indycar game, I'd go so far as saying it got me hooked, along with GP2 by geof crammond.
Not sure if this was mentioned, but if you go to http://www.autosimsport.net/ and download the latest magazine it has a decently long article about iracing complete with pictures. It's on page 19 in the magazine.
When talking about LFS, graphics are the least important area, but when talking about other sims, they are the most important thing.
Quote from deggis :When talking about LFS, graphics are the least important area, but when talking about other sims, they are the most important thing.

Says who? Personally, I don't like the look of iracing too much, but I'm not really bothered with graphics anyaway. I do think LFS does have a very consistent look, though, which iracing lacks, imho.
Hi Gang,

If you consider the cars and tracks offered, then it appears that the sim is being marketed to real life racers at the club level along with the up and coming driver looking for a career in racing. The tracks are club tracks where SCCA and NASA races are held and the cars are popular club racing models with a feeder NASCAR series or two thrown in.

You may not be aware that there are turn key racing series where a well to do individual can pay a few thousand dollars, get race car with a mechanic, coaching and so forth while driving a complete race weekend at places like Lime Rock, Laguna Seca, and Sebring. Sort of a rent a ride on steroids that becomes available after attending a basic and advanced racing school in a related car. That appears to be what this sim is targeting, bankrolled by a wealthy racing enthusiast who probably participates in RL racing using such an avenue.

People who participate in those series would easily pay for "seat time" via a sim that mimics their Barber Dodge FT or MX5 Cup car. Same for Legends, Modifieds and so on. You can bet that realism is the goal, if they fall short, and make it lame or unrelated to what they see on their RL cars, then they won't survive long. They can't market something that allows RL drivers to develop bad habits that don't translate to RL. I'd guess that damage will be far more unforgiving than anything we have seen to date.

The pricing is meant to keep the competition off limits to a certain type of person, not so much to make money. The principal investor probably doesn't care, as long as he and his friends can practice for their next race and he can get some attention for his efforts. We'll see if the car selection expands to some of the larger clubs, like Porches, MX5 Cup and similar. It will probably be used as a screening simulator also, for young talent, and perhaps a means to train young drivers as well.

If I am wrong, and they are marketing this as a stand on its own product, they will have to relax pricing policy to an annual fee for play as much as you want, or enhance what you get car and track wise for your money.

Just one person's SWAG.

Grinch
Quite a sensible point of view, thank for posting
Quote from nihil :I just disagree completely with the OP's claim that iRacing is vastly better than GPL in that department.

No realtime lighting or shadows. No bump mapping. No multitexturing afaik.

You can tart up up and add fake lighting all you like, but it's still no comparison to modern graphics engines. I'm no GPL hater, I'm just being a realist in light of the claim made by ATC Quicksilver.

I'd still like to see those mods he/she was downloading that look twice as good as iRacing, or any other recent sim for that matter.
Quote from Mr Grinch :I'd guess that damage will be far more unforgiving than anything we have seen to date.

If it more unforgiving than netKar pro then I'll eat my shoes

Quote from Mr Grinch : The pricing is meant to keep the competition off limits to a certain type of person, not so much to make money.

I don't quite get it....what sort of person are they trying to keep away?

Lets see....you have the highly enthusiastic, dedicated sim racer like me who cant afford to race it, and the loaded with cash twat who can afford to race it Who would they prefer on their servers?

Frankly the sim racing community is small enough as it is. The pricing policy along with it's highly US biased content and the lack of anything revolutionary (the physics are going to have to be absolutely astounding to make the price justifiable) make this a risky business proposition as far as i can see.

As for those posts about the graphics....meh, it looks extremely unspectacular. Cartoon looking cars. There's nothing in any pics I've seen that make me think 'wow'.
I'd guess damage is yet another area in racing sims where harder is not necessarily more realistic...

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Quote from The Moose : Frankly the sim racing community is small enough as it is. The pricing policy along with it's highly US biased content and the lack of anything revolutionary (the physics are going to have to be absolutely astounding to make the price justifiable) make this a risky business proposition as far as i can see.

As for those posts about the graphics....meh, it looks extremely unspectacular. Cartoon looking cars. There's nothing in any pics I've seen that make me think 'wow'.

What's so bad with the US biased content so far? The tracks are nothing to complain about, Virginia, Watkins Glen, Laguna seca etc.. All tracks they have listed on their site beats any LFS tracks hands down. Nkpro tracks are better but nothing that special either (and not available to just everyone ). Oval racing is fun too in decent sim, even if it is quite boring to watch imho.

Iracing certainly isn't giving anything free, with the puny amount of two cars (for LFSsers thats actually 4, there are two configurations for each ) and few more tracks versus the higher price compared to any other sims. But so far they have been honest and open about it. And reading from their site they are targeting quite large crowd too so the claims of excluding anyone is just talk. Surely the money will leave some people out but that's the thing when you put a price on something.

But still 15$ a month is still imho not much money. With the very little content it probably fills the the term expensive but it is still about 10€ a month. Sure it adds up to 180$ per year but it still isn't that much imho... The only thing that bugs me a a bit is the lack of demo but then again, iracing isn't just to reinvent sim-racing. It is about re-inventing how to make money with raicng sims as well .
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iRacing
(13714 posts, closed, started )
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