If we think about it a moment, we have enough cars of quality to race with.

A real racer can spend several seasons (years) with the same car. And if he is a beginner with a low powered car.

So I dream for a simulator which contain only three cars for the first year. A formula vee (for open wheelers), a mazda miata (for street cars) and a late model (for ovals). It can evolve after that with more powerful cars.

The cars have to be build by a solid team of developers not by a user lambda (problem of trust and competence).

The problem is that LFS cars are all outdated (being developed twenty years ago).

the mod system has only been launched a few months ago, within a framework nobody was familiar with. the fact that we even have a handful of actually good well-rounded mods is surprising.
nobody's forcing you to drive the low quality mods, but everyone has to start somewhere.

i too started experimenting in the editor by messing around with the fxo, then i tried some low-poly low-hp car to get more familiar with how to import a 3rd-party mesh, and then i allowed myself to actually get on a more serious project.

low-quality mods are inevitable, but without those low-quality mods we would never get proper high quality mods; you have some very high standards for no reason. until we'll get some mods on your expectation level, nobody's stopping you from driving the same cars you've been driving for 20 years arleady.

and quick note, of course xfg feels much more comfortable to drive than the swift, you've driven it for years at hand.

Quote from adirany :

If we think about it a moment, we have enough cars of quality to race with.

A real racer can spend several seasons (years) with the same car. And if he is a beginner with a low powered car.

So I dream for a simulator which contain only three cars for the first year. A formula vee (for open wheelers), a mazda miata (for street cars) and a late model (for ovals). It can evolve after that with more powerful cars.

The cars have to be build by a solid team of developers not by a user lambda (problem of trust and competence).

The problem is that LFS cars are all outdated (being developed twenty years ago).

All of this are iracing things...so there you go dream simulator

Quote from adirany :

I really think that it will be difficult to find a modder with the skills of Scawen for making cars or the skills of Eric for making tracks.

I just want to be clear that nearly all the car models were made by Eric.

I only made the UF model. I know it needs some updates.

But I was involved with the physics of all the cars.

Quote from Scawen :

I just want to be clear that nearly all the car models were made by Eric.

I only made the UF model. I know it needs some updates.

But I was involved with the physics of all the cars.

When I say making cars I think mostly about the handling, the physics of the cars. But thank you Scawen for the precision.

I said that the LFS cars are outdated but there is a more serious problem: the LFS engine is very old.

And here is a good question for Scawen:

Is the LFS engine (even if updated) capable of reproducing correctly the handling and the behavior of a modern TCR car (a Honda civic TCR or a Hyundai Elantra TCR for example).

Quote from Viperakecske :

All of this are iracing things...so there you go dream simulator

+1. Close thread.

No not iracing.

I just mean that a racer must stay some time with a single car to learn how to race it and how to setup it.

He surely must not jump from car to car. This is unproductive.

I mean that is iRacing. Assuming a normal licence cadence, as a Rookie you're likely gonna have a few weeks in the Miata, from there you graduate to D licence with a few cars available to master, but you can't go and race a wide range of cars from the start.

No what I propose is not really similar to iracing where you can get out of rookie in two hours if you like (which is ridiculous of course).

What I propose is what a real racer can live in real live. He race in one car the entire year (season). And in this manner he has the time to really know and appreciate his car.

But this is not really the subject of this thread. I should not have mentioned it anyway.

ad topic:
on very high level "exec summary" level there is one simple metric to judge mods system addition.

Reading between lines of Scawen's posts, LFS was pretty close to closing down due to low income in recent years.

If LFS is still around for next 2-3 years, the mods were good thing for LFS (assuming keeping the project alive is a good thing).

So far it looks like it did generate some buzz and S3 purchases.

Whether it's enough only Scawen knows (and has no obligation to share exact numbers), but eventually we will know too, just by the simple fact whether LFS is still running or not, in a couple of years.

Quote from Ped7g :

ad topic:
on very high level "exec summary" level there is one simple metric to judge mods system addition.

Reading between lines of Scawen's posts, LFS was pretty close to closing down due to low income in recent years.

If LFS is still around for next 2-3 years, the mods were good thing for LFS (assuming keeping the project alive is a good thing).

So far it looks like it did generate some buzz and S3 purchases.

Whether it's enough only Scawen knows (and has no obligation to share exact numbers), but eventually we will know too, just by the simple fact whether LFS is still running or not, in a couple of years.

No I think that the problem is more deep than that.

It is in the LFS engine which is really very old.

Can it still handle modern cars like TCR, GT4 and GT3.

Multiple high quality mods have been made.
I think nobody can seriously disagree, that those are a great addition to LFS?
For example currently the E-Challenger series or the Rallyecross championship would not be possible without their respective cars.
If you read some threads or discord chat then you will see how people try to get details as close as possibe.
(taking meassurements of real cars, looking at suspension diagrams etc)

So that leaves the question, what about the bad mods? Why are there airplanes and other nonsense?
I think those mods fall into several categories:

1) People are learning the tools.
For example nikopdr writes about his racing lawnmover:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/B894E9
"made as a learning practise to get used to the functions of the new LFS editor."
Such vehicle is good as first project because it is less complex than modeling a full sized car.
It is very likely that most first attempts a creating a LFS vehicle never get finished or do not get published. But if it turns out decent enough, why not publish it?

