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Hamilton is having a tough season, obviously not in the right frame of mind. Massa knows that but he still drags Hamiltons name through the media, making it worse. If he has a problem he should talk to him in private, all he is doing is kicking someone when they are down and wondering why he keeps making mistakes. I'm not so sure that Massa is the nice guy everyone claims he is.

Congrats to Vettel, totally dominant and fully deserves his two titles, great drive by Jenson and Alonso today too.
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :Hamilton is having a tough season, obviously not in the right frame of mind. Massa knows that but he still drags Hamiltons name through the media, making it worse. If he has a problem he should talk to him in private, all he is doing is kicking someone when they are down and wondering why he keeps making mistakes. I'm not so sure that Massa is the nice guy everyone claims he is.

Maybe Massa is just having a tough season as well?
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :Hamilton is having a tough season, obviously not in the right frame of mind. Massa knows that but he still drags Hamiltons name through the media, making it worse. If he has a problem he should talk to him in private, all he is doing is kicking someone when they are down and wondering why he keeps making mistakes. I'm not so sure that Massa is the nice guy everyone claims he is.

Congrats to Vettel, totally dominant and fully deserves his two titles, great drive by Jenson and Alonso today too.

Massa has tried to talk to Hamilton a few times. Hamilton has ignored him completely every time he's tried to talk to him so it's no wonder Massa's gotten tired of it. Of course Massa's not a nice guy, he's Hamilton's competitor and he would be happy if Hamilton lost his nerves because of all this since Massa is racing against Hamilton and wants to beat him by all means necessary.
Hamilton is pro-trolling Massa, it's hilarious to watch.

Well done to Vettel, nobody came anywhere near him this year.
Quote from thisnameistaken :
Well done to Vettel, nobody came anywhere near him this year.

put Vettel in a Mclaren for a year and Button/Hamilton would've destroyed him.
Quote from aroX123 :put Vettel in a Mclaren for a year and Button/Hamilton would've destroyed him.

i hope the FIA tears down the redbull cars at the end of the season to see if they're cheating somehow... but i doubt that'll ever happen.
Quote from aroX123 :put Vettel in a Mclaren for a year and Button/Hamilton would've destroyed him.

I don't know why people bother with speculation like this.
Well, Button might. Hamilton wouldn't stand a chance.

But let's not forget that Vettel is quite probably the best racing driver ever...
Quote from tristancliffe :Well, Button might. Hamilton wouldn't stand a chance.

But let's not forget that Vettel is quite probably the best racing driver ever...

My sarcasm detector is beeping!

Button is slowly but surely swinging the team to him. He is so obviously comfortable in his own skin compared to Lewis and I would imagine he is much easier for team members to build relationships with. I'm not sure how all the troops in the trench at McLaren react to Lewis "The Shizzle Dizzle" Hamilton and all his celebrity friends. No one likes a Billy Big Boots.
Quote from tristancliffe :But let's not forget that Vettel is quite probably the best racing driver ever...

they said that about hamilton a couple years ago.
I'm cynical, I'm not buying Lewis's 'the mirrors vibrate so bad' line. If they did he'd have issues with cars around him. How many overtakes has he done this year that haven't resulted in contact?

To me, it seems he's distracted and not focusing on F1 anymore. His managers want to, for want of a better word, 'pimp his image'. The best way to do that would be for him to be a great driver and team player. McLaren (according to Autosport a few weeks back) were privately upset at Hamilton's glitzy lifestyle.

I don't agree with Simon Fuller managing him. I disagree with the direction they're pushing him in. Lewis is a racer, he is not a showman.
Aslong as Hamilton can get hes head together before next season there should be no problem, he had no chance of going for the title this year regardless, the Redbull was just too strong for too long.

Its clearly obvious that Redbull have stopped developing there car this year though as there now behind Mclaren.
Bah, it would be easy to hate Vettel, but he's just so damned likeable. A great driver and very nice boy, he completely deserves the championship. Frankly you can count his career mistakes on one hand, and that says something!
Quote from DarkTimes :Bah, it would be easy to hate Vettel, but he's just so damned likeable. A great driver and very nice boy, he completely deserves the championship. Frankly you can count his career mistakes on one hand, and that says something!

Agreed, Well deserved Championship. Also well done Jensen in Japan.
Hamo, hopefully you do better next season, its exciting to watch him, regardless.
and if you do lose the GF, i'll take her.
Quote from Mustafur :Its clearly obvious that Redbull have stopped developing there car this year though as there now behind Mclaren.

There are no major technical rule changes for next year other than the ban on blown diffusers, so most of the development work for this season will carry onto the next.

I think rather McLaren is outstripping Red Bull in pure development pace. Perhaps the McLaren MP-26 is a more versatile design than the RB7, with the latter running out of development potential. If that is true, then 2012 could very well be a McLaren-dominated season.
Except that McLaren operate a two year development cycle using different design teams (or at least they did) and their cars have recently been off the pace out of the box.

It's not as simple as designing a new part for next year and then just slotting it onto this year's car. It's also naive to think that Newey won't have something else up his sleeve for next year.
Plenty of new rules for next year to aid innovation.
Quote from tristancliffe :Plenty of new rules for next year to aid innovation.

And Newey's always got the drop on everybody when the rules change. :/
Quote from Töki (HUN) :.

@BlueFlame, yeah we all know it was Massa's fault today as well...

Hamilton was to blame, but it wasn't deliberate. Seb on Button was deliberate. I despise dirty driving, and if a driver does it often, I don't like that driver. That's why I don't like Vettel, ever since the Red Bull debacle at Turkey 2010 I've disliked Vettel ALOT.

