Your REAL name: Simon Cattell
Your LFS licence name: SCA-F1
Requested car number : 69
Your Country : United Kingdom
Your Team : Sonicrealms Racing 2

Last edited by SCA-F1, Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:05.

I agree there should be a pro league (one like IGTC) using GT2 somewhere in LFS, I just don't think MoE is the answer for that, but multiclass offers its own advantages & disadvantages, not many leagues use it either, plus we don't have the farce that ensues from having shitty NGT's on track, cos I don't see MoE using that ever..

Yeah, congrats ineX, great job at the end of the day. Would've been hard to match you in any class, but we enjoyed the fight in GT2.

Well, ofc, it's his opinion, and he's entitled to one, just not really a useful opinion if the only contribution is: "nothing wrong with old restrictions" or "still prefer old restrictions".

Also, I didn't see him testing the new restrictions or contributing at any point. :/

Quote from cargame.nl :

That you must feel pretty lonely if you have such an opinion about nearly 10.000 different racers who scored at least a point. To be in the top 2.000 you need to have more than 100 points. Do you have any idea how many people we are talking about here and how many people have some or a lot of endurance race experience already? That you feel to good to join is your own personal thing.

For your information, the main objective of endurance racing is to keep the car on track, don't get serious damage, doing pit stops right...

People who race on our servers are trained to do all of the above. Hell, even a lot of league racers participate in every day pick up racing.

Being fast in endurance racing is one of the last things to care about. But, any child can see that the FXR is one or two seconds slower on KY3B and if this is a bad track then why choose this track to do the test anyway. (facepalm).

What more do I think? Well I might better be wise to not write that down here.

Only thing I wonder is why this is called Amateur League if you can't handle opinions of amateurs.

On the endurance front, I partly agree. However, to suggest pace is a small factor in endurance racing is ridiculous, simply keeping the car on the track isn't enough, and it's not what endurance racing is about, and that is not the way to learn IMO. Ofc, the league encourages clean, disciplined racing, but this is simply a build-up to the higher leagues on LFS. If anything, the pace should be the key factor a driver has, and doing endurance races like this can teach them the lessons of keeping the car on track, when to push, e.t.c.

Besides, just because KY3B doesn't suit the FXR doesn't mean it is useless information, that way, we could figure at least how much the FXR suffers out on the XRR/FZR proving grounds, however, I would like to see a test race at South City or Fern Bay or something, but that doesn't look like it will happen. FXR however must be a slower car (only very slightly, though) it's very easy to be substantially consistent with it, it's good in windy conditions, good in gravel traps, very easy to drive, and has the 4WD option, which makes it supreme in traction zones, and, as I said earlier, is very easy to go different ways in the setup with it to suit someone's driving style.

As long as it's losing 1-1.5s a lap at KY3B (which is what I predict it will do at it's limits, not to mention the fact that KY3 is a VERY long track) then it should be (with the new restrictions) the quickest car at South City and Fern Bay, as demonstrated by Gebauer and Gehammer last season respectively with the old restrictions. At tracks like this, the XRR simply cannot compete, the turbo lag costs the car substantially, and at Fern Bay at least, it's high centre of gravity means it's very vulnerable to flipping, or two-wheeling at least, plus, XRR reacts badly to damage, something which will be very common at South City, wall taps will not be uncommon.

So, that means that FZR will be it's only challenger at the tight, twisty tracks of South City and Fern Bay, but, due to the fact it's the only car of the three that doesn't have a turbo, it's power is the one that has suffered most with the new restrictions, which will make the car a fundamentally slightly slower package, whereas FXR managed to comfortably beat the FZR which had numerous fast drivers in last season.

Overall, if you think FXR is suffering too much, when the proposed new restrictions actually aim to IMPROVE itself and the XRR over the dominant FZR last season, then you're just asking too much IMO, FXR would destroy with 23%, and due to it's traits (as discussed above) then IT would be the dominant package, and that should not be the case.

Quote from z-ro 8 :

the only point that statement made was that the two CoRe drivers that were 3 and 4, and were "catching the leaders until they decided to race each other" aren't worthy FZR drivers.

Sounds like an insult to me, which is not necessary. Don't you think? You do like to give your opinion quite often....

No, not at all. I fully respect that this is an amateur league, that is the whole point with the credentials of the league. However, what I'm saying is that the balancing should be based on the cars at their limits, rather than left in the hands of drivers who didn't bother to practice, and who are perhaps not totally at ease with the GT2's to drive it on the limit. That way, we're able to understand the full potential of the cars with these restrictions, and isn't that a good thing? Otherwise, FXR would end up having an even WORSE restriction, as in the hands of a "less capable driver" (sorry for my poor choice of vocab) it will surely set better lap times than it would in an XRR or FZR? Drivers preferences tend to matter less the higher up the scale you go, and that is important in determining a neutral, fair and balanced selection.

