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US Elections 2012
(493 posts, started )
Quote from Bmxtwins :I do not support the wars abroad, but i feel that no matter who our presodent is that they would happen anyways

You still haven't really answered the questions properly, but from the above it seems like your stance on killing has changed from "its still immoral to terminate any life" to apathy towards tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of civilian deaths which could have been prevented.

Do you want to take another chance at answering those questions?
Quote from Bmxtwins :I do not support the wars abroad, but i feel that no matter who our presodent is that they would happen anyways

WHY ?

Or do you ( as a country ) believe that murdering people in other countries is acceptable, the rest of the world believe it's terrorism, but clearly the US people believe that it's your resource's that other people live on.

Like the Indians did..........

And look what happened to them.

And, if you want an arguement, please explain why Al Queda carried out 9/11 ( lol ) and are this force of evil while the US gave them support and arms to take out Libya, are giving them support and arms to be 'revolutionaries' in Syria yet tell the US people that they want to take your freedom away ?

Sorry, but I'm a bit confused over your govt stand.

In NZ, two faced, would be the people's response, but I'm sure you can explain this dichotomy clearly to us all........

Or not.
Quote from Bmxtwins :I do not support the wars abroad, but i feel that no matter who our presodent is that they would happen anyways

No. Iraq would be a lot more stable (and likely a threat) if they hadn't invaded. The US (and NATO) going in just made it that much worse. Think about this. If it was truly about removing Saddam, why did thousands of people march? Why did an MP resign over the war then?

Why did people's reactions change over time? Surely if they would happen anyway, there'd be a general apathy toward them? There wasn't. Instead, there was a huge patriotic fervor about it that has died down and turned against the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq. IMO, and I'm getting into Racer X territory here, why even go to war when they could just take Bin Laden out with a covert operation? Why have a long, drawn out war they won't ever win at all in two nations? Yes, you can go wave your flags but it doesn't change a thing. There's a majority of Americans who want the troops home, In both elections, didn't Obama promise to bring more troops home? Whereas McCain and Romney did not? Both wre perceived as hawks and warmongers. Correct? The fear was McCain would take the US and world into a war with the Middle East and Romney would just charge into Iran and trigger WWIII.

Also: Did you see the UK rush into Pakistan or any Muslim nation after 7/7? No, you did not. Mainly because the UK at that time, while helping in Iraq, was more rational over it and still smarting from 2003 and the backlash there. They knew that going to war would risk more MPs resigning or protesting. Name one Congressman or Senator who resigned in 2003 over the Iraq war or Afghan war?
Quote from Shotglass :
thats not the question though its always been legal for someone to end their lifes (or at least free of punishment as its kinda difficult to punish a dead person)
the question is should it be legal for someone else to end the life of someone who wants to die

You don't know what you are talking about do you.


Try to kill yourself, but don't succeed. It is not legal for you to take your own life.
Is it illegal to try?
Quote from tristancliffe :Is it illegal to try?

While it's not a written law any more, you are still treated as if it were.
In many jurisdictions, medical facilities are empowered or required to commit anyone whom they believe to be suicidal for evaluation and treatment.
So if it's not illegal to try, but it is illegal to succeed, how are the successful punished?
Quote from tristancliffe :So if it's not illegal to try, but it is illegal to succeed, how are the successful punished?

If you tru and don't succeed In many jurisdictions, medical facilities are empowered or required to commit anyone whom they believe to be suicidal for evaluation and treatment
Okay, so you can sort of tell off those that don't succeed. Give them a slap on the wrist, a bit of a talking to, and some medication.

The ones that break the law - the ones that succeed - are they sent to jail? Are they committed anywhere (other than a box in the ground)? Maybe they're made to do some community service, or take a suicide awareness course? Are they allowed to appeal any court judgements?

You seem to think that Shotglass was wrong in his post - but clearly he isn't. It's very difficult to punish a dead person for killing themselves, and if it isn't illegal to try then you can't punish them.
You can incarcerate them against their will, though, in the name of restoring their mental health (which may or may not have ever been lost... there are plenty of rational reasons for wanting to end your life). This is what edge is getting at. It may not be "illegal" per se, but the end result can still be jail time, of a sort.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Their both the same party, morons...............

Only to Ron Paul acolytes (, moron).
Perhaps the death penalty for attempted suicide ?

I do think you'll find that both your parties in the US represent the same banking corporate 1percent. They certainly are paid off by the same power groups, do they represent the people who vote for them ?

Lets pretend the official 911 story, you were attacked by Saudi Arabians and you invaded Afghanistan.
Was your military carrying out testing on apple maps ?

Why was Iraq attacked after being the wrests best friend for years, they had just started selling oil using their own currency from a non central bank

Why was Libya attacked after being the wests best friend for years, they had started selling oil using their own currency from a non central bank.

