Quote from thisnameistaken :

I agree. I was putting my case against it becoming "official", not asking for you all to be burned at the stake.

Spring's a bad time for me anyway, all my stakes are needed in the garden.

I think I was responding to you, but reacting to Forbin's "Death to STCC"
Sorry!

Quote from SamH :

That said, the OP did set me off thinking...

I would love to see a league management system built into LFSW. It would be great if you could "build" leagues into LFSW, add privateers and/or teams, specify your own admins, define your own points structure, set your racing calendar and take part in an LFSW league.

Maybe S3....

Sounds similar to an idea I suggested a while back... no one was interested unfortunately have a read if you like http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15218

Quote from Burnzoire :

Sounds similar to an idea I suggested a while back... no one was interested unfortunately have a read if you like http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15218

Corr! I never saw that before now. That's exactly it. GMTA

wsinda made the comment, in that thread, that it could already be done with 3rd-party add-ons and scripting. Fair do, he's right of course.. but the point you were making, and the one I'm thinking.. if it were integrated into LFSW, it would be ubercool, simply because it would be league management from within LFSW, and all the aspects of LFSW that go with that. I can't help thinking this is something Victor would have difficulty resisting

yeah how cooool would it be. It's totally the next step for LFS.

Imagine, they could use the LFS brands and come up with fictional series plus allow for custom leagues as well. mmmm

Quote from SamH :

*cut* nobody's ever been removed from the STCC system unless they've personally requested it (1x as far as I know, but it wasn't you) which means the only way remove you is manually.*cut*

I recall someone I know to have their points removed. Then another (rather high ranked at STCC points) person I know to had asked that their points removed, because of the previously mentioned, (or, erased, as the person put it.) too, but the only answer the person got was something along the lines of: such a hassle to manually remove points or reset points, no can do.

So that reminds me of STCC public servers just as any other public server that runs their system/server as a dictatorship (be it multiple dictators or one). Admins have the power to decide what is best for the server(s) they run, I agree, but just like SamH says, only manually remove points as the InSim doesn't allow it, so I don't really see what is the problem in removing people's points on request anymore than it is to remove points of those who violate the rules set.

Personally I don't want to race on STCC servers because of the previously mentioned issues of race for points at any cost.

To the original poster, no, definite no to STCC system as default. What I've seen it only rewards those who wreck others to gain points, just like some Gran Turismo arcade.

Quote from Moonclaw :

..snip..

Which, I must admit, I find highly entertaining, since I fairly regularly race with both those aforementioned drivers, ON the STCC servers

Don't get me wrong, if you choose not to race on the STCC servers, you have my 100% support.

Quote from Burnzoire :

yeah how cooool would it be. It's totally the next step for LFS.

Imagine, they could use the LFS brands and come up with fictional series plus allow for custom leagues as well. mmmm

Ack.. I'm all excited at the thought now.. but I can't see it happening before S3. I'm gonna go add my +1 to your post, though, so it's bumped

Thanks to everyone for your opinions, anyways, maybe I need to clarify a bit... I think that STCC is a great system, maybe not to all but at least for people like me who likes the added bonus of racing for points, points that in the end could give you rights to participate in a sort league of champions, or something like that. Cuz as it is right now with LFS theres like a lot of leagues and not really one league where the best of the best race. Of course if you were to participate on that part of the LFS experience it would be your decision (nobody would force you), you could still race in non-ladder based servers "for fun" or have "private" championships, but it would be a nice addon to the game to have this sort of option. And of course the STCC is not perfect as it is, there are still things that need to be corrected and improved, starting with the cars currently used but thats another topic.

Rayo

PS: Death to hotlappers.

Quote from SamH :

Which, I must admit, I find highly entertaining, since I fairly regularly race with both those aforementioned drivers, ON the STCC servers

I'm not sure we are talking of the same drivers that I spoke of in my first post in this thread. Let's just assume driver X was an average person who accidentally placed an AI into a race, then went to loo, after coming back, found themself banned and points erased. The second driver, driver Y, heard of this person on chat and saw the accident of putting in an AI driver and wanted to protest against it by wishing their points removed, but was declined on. If this is highly entertaining to you, I rest my case, because there is nothing more to be said on my behalf on this issue because of the obvious ignorance, or the information I am lacking to make a well judged decision on what is right or wrong.

This perhaps isn't on topic discussion of this, maybe pm discussion, but as the topic says it is about standardizing STCC points system. As far as I understand, that is moderated by admins, who use their own perception of what is right and wrong, which may not be what exactly is right or wrong. Obviously, defining right and wrong is an constant dispute and will never end, but there can be a possible agreement on certain terms that will be closer to the common good, hence right and wrong and give penalties to those who do wrong. Even then, there will be those who fall in the middle ground of that what is an accident or not of doing something or adding something, such as AI, as in my example.