That way, we can get down to business in the real thing, that truly matters, and have a great season of GTAL! Whether that is with the old or new restrictions, is something that is up to the admins to decide. Whatever the result, we must respect their decision, some people have actually tried to contribute data to balancing the cars fairly, and this is what will decide the end choice of the NDR admins.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Well if you know it all, show me a 2.21 lap then with less fuel, r3r2 and the same track layout. Nobody did a 2.21 or even a 2.22 so it still all is theoretical.

Good luck getting an FXR to do 2:21 at possibly it's worst track on the calendar.. :S

That's the whole point, FXR WILL be around a second per lap slower than the other two at this track, the characteristics of this circuit completely do not suit the FXR, if you tried to match the FXR with the FZR & XRR at a track like this, every team would choose the car for its performance, and the fact that it's by far the easiest to drive, and the 4WD means you can go many different ways in the setup with it, whilst XRR/FZR are fairly limited.

Whilst this is an amateur league, you'll still try to pick the car that suits and/or is best for you and your team, that's normal.

Last edited by SCA-F1, Sun, 3 Oct 2010 11:58.

Well, it's good that rockclan has apologised for what he did, but the levels of his "outrage" were totally unjustified and must go punished, based on what has happened in the past with other forum scenarios, it would be totally unfair and hypocritical for him not to be banned for a certain time, not only for the good of other people for his comment, but for himself, as there is more to life than publicising yourself on LFS Forum, this is meant as a game, to be fun, and competitive, and things just went too far, you can't just switch yourself off from using internet either, it takes a while to get back into the real world again, easier said than done that.

It's also not the first time his actions have come into question, especially regarding being 'drunk' on the forums, but whatever, the thread has indeed filled it's purpose, and egos have been publicised to the whole forum, yippie.

If FZR had a capable driver, it would've destroyed the XRR's laptimes, I'm sure of it. I was consistently running half a second a lap quicker than XRR, not only at start, when FZR had more fuel onboard, but also at the end, when XRR had better tyres. That really surprised me tbh, but, whether the set used for XRR wasn't efficient enough, or the restriction changes have done **** all to slow down FZR is yet to be known; AS4R will prove that I guess.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

FXR would b much better at 23% :/ I couldnt even keep up with FZR's in straight

Just don't even bother, your information is useless to "us".

Anyway, you FXR guys, wait until you get to FE4, SO4R, and BL1, you'll soon realise the FXR strengths IMO.

Quote from SCA-F1 :

Yay, meh won a title!

Quote from Feuerdrache :

Thanks for the final results.

The Owner's championship seems wrong to me though.

Quote from dekojester :

Fixed :| Makes Car 11, Tiger Express Motorsports the Owner's Champion.

:sadbanana

Yay, meh won a title!

Thanks for the great season guys, and well done Sascha on the title, although it was quite easy. Hope to see you all next time.

Quote from PMD9409 :

I didn't want to go the GT1 route and use ballast as people always complain about that. We already use intake restriction in the GT2, so why not try and correct it? It's not like it is some big change, its 1% per car, which is only 7-10hp.

It's not like I want the change. People asked if GT2s could be balanced, and said that FZR had an advantage, and that FXR was too slow eventhough its easier. I found a way to keep the restrictions almost identical but boost the FXR and XRR versus the FZR.

It's funny when you see those people complain about the restrictions, and then when you try and help them out by finding a solution they just sit back and hide. They don't test, or put any input in, they just wait and wait until something happens. Sooner or later it won't go their way and then they will complain again.

From being in the server however, I've seen more positive responses from people that have tested than negative responses. All the negatives seem to be people on here that haven't tested and just "think" that the old restrictions were better.

Qft.

*Even though I wish the GT2's would be quicker but meh, 7~ hp less means nothing.

then you're doing it wrong son

jabba

I thought you were banned?

Great race. Congrats TEM on their first title! Sorry for anyone who I hit, I was actually poo-ing myself at some points.

Sorry Lims that you couldn't win today You really deserved it, but keep your head up, keep improving, and be back stronger for next season.

yes guys, don't harass LLM

just ray on his own will do nicely

Quote from v1rg0 :

This is irrelevant. When Schumacher turned in to Hill or Villeneuve the situation was not judged by some man in a dark room interpreting Schumacher's emotional state, but by the fact that he turned in to a rival to secure the championship. This is what your teammate has done and is not an opinion. It's a fact we can observe from his steering inputs, as shown by this onboard image and this external one.

From what I know of riddim, he is a fair and clean driver. But he even said himself in chat post-race that he hopes this was okay. He knows he did something wrong and there is factual evidence to support it. You don't turn in to someone on what is effectively a straight by accident.

Who anyone believes should be champion does not matter. What matters is that the incident is judged impartially based on what actually happened. We trust the admins to do just that and will respect their decision. I have already offered my congratulations to the winners on the server post-race and I'm happy either way. This topic needed some clarity though as it was all getting a bit silly and emotional.

Why does everyone use Schumacher as an example, and not Senna?

On a more serious note, thank you for some genuine content in your post supported by factual evidence, the only thing I have against is the nature of that evidence, and it's interpretation.

