Quote from tristancliffe :

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/51584.html

Your earlier comment that I semi joked about, is in the same vein as that article.

Quote from CSF :

A good and fair article really, especially John Watson's quotes.

Totally agree.

Edit:
From now on, and to recognise some people will never agree on him, I will only use the name Lewis - with suitable link attached

Quote from DevilDare :

There you go.

Yet people still call him "arrogant" and say he, "never claims his own mistakes" - Just choosing to ignore articles like these.

Bah, anyway, not the first time he had a crap couple of races... Hopefully with Button winning he will pick himself up.

Vettel is off in the distance already though so... Button already needs 3 wins and for Vettel to not DNF / finish in points, which is highly unlikely.

An exception that makes the rule. He had to apologize since Button is in the same team and Ron Dennis would not have liked it if Hamilton had said that it was Button's fault entirely. Now both said to the press it was their fault and everyone in Mclaren is happy. This is media game just like Hamilton's apologizes for Monaco several days late.

This is the first time I've seen him apologize so soon and for a situation that didn't even cause him a penalty. (meaning he didn't do anything severely wrong) I'm quite certain that this article was sponsored and written by Mclaren.

Quote from JPeace :

remember Vettel has never been in a place in the championship where people have been closing on him - and from watching the last lap of the race he is susceptible to pressure.

I think you missed the spanish gp. And monaco. Or abu chabi last year. In canada Vettel was 2s slower and pushing like hell on last laps. It was checkers or wreckers for him and he made a tiny mistake. He was trying with all his might to prevent button from getting within 1s at the drs zone. If button was within 1s on the straight vettel would stand no chance so all he could do was to push 100%.

I see no "susceptible to pressure".

Quote from tristancliffe :

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport/story/51584.html

Heh. Both say it's their own fault but only Hamilton's "guilt" matters.

Quote from Juzaa :

An exception that makes the rule. He had to apologize since Button is in the same team and Ron Dennis would not have liked it if Hamilton had said that it was Button's fault entirely. Now both said to the press it was their fault and everyone in Mclaren is happy. This is media game just like Hamilton's apologizes for Monaco several days late.

This is the first time I've seen him apologize so soon and for a situation that didn't even cause him a penalty. (meaning he didn't do anything severely wrong) I'm quite certain that this article was sponsored and written by Mclaren.

You wouldnt see it even if he apologised a million times.

And if you read it, he apologised and admitted it was his own mistake to Button himself, behind closed doors. When he was speaking directly to the media as soon as he got out of the car, he said he was not sure about it. He even thought he was half way alongside Button... Obviously after seeing the replays he probably realised it wasnt the smartest of moves.

And saying Ron Dennis wouldnt have liked it is quite honestly bullshit, because we all know Lewis is like a son to Ron... He will stand on Lewis side more times than not..

Dont even know why I'm replying to you... 90% of your posts in this section are about Hamilton and how bad he is. We get it...

Quote from DevilDare :

You wouldnt see it even if he apologised a million times.

And if you read it, he apologised and admitted it was his own mistake to Button himself, behind closed doors. When he was speaking directly to the media as soon as he got out of the car, he said he was not sure about it. He even thought he was half way alongside Button... Obviously after seeing the replays he probably realised it wasnt the smartest of moves.

And saying Ron Dennis wouldnt have liked it is quite honestly bullshit, because we all know Lewis is like a son to Ron... He will stand on Lewis side more times than not..

Dont even know why I'm replying to you... 90% of your posts in this section are about Hamilton and how bad he is. We get it...

You seem to forget that Button said it was his mistake a while earlier. If both say that it's their mistake then who's mistake is it? I'm just wondering that why did he apologize now? He's done things that should be apologized and he hasn't until much later. Now that he didn't even need to apologize, did so and told the press immediately how he'd apologized. That just seems odd to me. Maybe he's starting to take responsibility, maybe it's a press trick or maybe he's getting pressure from team or sponsors. We can't know for certain. One confession for a minor mistake doesn't clean his record so I'm astonished you are suddenly implying he is some kind of perfect gentleman and most of the time apologizes if he's done wrong.

Also note that if you drive perfectly you don't need to apologize which Hamilton has had to do too many times this season.