Ive had S2 but a matter of days now, and I thoroughly enjoy the STCC servers.. in the UF1's, I've gone from noob to above average rapidly.. already about 40% into the second license level copper (?)..

I think these servers are a great way to refine your skills, and with even a semi-serious amount of dedication, advancement hasn't taken that long honestly, im under 2k total in game miles.. Also play around on drift servers a bit to learn finesse control, and drive quiet often on the SR fox/as club setup where I'm running low 1:01's.. Which is something I point directly at STCC for enabling me to do.. granted the UF1 and fox are far different cars, but you learn to find the boundaries, and push them to thier limits, its a confidence booster and can help out overall..

Secondly, I've recently dealt with SamH (I believe it was) about a rimjob noob wrecker on STCC in the UF1's.. I reported the person on the STCC website, with replay, and got a prompt email reply saying the guy had been banned before, and was now perma-banned.. only major incident i've ever had on his servers honestly..

Granted, every open/unrestricted server can get noobs, but typically people apologize, and learn from thier mistakes.. I can't even recall a single blueflag chat spammer on the STCC servers, as it seems the etiquette there is a notch above most servers..

On to the main topic however... No, I don't think the system should be applied across the wider spectrum, for many of the reasons stated above. It is a great system however, and one of the things that makes it great, is there is only 2 beginner servers, and most of the time they are near peak usage with great racing going on..

~Dark

moonclaw please show an ounce of common sense and edit your posts. You're trying to turn this thread into a flame war against STCC by unnecessarily bringing up old arguments.

I would just like to make a few points:

RAMMING: Happens less on STCC servers than on an unregulated road car server with a comparable field size, in my personal opinion. I used to race LFS online before the STCC - and i've raced it again since the STCC. I believe standards are higher. I may be wrong, this is a subjective point, but I believe online racing has improved a lot in the last half a year.

For instance: More people in sim racing now know rules about overlap now than ever before.

The number of accidents where a car rejoins directly into traffic has substantially reduced.

I remember what these two things where like before the STCC. Especially the rejoining. I remember races where 6-10 cars rejoined into me during a single race.

EXPANSION: I purchased an extra server to expand the number of STCC servers. Unfortunately my employer is going bankrupt and I am still unpaid, and have been told I will remain unpaid for months. Therefor I cannot afford to install the new server, and am very grateful that the original planned install didn't happen (due to a service provider issue). Currently I have no plans to install the new server, i'm more worried about avoiding personal bankruptcy.

INSIM 4: The new insim in Patch X will kill the current STCC servers. This comes at a time I had just rewritten the management software. I am behind on broadcast work already and my own personal life leaves me no time to fix it.

STCC Public servers will be stuck on the old patch, and because I do not want to split the community across two patches (actually I think the patch would /pwn STCC!) I will have no choice but to ask SamH to down the STCC servers until the software can be updated.

I did try once to bring the software back up to date, I got a fair way into it, and then Insim changed again. So I spent a night going back through the code making the new adjustments, and fell further behind on the boadcast, delayed a job application a day, then I checked to see if there where any other changes and say a post by Scawen listing some things he'd still like to do.

I have now given up with insim until it has been completed. STCC has no choice but to close.

I would like to bring the servers back in the future, but I have to save my home first.

I think moonclaw is demonstrating exactly why other people like the STCC system. It keeps people with no common sense out of the racing.

You always have the option of not going in the server if you don't want to.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I have now given up with insim until it has been completed. STCC has no choice but to close.

I would like to bring the servers back in the future, but I have to save my home first.

That's sad to hear Becky, I missed that post before I posted, but I am very upset to hear that. I am sure the community will come out and help any way they can.

Quote from Moonclaw :

What I've seen it only rewards those who wreck others to gain points, just like some Gran Turismo arcade.

then report the driver in question - by having points removed their forced to race clean to get points, and if points are all they care about then its a great punishment

I've seen some great races on new and bronze, and its got to be my favourite server - i dont like Silver and Gold, and the platinum is always empty, yet i can't actually recall seeing really overagressive drivers, just really bloody good ones

That is sad to hear, Becky. Good luck to you. You will be fine.

And replying to the thread-starter, optional is better than compulsory.

Quote from Rayo :

Cuz as it is right now with LFS theres like a lot of leagues and not really one league where the best of the best race.

I think you are wrong wtih that. There are atm two leagues where you meet the best and fastest racers. And those are MoE and ESCC. Well, on the other hand, you are right. We miss the americans there, due to the timeshifts.

On Topic: I think, the stcc system is a nice league/ladder system but it is totally selfmade and additional, and therefor should stay where it is. Outside LFS. Else, the supportwork etc. for LFS crew would grow immense, becky prolly would need to get hired by LFS, it'll slow down development of LFS. etc. etc. This is NOT negative about stcc, it's just a realistic pov, and I also enjoy driving on stcc servers, and do hope becky keeps that stuff running.