Firstly, there was a theory that Howie weaved on the straights from Dave, looking at the replay, this was not in relation to the incident, and actually slowed Howie down, not Dave, this "weaving" happened through the kink before the final hairpin, Howie basically moved from the inside of the track to the middle after the corner, which is normal after a kink, hugging the inside line would simply slow him down unnecessarily, and could leave Dave a cars length ahead at the braking point of the corner, crucially.

Secondly, the actual incident itself, I've made a screenshot here: http://i678.photobucket.com/al ... incident.jpg?t=1283705297 - Which shows the contact between the two drivers. As you can see, from screenshots 1, 2 and 3, Dave still has room on the outside, as they come up to the minor left kink, which the cars are already pointing at, and would negotiate. On screenshot 4, which shows a bit of lag, and both cars are hurled sideways due to this. Nevertheless, Dave comes out of the incident fine, and carries on. However, Dave misses his OWN braking point in a completely unrelated incident (which occurs preceding to the 200m board in reference to your replay). As they pass the 150m board, Dave is ahead, and ready to brake for the corner, but, misses his point by 30m, and runs wide because of this.

Back to the actual incident itself, and from your in-car screenshots, on the bottom right picture, you can see the frame has advanced 50m, firstly alongside the 200m, and then the 150m board, by which point (on the latter screenshot) Dave is already ahead, and off the grass at this point. OK, you can argue his tyres are dirty, but the fact is, the FZR has significantly higher brake pressures, and much shorter braking distances, he still had time to brake for the corner, but chose not to until passing the 100m board, which is demon-late braking, and that is the cause of the incident.

Maybe Dave was still recovering from the contact, maybe he lost focus, but the incidents are two separate ones, and I believe he had significant time to react during, and then post-incident. Howie possibly gave him a squeeze, but this is normal, and you can see from the point of contact (from my heli screenshot) that Dave still has some minor tarmac to the left of the track. The other argument is that Howie turned in to Dave as he was alongside, again, not true. There is no evidence to suggest Howie had ANY lock to the left BEFORE the lag crash occurred, he simply reacted to the contact, not as it is deceivingly suggested in your screenshot. Btw, sorry for my shit pictures, but you can still see the cars, so it's not important. :P I also lost a bit of patience with GIMP, so gave up after trying to make a shift+u camera.

Edit: Having read it again, I think my view isn't very informative :/ But in a nutshell: Howie left sufficient room before any incident occurred, the lag crash was the element that caused Dave to go on the grass, which didn't even affect him anyway, it was braking ~30m too late that caused that.

Quote from kart-36 :

Looking at those pics your right

I smell hypocrisy is in the air today.

Well, drivers can do a lot of shit under the right amount of pressure, under certain circumstances, it's a very tough call.

It's the last lap, last corner, and it's a battle for the championship against one of the fastest drivers in IGTC, tbh, that is a very high pressure environment if ever there was one, in your first IGTC race of the season, discipline is key. Quite frankly, had Howie done that any different, and it would've possibly breached the rules. But as you came into the hairpin, Howie left just enough space to fit a fat FZR side-by-side on the entry. Maybe a slight bit of lag caused the cars to unrealistically bounce off each other, and cause you to miss your braking points Dave, but, quite frankly, I think Howie judged that perfectly, whereas many drivers would've just blocked any part of the track that became available, dirty Senna/Schumacher-style weaving that we've seen time and time again.

I hope the admins review this incident well, and see it from the prospective of both drivers, would be sad to see this championship decided by an illegal move, or an unfair penalty. But, quite frankly, a big congrats is in order to all teams who took part in this season, it has been very competitive as always, and totally unpredictable, only one team managed to win more than once, and they even missed the first two races! Technically, the top 4 were covered by just 5 points! Amazing, thanks guys for the great season, it has been a pleasure and a great experience for me, really my first full endurance season, yet, I'm so disappointed that meh were in a position to win twice, but it didn't happen, but, to finish first, first, you gotta finish. Still, SR winning the title more than made up for that, as our Turks would say, great stuff guys!

Yes I do actually, because having took part in one of your leagues, and saw your and your silly brothers attitude to other leagues, I know that you'll just cause mayhem if things don't go the right way for you, and people are really looking forward to this coming season.

The correct lap: 9
The cars (/teams) involved: #44 and #31
The lap/sector/time: last sector, final hairpin
And a short description from your point of view: #44 runs off track under SC, then re-passes #31 again under SC conditions.

LLM are driving? **** sake....

Deko, polish the hammer.

Grats Seb on the title!

neither of those kings can drive so they just try to ruin it for others, or they're just jealous cos no-one gives a damn about their shit gt3 league

but yeah, +1 to csf, if you're committed enough..

Last edited by SCA-F1, Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:24.

Nvm, just ignore him, both him and his brother are ****s

Tbh, the pole is such a bastard in these cars, you don't gain too much from it anyway.

I'm just hoping TEM don't sign another non-member to beat us. :|