You obviously haven't even bothered to read my posts since I don't remember any post in this particular thread where I'd bash Hamilton's skills. Please, any proof to support your statement? I just said that he should've let go of the situation earlier and he even said the same thing so what are you moaning about?
All ''bad'' I've said about him in Monaco thread is that he doesn't handle failures well and is overly agressive. I've said positive things about him and his talent but since you haven't read my comments you didn't see them.

Quote from JPeace :

A mixture of the two? You know, sometimes its not always one persons' fault, there is such thing as a racing incident or a mixup of communication.

So why didn't they say it was both driver's fault? Why did both say it was their fault? Also it's quite hard for both to make exactly as ''big'' mistake. It's always more someone's fault than the other's. Even if it's judged as a racing incident.

Racing incident's can happen with only one driver making an error so what's your point with that? Mixup of communication is also quite hard at this case since I'm pretty sure they didn't talk to eachother' in the radio when they crashed.

The only way for a mixup to happen is if Mclaren ordered button to let Hamilton go in the main straight and told Hamilton about it but Button didn't catch it because of a radio malfunction. Is that what you were trying to suggest? Didn't think so.

y'all are a pack of raving loonies

your fanboy is showing

The biggest reason why it was Hamiltons fault was because he was involved.

its pretty lol seeing people turn there views around when another driver does the same.

Quote from JPeace :

Watch Schumacher just before the two McLarens collide. That was the normal racing line, there was a lot of room up the inside for Hamilton to use, it simply was not logical trying to drive into that wedge that was rapidly decreasing in size. Anyway, argument over, Hamilton has apologised for the contact with Button. And as for the contact with Webber in the first corner, that is just what happens in the wet, Hamilton went for the gap and Webber gave him room - but Hamilton drove over the curb and slid off it into Webber. I think Hamilton was very unlucky this race, and is driving much too hard thinking that he should and must beat Vettel. He just needs to cool a little and let things fall into place, get into a position to apply pressure to Vettel, remember Vettel has never been in a place in the championship where people have been closing on him - and from watching the last lap of the race he is susceptible to pressure.

I know he basically followed the racing line. This is the only reason why it's not an instant penalty.

What I see when I look at that video is Button tracking a straight line, and then moving further to his left the moment Lewis moves to that side. It's as if Button stayed slightly towards the middle initially because he knew he might be vulnerable.

I'm not saying it proves anything or means anything because we can't know why he did it, but I urge you to watch the video again a few times, (the view watching them come towards the camera shows it best).


The Vettel cracking under pressure thing is interesting. He has until this point looked infallible, but this mistake clearly happened as a result of the pressure from the chasing Button. It doesn't mean he'll crumble, but we've seen previously ice-cool competitors rattled by single events in the past so who knows. A shred of doubt can eat away at someone.

Quote from JPeace :

Stop being so subjective. A Mix up would be that Hamilton did not realise that Button was to take such a wide line and started to use the space available to give him the slingshot into the first corner.

How's that a mix up of communication? It's just judging the situation incorrectly which is the one's fault who judged the situation wrong. Believe me, there's always someone who's fault it is the most. This time I believe it was more Hamilton's fault than Button's but not enough to give any penalties since it was an accident and he did let go of the throttle before the collision trying to avoid it.

And Mustafur I haven't yet seen anyone turn their views because of Hamilton. Can you give an example to back you up or are you just trolling again?

Also I find it strange that everyone says Vettel did the mistake of pressure. It wasn't his only mistake in the track but the only one that you noticed. After driving 2 hours every driver is tired and when you try to push as hard as you can it's obvious that once in a while you make mistakes. If he starts to make mistakes more you might suggest that he can't handle the pressure but so far I don't see any proof of him making mistakes under pressure.

Quote from sinbad :

What I see when I look at that video is Button tracking a straight line, and then moving further to his left the moment Lewis moves to that side. It's as if Button stayed slightly towards the middle initially because he knew he might be vulnerable.

No argument, but two questions are raised in my mind.

1. What is the best direction to accelerate or brake?
   
2. What is the best line into a right handed kink immediately followed by heavy braking?
   

Answer both of those, and it explains Jenson's moves on the track.

Quote from Squelch :

No argument, but two questions are raised in my mind.

1. What is the best direction to accelerate or brake?
   
2. What is the best line into a right handed kink immediately followed by heavy braking?
   

Answer both of those, and it explains Jenson's moves on the track.

I'm not arguing that Button moving to that side of the track is unusual, but watch the video.

MSC in the car before doesn't have a jink in his line to that side of the track, it's just a straight line. Like I said it's easily explainable, but if it isn't a "sub-conscious" block, then it's a definite co-incidence that he moves further at the precise moment that Hamilton moves.

Quote from JPeace :

What exactly did he have to defend from? He was chasing in the championship, he could afford to push as hard as possible because he had nothing to lose. At Monaco all he had to do was defend one part of the track every lap and look after those tyres. In realistic terms, Vettel would have won that race if Alonso had kept Button behind him. In Canada, he didn't need to push that hard! He had already had the gap he needed, and yes, the DRS would have allowed Button to be close in the final chicane, but instead of defending he would have allowed Button to go to the inside, brake on the damp and would have had no chance of making the corner, and would have had to give the place back = win for Vettel. You could see in the closing stages of Canada that he was "mirror driving", spending more time looking in the mirrors than concentrating on apex, brake, exit etc. In the end he dropped a wheel onto the damp and span out of the lead. You are seriously telling me that that had nothing to do with pressure? If Vettel can do that in a race, he has proved he is human, and he can sure as hell do it in the championship. Just as long as someone such as Alonso, Button or Hamilton, or maybe Webber, can get close enough to apply pressure - then the mistake will start to come. In my opinion, Schumacher did the wrong thing defending down to the final chicane, when Webber tried to brake on the wet stuff he cut the chicane and had to give the place back.

Ok wall of text.. Let's start by going over this once again. You say Vettel is "susceptible to pressure". Susceptible (which is a very difficult word to write anyways ) to pressure means making mistakes under pressure right? An example of a driver who is susceptible to pressure is Fisichella who starts driving defensive lines when the car behind is within one minute of him. I do not see that in Vettel and tons of things just strengthen that. He is able to leave his lap on every quali session on the last minute and always gets it done. His pace does change and you can't force him to an error. Some mistakes of course happen and it is not always about the pressure. In monaco for example he had 2 cars filling his mirrors for many laps and he did not get a corner wrong. Alonso was trying with all he could but couldn't even get close enough to try "a hamilton". I could probably list dozens of similar mistakes that you could see as a result of pressure. Like Häkkinen spinning the car in monza 1999 when in sure lead. Maybe someone was putting a lot of pressure on him or maybe it was just a small mistake that just had a huge consequence? I'm not saying for sure pressure had nothing to do with it. Only vettel knows for sure. But he has no history of falling under pressure. To me it looks like a single driving mistake that happen to everyone. As for the webber-hamilton incident (this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Cr9jGcU4A ?? Probably isn't... anyways). I have not made single comment about that and I don't even remember any specifics about it. Maybe show a video about it. If it really was that then sure of course webber had to give the position back. This last sentence is here just to add length to this post and I'm making it as long as I want to but still hoping it isn't too long and does not make this post hard to read but I'd guess it is just fine because I think it is (I'd guess but not sure because I always try to use commas and press enter once in a while (and then... ok this is getting stupid))).

Quote from Squelch :

No argument, but two questions are raised in my mind.

1. What is the best direction to accelerate or brake?
   
2. What is the best line into a right handed kink immediately followed by heavy braking?
   

Answer both of those, and it explains Jenson's moves on the track.

You can't take the best line if there is a car next to you.

Quote from JPeace :

Please stop thinking so literally! A mix up of communication does not mean technologically the two have failed. You have no idea how hard it is to see a car in those mirrors, let alone in the rain and even worse off a silver car in the rain! The reason Button initially went to the center was indeed to defend his position but he then moved to the outside when approaching the corner in order to load the suspension to the left for the first right hander, in order to bear the most traction possible from his McLaren. Hamilton failed to realise this was Buttons' intention after he took the middle line initially. Also, the momentum was with Hamilton at the time and so he had the upper hand in terms of speed, Hamilton was previously quicker on previous laps over Button. For your information, I believe that nobody was at fault and that it was just unfortunate. However, for people who dislike Hamilton it is a clear oppourtunity to jump on that bandwagon.

I am not a native speaker so I cannot but think literally unless I sense sarcasm. I know that Button couldn't have seen Hamilton. So what? We were talking about someone being more guilty than the other right?
Button moved straight to the outside he didn't stay in the middle. Hamilton didn't see that Button was going to drive like everyone does? Hamilton being faster than Button doesn't mean anything unless he got frustrated and that caused the collision which I don't think happened.

Nobody's fault is quite unbelievable since if they both drove perfectly why did they crash then? For the record I don't believe any one should be punished, I believe it was a racing accident but still, there was someone who caused the collision, who was more to blame if you look hard enough. Is every mistake worth a penalty - no and in fact had this happened to someone else no one would be interested. Hamilton having now a total of 4 collisions in 2 races. Can't be just because of other's right? He needs to take his time with overtaking and not push in every time there's a slim chance of succeeding and a great one to crash. This was just an unfortunate accident with Button but you can't deny Hamilton has problems right now and that he needs to rethink his driving. He makes too many mistakes and with driving like what we've seen in last 2 races he'll never win the championship again.

Vettel definitely isn't a driver that is generally susceptible to pressure. He did this this, but one mistake doesn't a rule make. As Hyper says, Fisi is much worse with his stupidly early defending, and I'm sure there are others that are even worse.

What we haven't seen (that I recall at least) is Vettel having to fight through the field after a mistake/poor qualifying/puncture etc. Would he be a Button, Schumi, Webber or Hamilton (on a good day ), or would he tend to throw it off or do something silly (Sutil, Hamilton on a bad day etc)? We don't know that yet, but it's probably the only un-answered question over Vettel, isn't it?

Quote from Hyperactive :

You can't take the best line if there is a car next to you.

Sure you can. Button proved otherwise!

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Sure you can. Button proved otherwise!

No he couldn't. He hit hamilton and didn't get there. Hamilton just plain physically blocked him.

Quote from Hyperactive :

No he couldn't. He hit hamilton and didn't get there. Hamilton just plain physically blocked him.

hehe.. I think you took me too literally there :P

He tried to take the line but didn't get there

(I know it was supposed to be funny. I swear I really do!)

Quote from Hyperactive :

He tried to take the line but didn't get there

(I know it was supposed to be funny. I swear I really do!)

I'll just write it off to the Finnish problem of not having enough vodka and salmiak yet today :P

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I'll just write it off to the Finnish problem of not having enough vodka and salmiak yet today :P

Not having enough vodka and salmiak is not a finnish problem.

Quote from sinbad :

I'm not arguing that Button moving to that side of the track is unusual, but watch the video.

MSC in the car before doesn't have a jink in his line to that side of the track, it's just a straight line. Like I said it's easily explainable, but if it isn't a "sub-conscious" block, then it's a definite co-incidence that he moves further at the precise moment that Hamilton moves.

That is absolutely true.
Another interpretation could be that MSC had just taken the right line out of 13, but Button after compromising his exit defending into T13, then straight lined for best traction, looked to see if Lewis was there, didn't see him, and moved across to take the best line into 14. Co-incidences work like that.

Quote from Hyperactive :

You can't take the best line if there is a car next to you.

Whether or not another car was alongside him is debatable - more like next to his rear wheel, he had left barely a cars width between him and the wall, and did not see or expect that other car to be there.

Quote from tristancliffe :

What we haven't seen (that I recall at least) is Vettel having to fight through the field after a mistake/poor qualifying/puncture etc. Would he be a Button, Schumi, Webber or Hamilton (on a good day ), or would he tend to throw it off or do something silly (Sutil, Hamilton on a bad day etc)? We don't know that yet, but it's probably the only un-answered question over Vettel, isn't it?

His overtaking ability has been called into question when the pressure is on. We haven't had too many opportunities to test that, but what about Spa last year? Button had gotten ahead, and Vettle tried an overtake into the bus stop chicane, lost it under braking and speared into the side of Button ending his race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... igeis&feature=related