2) Experiments
An old topic in LFS forum was "A real life F1 car can drive upside down on the ceiling. Can the LFS BMW F1 do that, too?"
Once the layout-editor allowed to create a suitable track with ramps, it was tried - it worked.
So the next step is: What happens if a LFS car gets negative downforce - like an airplane?
It was only a matter of time until somebody would try it out.
How does LFS physics handle vehicles it was not meant for, like heavy trucks, busses or dragsters?
Some people just like pushing the game physics like that.

3) Mods that are basically LFS cars with small modifications:
Either again, it is people learning the tools with small projects.
Or it is just players who always wished that their favorite LFS car had a different engine or whatever.
Those mods can be filtered out by the "Tweak mods" filter.

4) For the lols.
Some users seem already familiar enough with the editor that they can create new mods without too much effort.
So they make a driveable trashbin just for amusement.

5) Low barrier to entry.
The editors are not that easy to use. But they seem userfriendly enough that many people can important some random 3D model from the internet, throw together some chasis and engine and make something that drivers.
..and so people do just that. Results may vary, some people do not really understand licenes and so on.
But it is the same story everywhere when people learn new skills. Not only in LFS but anywhere.
Millions of terrible stuff gets created daily by newbies: Horrible photoshops, awful code gets written, ear-hurting music is created. But people are proud and happy with their creations. Some will get better and eventually create content that others will enjoy too.

6) Cruisers
Some players like their cruise servers. They want as many different road-worthy vehicles as possible, physics do not matter that much. It is more important to have ambulances or cement mixer trucks for roleplay.
It is not my style of playing but really: The mods list comes with pictures. You can see that it is a delivery truck before downloading the mod. Just scroll past it.


The people who create silly mods are not trolls.
The guy who made the airplane also made a serious gokart:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods?user=PedroXDBR

Look at the mods published by Jake_Blasted:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods?user=Jake_Blasted
He made a tank and trucks.
And also he made the P166 and P126: Two good quality vintage racers in a quality comperable to LFS original cars.

We have wasting so much time. I will never use mods because I trust someone who knows and not someone who is still learning.

The problem of LFS is not mods or no mods. It is its slow development.

Can this simulator deliver again something modern.

(Oh look here is an ambulance. Let us race with it).

Don't like mods?

Don't use them.

#End of this useless and bad faith thread.

Quote from adirany :

No I think that the problem is more deep than that.

It is in the LFS engine which is really very old.

Can it still handle modern cars like TCR, GT4 and GT3.

it's based on Newton's physics laws, which are not truly correct/accurate, but work good enough for this kind of simulation. Those were published in 1687. They still apply also to TCR, GT4 and GT3. I wouldn't be worried about the core of the LFS simulation engine too much, especially if the tyre simulation rewrite will work as planned. (other subtle details should be easier to fix, less than 10 years )

Quote from Ped7g :

it's based on Newton's physics laws, which are not truly correct/accurate, but work good enough for this kind of simulation. Those were published in 1687. They still apply also to TCR, GT4 and GT3. I wouldn't be worried about the core of the LFS simulation engine too much, especially if the tyre simulation rewrite will work as planned. (other subtle details should be easier to fix, less than 10 years )

Yes physics hasn't changed but a big part about driving a TCR/GT4/GT3 is the electronics. They all have TCS and ABS systems which LFS does simulate but those systems have changed in the 15 years since implementation to be far more race-y. The TCS system in most GT3 cars has so many properties to adjust to maximize speed while still retaining some of the TCS safety.

Quote from nexttime :

Don't like mods?

Don't use them.

#End of this useless and bad faith thread.

I am not really against mods.

But with all this mediocrity, LFS is not serious anymore.

Can you race again in a simulator that contain an ambulance mod.

Quote from adirany :

Can you race again in a simulator that contain an ambulance mod.

Yes.
Just use a different vehicle.

Meanwhile in Assetto Corsa:

rFactor:

Such stuff exists for every game. At least in LFS you have filters, ratings and installing a mod takes only seconds.

If you ignore the whole mod system because you dislike some mods then you are missing out on good cars, too.
It is like never again listening to music because once you heard a bad song.

Quote from Gutholz :

Such stuff exists for every game. At least in LFS you have filters, ratings and installing a mod takes only seconds.

But LFS is not a game.

Please try my KRT CR MOD, about 500hours for making this mod from scratch, from "blender" to LFS editor, i've restart the project from scratch 3 times... The mod-patch is "new"... I think like you about "christmas tree/ Wheelchair/ burger-car/..." Some mods need to be classified in FUNMODS in my opinion! But i think devs is like all of us, human and want to make LFS better! After vehicle mods, Track mods would be perfect i begin the photogrametry for implement one day a track on LFS!

Quote from adirany :

But LFS is not a game.

It's a video or computer game after all. Simulator or not. Different genres.

Quote from Evolution_R :

It's a video or computer game after all. Simulator or not. Different genres.

Oh sorry,

I will quit then.

I m starting to think you're a troll.

Quote from Gutholz :

Yes.
Just use a different vehicle.

Meanwhile in Assetto Corsa:

that is a QUALITY mod gachiGASM