Quote from SamH :

Which, I must admit, I find highly entertaining, since I fairly regularly race with both those aforementioned drivers, ON the STCC servers

No you don't and the request still stands. There's my lfs account name written in red on your website and I don't like it that's all

(The PM route has been exhausted with Becky Rose)

I like the idea of having a "built in" league manager of some sorts that is based on the same principles as STCC. However, If I remember correctly, didn't S1 have a simaller points system in which you had to earn points to dive certain cars? I personally love going into the STCC servers. They are the only servers I go into. Maily this is because I am reltivly new to racing and can find others of the same skill level as me. At the moment, I have my silver license, yet I am not good enough to compete in the silver race servers. So I stay in the Bronze servers just for the fun of it. XFG tends to produce some great battles.

but getting to the point. I do not feel that it should be nessisary, however it would be nice to see it as an option in the future. Not so much to keep the "noobs" out, but more of a "training" of sorts. I know it has helped me out alot.

Quote from vari :

No you don't and the request still stands. There's my lfs account name written in red on your website and I don't like it that's all

(The PM route has been exhausted with Becky Rose)

Sorry but I dont bend every time some prima donna throws a hissy fit because his mate broke a finger nail whilst a crow was flying west at 18 degrees lattitude.

Quite what the problem is with keeping your licence intact I dont know, but seeing as you do nothing but complain and waste my [very precious] time over some personal vendetta, i'll go wipe your points now and apply a lifetime ban.

Happy now?

EDIT: I'm loosing track of the list of people who hate me because I tried to give them something good.

Sorry to hear about your problems, Becky.

I wish you best of luck for the future and hope that you can resolve your problems fast.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Sorry but I dont bend every time some prima donna throws a hissy fit because his mate broke a finger nail whilst a crow was flying west at 18 degrees lattitude.

Quite what the problem is with keeping your licence intact I dont know, but seeing as you do nothing but complain and waste my [very precious] time over some personal vendetta, i'll go wipe your points now and apply a lifetime ban.

Happy now?

EDIT: I'm loosing track of the list of people who hate me because I tried to give them something good.

Yes, thank you

I don't feel like I'm responsible for your time wasting since removing the points would have been less typing then the numerous PMs and posts made about this. I could say that you've wasted mine but as it isn't as precious as yours I won't! I don't understand what's the problem with agreeing to disagree and parting ways in a quiet manner. Don't tell me I should have added an AI

Now I got the ban anyways so I guess that would have been the easier route than to ask for the points to be removed in a pm! Not that it's a big deal but slightly amusing nevertheless

Thanks again.

Quote from SamH :

[EDIT] MY GOOF! Ignore the above.. I had the admin panel up, and was searching for your username but within a filter that didn't include you (I have various database query filters to help narrow searches). You have plenty of points, your points haven't been wiped.. they're all there.

OK - ignore my goof as well then.

Funny when I check my license in game it doesn't tell me I have any points. Maybe I'm doing it wrong...

I don't understand why people get so worked up, in a negative, way towards the STCC system?

It's been made for others to use for free, the people who use it have not paid for it, they really have nothing to complain about at all. If I hated it so much like others seem to I just wouldn't go there?!

They are amongst the cleanest servers, I've never had a serious problem on their, no one has ever taken me out to gain points and a single position really doesn't give a massive jump in points anyway so it would be pointless.

It's like Becky has said, it's amazing that people have given her sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much grief about a free and good addition to LFS that you don't even have to use if you don't want to.

vari and Moonclaw, I was thinking of someone else's tantrum

I can't understand all this fuss either? People complaining that they can't drive the car they want because they hate the UF1 or slow cars. There's plenty of other servers, you can even start your own and run any car and any track you like.

And people moaning about crashers/wreckers ruining their race to gain some points. Well if you reported people like that the servers would have less of them or they would cop on and stop wrecking others. There's not a significant gain in points to be had for wrecking in one race and if that person consistantly wrecked I'm sure someone would report them and that would be the end of it. I have been wrecked many times but I wouldn't say that it was always intentional (we were all n00bs at some stage, me included). I just brush the dust off and get on with it, knowing that when I got promoted to the next rank there would be less wreckers and better racers on the next level, which there is.

As garph before me said, you don't have to race there, so why complain about the server rules when you could go somewhere else?

Becky, if I was you, I wouldn't even bother keeping count of people like that, I'd be counting the ever growing number of people obtaining their STCC licenses. People leaving/asking to have their points removed is far far less than the people joining up.

______________________________________________

Anyway...

Back to the topic, "Should the STCC system be part of the LFS official game?"

Well I think it should be but as an option, making it compulsory would limit LFS as a game. Like in GTR2 where it has different championships, or TOCA where you have to go up the ranks to get to the top events. I'm not sure how it would work but I think LFS would benefit from having the STCC, or something similar, as a part of the official game.