Why is Iran about to be attacked, they have started selling oil using their own currency from a non central bank.

Do you think there may be some pattern emerging here ?

And who owns your govt, the fed.

What was the first thing set up in Iraq and Libya, a central bank.

There's no difference between either of your two parties as they both follow orders about looting the worlds resources to make the wealthy even richer.

They both support terrorism, Al Queda, the alleged attackers in 911 are now your allies, your arming them, supporting them, and a number of other terrorist groups.

You carry out acts of terror constantly around the world, no matter which party is in power.

Not seeing any difference from here, only who's the most crazy murderer.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Perhaps the death penalty for attempted suicide ?

That's funny. Good one mate. What a knee slapper. Also, can you complete a post without hitting enter after every line. We don't need double spacing.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Al Queda, the alleged attackers in 911 are now your allies, your arming them, supporting them, and a number of other terrorist groups.

Sorry but that is a very bold claim based on the fact that you get your information from some very sketchy sources I am sure.
Quote from edge3147 :You don't know what you are talking about do you.


Try to kill yourself, but don't succeed. It is not legal for you to take your own life.

yes it is (at least in the us)
By the early 1990s only two states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S ... legislation#United_States

also right back at ya

Quote from amp88 :Do you want to take another chance at answering those questions?

i think its become glaringly obvious by now that he is either incapable or unwilling to actually think about his position which would be required to answer (probably both)
Quote from Bmxtwins :Sorry but that is a very bold claim based on the fact that you get your information from some very sketchy sources I am sure.

Libyan 'rebels' flying the Al Queda flag, statements from the fighters, the same with the Syrian 'rebels', same groups often. Mind you, you lot have given them over 300 stinger missiles so that should be fun.
Also the small fact that Bin Laden was a US asset and had been for years.

And, FYI, the US never wanted Bin Laden for 911, his FBI page made no mention of it !

If I look hard enough I believe that there's a statement from your State Dept saying so as well.

Edit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new ... -have-al-Qaeda-links.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new ... lution-flag-Al-Qaeda.html
The black flag of Al Qaeda was hoisted in Libya yesterday as Nato formally ended its military campaign.

The standard fluttered from the roof of the courthouse in Benghazi, where the country’s new rulers have imposed sharia law since seizing power.

http://www.newyorker.com/repor ... 03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

But these are all conspiracy sites focussed on the overthrow of Western Civilisation ?
So....

Allegedly, Obama is a socialist.

Discuss
He's a communist and a Muslim too.
Obama is basically a moderate Republican. Or perhaps just a moderate. He's not a liberal, let alone a socialist.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Libyan 'rebels' flying the Al Queda flag, statements from the fighters, the same with the Syrian 'rebels', same groups often. Mind you, you lot have given them over 300 stinger missiles so that should be fun.
Also the small fact that Bin Laden was a US asset and had been for years.

And, FYI, the US never wanted Bin Laden for 911, his FBI page made no mention of it !

If I look hard enough I believe that there's a statement from your State Dept saying so as well.

Edit:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new ... -have-al-Qaeda-links.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new ... lution-flag-Al-Qaeda.html
The black flag of Al Qaeda was hoisted in Libya yesterday as Nato formally ended its military campaign.

The standard fluttered from the roof of the courthouse in Benghazi, where the country’s new rulers have imposed sharia law since seizing power.

http://www.newyorker.com/repor ... 03/05/070305fa_fact_hersh

But these are all conspiracy sites focussed on the overthrow of Western Civilisation ?

Did you ever think that maybe these are splinter groups and not the entre rebel movement.
Did you ever think that if your supporting 'splinter*' groups of Al Queda then your supporting Al Queda, or is that too simple for you, and do check what Al Queda actually is.

But, at least we both agree that the US is arming and supporting 'parts' of Al Queda.

But read your 'official' view, this is what your media tell you. The Council for Foreign Relations controls most US policy for both parties, if you don't know who they are then try google !

Al-Qaeda, an international terrorist network, is considered the top terrorist threat to the United States. The group is wanted for its September 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center# and the Pentagon#, as well as a host of lesser attacks. To escape the post-9/11 U.S.-led war in Afghanistan, al-Qaeda's central leadership fled eastward into Pakistan, securing a safe haven in loosely governed areas there. In July 2007, U.S. intelligence agencies found that the organization was regrouping and regaining strength in these tribal areas along the border with Afghanistan, though targeted killings of senior al-Qaeda leaders have since diminished the group's command and control capabilities. In February 2009, Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair told lawmakers that the group's core "is less capable and effective than it was a year ago." The killing of al-Qaeda's top leader Osama bin Laden by U.S. forces in Pakistan in May 2011 served a significant blow to the organization, but analysts say al-Qaeda remains deadly with its networks spread all over the world. Plus, a number of affiliated groups have gained prominence in recent years, complicating the task of containing the organization.
http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-o ... k-al-qaida-al-qaida/p9126

# Not by your FBI anyway !

But, isn't Al Queda the whole reason for the TSA, Patriot Act, Indefinet detention of US citizens, the loss of your constitution, Your 'Never Ending' war on Terrortm, your murder of civilians in all corners of the globe with drone strikes ?
But, even you admit your arming and supporting 'parts' of them.
Are they the 'good' parts, or what ?