I'm getting a bit tired with Hamilton in the sense that he keeps making contact, but the Hamilton haters keep blowing it out of proportion and don't see it for what it is, racing incident. There's a big difference in a mistake, and a deliberate wreck, or deliberate move to damage someone else, ruin their race, or create a DT for someone else.

People have this Schumacher mentality these days, that it's ok to defend EVERY corner and EVERY straight piece of track by weaving all over the show, and turning on people as-if they are gonna disappear or turning in early on someone to CREATE a crash (as Maldonado did to Hamilton at Monaco).

For me, it may seem like I defend Hamilton, but I'm just highlighting shitty racecraft, some of which is shitty racecraft against Hamilton although Hamilton of late seems to get involved in these incidents, but that comes with experience as you get more experience you will find yourself not getting involved in these kind of incidents. We take for granted that although he already has a WDC under his belt, he's still a reletively inexperienced F1 driver. So lets think of it, as he's making rookie moves NOW, rather than in the beginning of his F1 career.

Also, inregards to Newey, does nobody remember a time when McLaren got beat by Ferrari some 3-5 times? Just because Newey is involved in a team, doesn't mean they will automatically have the best car. Don't write off Ross Brawn, and obviously don't write off McLaren.
Quote from DieKolkrabe :McLaren (according to Autosport a few weeks back) were privately upset at Hamilton's glitzy lifestyle.

Oh, McLaren could give a **** how Hamilton lives his life. As long as he shows up and does his job that's what matters to them.
Dygear, the article in Autosport (about 3 weeks back) stated some, unnamed, McLaren personnel are privately concerned about Hamilton. Yes, McLaren as a whole might not care what he does, but some people within McLaren do.

Also he is representing McLaren, so they do have an interest in what he does. But I don't think his head is in the game any more, he's more focused on what his management tell him to do.

Also, consider the fact that all through his career, McLaren have supported him and he's been in consistently good equipment. Does he know what it is like to be in a bad car?
Quote from DieKolkrabe :Dygear, the article in Autosport (about 3 weeks back) stated some, unnamed, McLaren personnel are privately concerned about Hamilton. Yes, McLaren as a whole might not care what he does, but some people within McLaren do.

Also he is representing McLaren, so they do have an interest in what he does. But I don't think his head is in the game any more, he's more focused on what his management tell him to do.

Also, consider the fact that all through his career, McLaren have supported him and he's been in consistently good equipment. Does he know what it is like to be in a bad car?

MP4-24 was a heap of shite for the first half of the year, and in 2001 McLaren provided him with shite gear for the World Karting Championship campaign. He knows how to deal with shit equipment.

His main problem is he has a gf who's getting brudy and he has put himself too far in the celebrity limelight. I knew as soon as he got with nicole it's be bad bad bad news.
I don't like how the Vettel move is looked on as "okay" because it's the start of the race. Yes the run to the first corner can be chaotic, but it's because there's so much going on that people aren't aware of everyone around them. Not because they're all trying to run each other off the road. He obviously knew he was there, and knew it was Button too (the only driver with something to lose), he kept squeezing till Jenson lifted, and then immediately returned to the line.

The Vettel move sets a precedent that (at the start) any car in front of you can legitimately put you on the grass (or, therefore, in the wall) should you dare to go side by side with them before the first corner. YOU have to brake to avoid the collision. This also implies then, that if you do not brake, you are in the wrong when the collision occurs.

It's a load of rubbish, but I guess we'll be watching for drivers doing this now.
Quote from BlueFlame :Hamilton was to blame, but it wasn't deliberate. Seb on Button was deliberate. I despise dirty driving, and if a driver does it often, I don't like that driver. That's why I don't like Vettel, ever since the Red Bull debacle at Turkey 2010 I've disliked Vettel ALOT.

I'm getting a bit tired with Hamilton in the sense that he keeps making contact, but the Hamilton haters keep blowing it out of proportion and don't see it for what it is, racing incident. There's a big difference in a mistake, and a deliberate wreck, or deliberate move to damage someone else, ruin their race, or create a DT for someone else.

People have this Schumacher mentality these days, that it's ok to defend EVERY corner and EVERY straight piece of track by weaving all over the show, and turning on people as-if they are gonna disappear or turning in early on someone to CREATE a crash (as Maldonado did to Hamilton at Monaco).

Vettel said after the race that he thought Button was behind. How's that translate to deliberate? I don't want to argue about whether it was deliberate move or not so let's assume you are right and it was deliberate. Was it a good move? - Absolutely, Button couldn't pass him and Vettel did everything according to the rules. If Vettel's move was bad don't you think they would've given him some sort of warning or penalty? Also why didn't Alonso then get a penalty for similar situation in Monza. BlueFlame, how come I don't remember you whining about Alonso's move at Vettel on Monza? That move Alonso did was about the same move Vettel did and neither got a penalty because their moves were legal, but since you obviously don't think so I'd like to hear why you are only bashing Vettel here.

It's always easy to criticize drivers for driving you think is unsportsmanlike but in races they race by the rules. Vettel did that since the stewards saw his move clean. You say you despise dirty driving but how do you define dirty? If you count breaking the rules Hamilton, your favorite, is much dirtier than Vettel. If you count deliberate rule breaking Hamilton is still either tied with Vettel or in the lead.

I don't get why you think drivers shouldn't defend their positions. It's not weaving if you only make one move to defend and then return to the driving line getting ready for the corner. You seem to have this strange vision what racing should be and you are acting based on that rather than what's the real world. There is a former F1 driver in the stewards each race so don't you think he has a better view of the rules than you or I do?

Actually, if I remember correctly Vettel's move was investigated because Mclaren thought he changed his driving line more than one time. The case was never about Vettel pushing Button to grass.
.. but you also have to look at all the chaos in the midfield at the start of a race and apply the rule equally to them. That's the difficulty.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG