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Quote from Intrepid :First F1 laps of Yas Marina

It reminds me of the Brundle quote (originally about the A1 Ring): "The most difficult corner on the track is the pit exit". I don't like it at first glance but I'll wait 'til after the race to see if it actually produces any action.
Quote from BurnOut69 :That would be if FIA rules didnt state that a Grand Prix results can not be reversed once certain conditions are met, which is the case.

Massa cant pretend to bend JUST the rules that favour him. Well he can try, but thats why he is sounding like a crybaby.

EDIT: Now if I was Alonso I would support Massa's petition just to piss off the Hamiltons

Quote from Intrepid : Just when people were respecting Massa more and more.

So it shows more integrity and less "crybaby" ness, (btw just the use of that term shows a childish level of maturity which makes its use rather ironic :shrug, if the rules support race fixing then??

Given that the race was "fixed" and has been accepted as such, what kind of professional, moral, sportmanship integrity do you have by allowing the results to stand? IMO the best, (and only logical), way forward in such cases is to call the race null and void and exclude it from the championship. Any other attempt to re-adjust the results just leads to far to many "what if's" and debate.

What kind of integrity does a rule have that states, irrespective of what wrong doing is discovered the results will stand? To me that's not fair play and justice it's just pure bloody-mindedness.
Quote from gezmoor :So it shows more integrity and less "crybaby" ness, (btw just the use of that term shows a childish level of maturity which makes its use rather ironic :shrug, if the rules support race fixing then??

Given that the race was "fixed" and has been accepted as such, what kind of professional, moral, sportmanship integrity do you have by allowing the results to stand? IMO the best, (and only logical), way forward in such cases is to call the race null and void and exclude it from the championship. Any other attempt to re-adjust the results just leads to far to many "what if's" and debate.

What kind of integrity does a rule have that states, irrespective of what wrong doing is discovered the results will stand? To me that's not fair play and justice it's just pure bloody-mindedness.

You would have to re-run the following Grand Prix because drivers approach each race with a specific strategy relative to their position in the championship. Making it null and void would open a huge can of worms. Why? Because every year has seen dodgy decisions.

A team from Team B who used to work for Team A may still have evidence that Team A did something dodgy in a championship winning year that could affect the whole championship outcome, maybe even promoting Team B to the winner position.

It would be hugely unfair and unjust to Hamilton to take his championship away retrospectively and doing so would probably kill F1 over night. If a championship is never decided, and can be changed 5, 10 years down the road the sport would have very little credibility.
Quote from Intrepid :You would have to re-run the following Grand Prix because drivers approach each race with a specific strategy relative to their position in the championship. Making it null and void would open a huge can of worms. Why? Because every year has seen dodgy decisions.

A team from Team B who used to work for Team A may still have evidence that Team A did something dodgy in a championship winning year that could affect the whole championship outcome, maybe even promoting Team B to the winner position.

It would be hugely unfair and unjust to Hamilton to take his championship away retrospectively and doing so would probably kill F1 over night. If a championship is never decided, and can be changed 5, 10 years down the road the sport would have very little credibility.

Fair points. Clearly there would need to be limitations, but I still can't see how a result who's outcome was affected by something as serious as this particular case can be allowed to stand, fair on Hamilton or not.

However I do take your point about about results changing driver attitude and strategy for remaining races. I guess, there's no easy way to solve such issues.


With regard to the Abu Dhabi circuit. I quite like it, don't really see how any track can be considered bad personally. A track is a track each one has things that fit certain drivers/set-ups etc and doesn't others. As long as a track is not so narrow that it's physically impossible to pass I really don't see what the fuss is about. I'd actually like to see MotoGP go there, think it would make for a great technical circuit for bikes.
Quote from gezmoor :Fair points. Clearly there would need to be limitations, but I still can't see how a result who's outcome was affected by something as serious as this particular case can be allowed to stand, fair on Hamilton or not.

A race is about reacting to situations that arise. Whether they are some dude running on the track (Hockemheim, Silverstone) or another team cheating.

For example, Honda was found to have some dodgy tank with according to the FIA was illegal. Are you saying that because a car that was deemed illegal raced several times affecting the results and strategy of other teams, all those races should be null and voided? You would have to extend this idea of null and voiding races to every occurrence that is outside of the rules that happened in a Grand Prix.


McLaren and Hamilton had to deal with the exact same situation as Massa and Ferrari. Ferrari couldn't handle the pressure, end of.
Quote from JackDaMaster :What in God's name is the point of having a chicane RIGHT BEFORE A HAIRPIN.

It makes the circuit more technical.
It adds different aspects to the set up that need to be accounted for.
It provides a potential overtaking point.

That's just off the top of my head. Remember this circuit isn't for the exclusive use of F1, no circiut is. All circuits are designed with at least a range of race series use, including motorcycles quite often. Circuits are a business, the more races they can have a year, (permits permitting), the more money they make.

There are no right or wrongs about circuit design, (excepting issues of safety, access and public satisfaction that is). Only matters of personal preference. Any bit of road wide enough to allow overtaking can be raced on at the end of the day.
Quote from JackDaMaster :What in God's name is the point of having a chicane RIGHT BEFORE A HAIRPIN.

Even more pointless is having one immediately after *cough* Blackwood *cough*. :doh:
Quote from 5haz :Even more pointless is having one immediately after *cough* Blackwood *cough*. :doh:

Where? I can't see any there.
T1 and T2 at Blackwood.
But I said after. :mischievo
going off topic, nice pic of the lotus 80 in your id 5haz

going back on topic, hopefully with all the different combinations, the F1 cars will miss that chicane and just run down to the hairpin (and did you see that comment on youtube thats its got the longest back straight in the world? feel free to comment on that )
Quote from tinvek :going off topic, nice pic of the lotus 80 in your id 5haz

going back on topic, hopefully with all the different combinations, the F1 cars will miss that chicane and just run down to the hairpin (and did you see that comment on youtube thats its got the longest back straight in the world? feel free to comment on that )

If you look at the layout on formula1.com it does have that crappy little shit-cane before the hairpin.

http://www.formula1.com/races/ ... _823/circuit_diagram.html
Somebody please tell Tilke he doesn't have to draw straight with a ruler - no better, beat it into him, preferably with a bat...
Quote from bbman :Somebody please tell Tilke he doesn't have to draw straight with a ruler - no better, beat it into him, preferably with a bat...

personally im now praying that the track surface has a very low level of grip to open it up a bit. mind you if they had an unprecedented rainstorm the pit exit could be very interested, first time an f1 race has been won by a white water raft
WTF is with the shitty pit exit? Why don't you just make a normal bloody pit exit instead of some underground maze??
It's cool and means you don't have cars joining on the inside of T1... gets them out of the way and puts the outside of T2 or so.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :It's cool and means you don't have cars joining on the inside of T1... gets them out of the way and puts the outside of T2 or so.

But that's the only place where you get anything interesting happening in F1 these days
well now we get to watch 20 cars go underneath the track 2 times. That's more action than F1 will see in the entire race.
Quote from dawesdust_12 :well now we get to watch 20 cars go underneath the track 2 times. That's more action than F1 will see in the entire race.

You didn't see the Japanese GP then?
Quote from J@tko :WTF is with the shitty pit exit? Why don't you just make a normal bloody pit exit instead of some underground maze??

Everyone loves a gimmick.

Well, apart from the people who don't, the people who think it is desperately trying to add something to an abysmal track but actually contributes nothing. Something to keep the masses happy until they actually see how crap the racing is!

F1 Discussion
(468 posts, started )
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