This is why many parts of the world, who actually know and understand this simple fact can see no difference in your 'two' parties.
Both support terrorists and want to murder and loot, use their proxy terror groups to carry out their bidding, and all in the name of the US, and that includes you, sorry !

* Marc Sageman, a psychiatrist and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, said that al-Qaeda is now just a "loose label for a movement that seems to target the West". "There is no umbrella organisation. We like to create a mythical entity called [al-Qaeda] in our minds, but that is not the reality we are dealing with."[36]

What exactly al-Qaeda is, or was, remains in dispute. Author and journalist Adam Curtis argues that the idea of al-Qaeda as a formal organization is primarily an American invention. Curtis contends the name "al-Qaeda" was first brought to the attention of the public in the 2001 trial of bin Laden and the four men accused of the 1998 US embassy bombings in East Africa:

The reality was that bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri had become the focus of a loose association of disillusioned Islamist militants who were attracted by the new strategy. But there was no organization. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden^ for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term "al-Qaeda" to refer to the name of a group until after September 11 attacks, when he realized that this was the term the Americans had given it.[49]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

^ Who historically had a long standing association with the US, particually the CIA, and, check out the Bin Laden's and Bush families business associations.
And daddy Bush was involved with the CIA, deeply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C ... 0%93_al-Qaeda_controversy
An article in Der Spiegel, in 2007, entitled "Arming the Middle East", Siegesmund von Ilsemann called Bin Laden "one of the CIA's best weapons customers." [4]
According to author Steve Coll,
Overall, the U.S. government looked favorably on the Arab recruitment drives. ... Some of the most ardent cold warriors at Langley [The CIA headquarters] thought this program should be formally endorsed and extended. ... [T]he CIA "examined ways to increase their participation, perhaps in the form of some sort of international brigade" ... Robert Gates [then-head of the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence] recalled. ... At the [CIA's] Islamabad station [station chief] Milt Bearden felt that bin Laden himself "actually did some very good things" by putting money into Afghanistan.[5]

Robin Cook, Foreign Secretary in the UK from 1997–2001, and Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council from 2001–2003, believed the CIA had provided arms to the Arab Mujahideen, including Osama bin Laden, writing, "Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."[6]

Red pill or Blue pill........
Quote from Racer X NZ :Did you ever think that if your supporting 'splinter*' groups of Al Queda then your supporting Al Queda, or is that too simple for you, and do check what Al Queda actually is.

So, at least we both agree that the US is arming and supporting 'parts' of Al Queda.
But, isn't Al Queda the whole reason for the TSA, Patriot Act, Indefinet detention of US citizens, the loss of your constitution, Your 'Never Ending' war on Terrortm, your murder of civilians in all corners of the globe with drone strikes.
But, even you admit your arming and supporting 'parts' of them.
Are they the 'good' parts, or what ?

This is why many parts of the world, who actually know and understand this simple fact can see no difference in your 'two' parties.
Both support terrorists and want to murder and loot, use their proxy terror groups to carry out their bidding, and all in the name of the US, and that includes you, sorry !

* Marc Sageman, a psychiatrist and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, said that al-Qaeda is now just a "loose label for a movement that seems to target the West". "There is no umbrella organisation. We like to create a mythical entity called [al-Qaeda] in our minds, but that is not the reality we are dealing with."[36]

What exactly al-Qaeda is, or was, remains in dispute. Author and journalist Adam Curtis argues that the idea of al-Qaeda as a formal organization is primarily an American invention. Curtis contends the name "al-Qaeda" was first brought to the attention of the public in the 2001 trial of bin Laden and the four men accused of the 1998 US embassy bombings in East Africa:

The reality was that bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri had become the focus of a loose association of disillusioned Islamist militants who were attracted by the new strategy. But there was no organization. These were militants who mostly planned their own operations and looked to bin Laden for funding and assistance. He was not their commander. There is also no evidence that bin Laden used the term "al-Qaeda" to refer to the name of a group until after September 11 attacks, when he realized that this was the term the Americans had given it.[49]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

I never said that. What I was implying was that these groups are leaching off of rebel supplies.
Its also funny how you turn every occurence in the world into a conspiracy.

Whats next your going to deny that a plane flew into the world trade centers?
Did you just quote his entire post..
C"mon cousin. It's over. Obama won. You need to come up with conspiracies about the 2016 elections. I wonder if S3'll be out by then?

US Elections 2012
(493 posts, started )
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