actually i think the word struggles to have a definitive translation, from D1gp.com:

Quote :

After these top 16 drivers are selected, the Tsuiso (literal translation is "to chase", as in a hot pursuit, and pronounced "tsoo-ee-soh"), or "Best 16", heads-up eliminations start.

http://www.d1gp.com/index.php? ... w&id=14&Itemid=28

Quote from drifter92 :

i meant to say that u lose traction,then u control to not spin out

u dont lose all traction, as i said the only traction u lose is the efficiency lost from pushing the tyres past their grip, you still have most of the traction there, its just that the force is too much to keep within the boundaries of the grip.

a lot of people worry about going over the grip levels and how this inefficiency means the rear end doesnt have enough traction to be fast, but in reality in a lot of racing they are not accelerating the whole way through the corner, so most of the force is on the front tyres, and the rear tyres are well below the boundary of grip as there is not much force being applied to them (throttle), so drift might push the force past the grip level, so these is some tyre efficiency loss, but in racing the rear wheels are often well below the force needed to push the grip boundary, so often both are seeing similar grip coming from the rear end.

Quote from drifter92 :

u loose most of the grip,I never said that u lose all of it

huh? you dont lose most of the grip, you simply push past the limits of the grip there. there is some grip loss from pushing the tyre past its limits as you lose some efficiency, but id say this to you, when you lock up the brakes, does it still stop fairly soon? yes, not as quick as you lose some efficiency of working over the boundaries of the grip, but you dont lose "most" of the grip.

i never said it was a fabricated translation, i said it was a term used by americans, and since i dont watch america drift, i dont hear it. pretty simple i thought.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Read between the lines, i don't see why you don't see the relevance in the point. It being taught throughout the years in racing schools gives creditential and meaning. powerover as a drift technique however, is never mentioned in racing schools as a performance technique and that is im certain the relevance you are searching for.



And?........ Paste or not, i'll say it again, "Those sources, by governing that in their official rules and regulations accepted the fact that "Twin" is a welcomed and commonly used term in the world of drifting as these references are stated across from different parts of the globe."

once again, they have no official specific meaning, power over just means oversteer induced with power, its not govern to one specific technique or purpose, would you not say that sounds pretty similar to ur description of powersliding?

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

And?........ Paste or not, i'll say it again, "Those sources, by governing that in their official rules and regulations accepted the fact that "Twin" is a welcomed and commonly used term in the world of drifting as these references are stated across from different parts of the globe."

if u wanna me padantic about it, it says tsuiso, not twin, twin was just a translation made by the yanks. as i said, i dont watch US drift, hence i dont hear the term. if they want to use it over there great, im wrong, but dont expect me to be overly worried about what the US do, their influence on the sport goes only as far as $$.

Quote from March Hare :

Have you ever fought for a position in a race?
A slower driver can keep a faster driver from passing by using very similar tactics.

But if you want to seperate drifting and racing even more it's fine by me.

yes, but its not a tactic that can be used to the advantage of the slower drifter, the tactic isnt just about stopping an overtake, its about making them drive slower, which in turn can force straightening up etc which reduces their points.

and im not here to make similarities between drifting and racing, although i think its worth clearing a few obvious things up so it doesnt get confusing, drifting is both a technique and sport, grip is a technique, racing is a sport, grip and drift can both be used for racing, im not saying one is faster than the other as they are simply just different techniques which both have advantages and disadvantages and both suit different applications and preferences, but they can both be used to race. drifting as a sport vs racing as a sport, well they are completely different, one is based around form, one is based around function, this makes comparing the 2 very hard in that sense, my argument in this thread is that both require large amounts of sport and should be respected in similar ways.

Quote from March Hare :

erm... What?

Yes judging is a major part of drifting (hence sport not race) but if you leave that out your description of tactics aplys to racing as well.

no, but racing you dont have as much to sacrafice for overtaking or tactics, when you do similar tactics in drifting, they have to be done differently as they have to stick to a criteria to score points.

racing is based on whos in front by the end, drifting is based on how it's done. or put differently, racing is about the final result, drifting is about how they got there.

so quick review, tactics such as slow entries, this isnt affective with racing, racing they would simply overtake under braking, as this isnt allowed in drift its a lot different. causing them to go slower by blocking the line to force an error from them such as straightening up or spinning due to unbalancing the car under drift which will cause them to lose points from judging, once again, in some ways this can relate to race, but the slower speed will simply mean they have to go slow, its not a tactic used to make them lose judging points like in drift. and in reality when ur talking about cars with such different speeds, in racing the faster car is going to eventually pass and the slower car, drift there is a very real chance of keeping them behind you if you follow these tactics, as well as being able to use the lower speed as an advantage to reduce the points of the follower.

flowing with the angle and line to overtake on transitions, not even relevant with race. yes they overtake between corners, but they do not have to contend with varying angle of drift.

Quote from March Hare :

Change the word drift to race and delete the bable about the judges and you have quite an accurate description of race tactics. Only thing that's missing is pit strategy.
I don't see how you can evolve the tactics more.

yeh just delete that part about judges, you know, it's only the part where your whole result is based on...

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

There may not be any real specific definition on both of the terms in a official sense, although powersliding is a taught technique among race schools, not just in high performance driving but also used in defensive driving as well. The one i had attended was a three day course at skip barbers in the intermediate level, but in the 21 hour course one of the techniques taught is powersliding.This was recognised since the difficulty of overcoming understeer on a composite corner consisting of a Carosel into a instantaneous hairpin posed some difficulty getting though at an ideal speed. The challenge here was to gain enough momentum on turn-in during heavy braking, which most drivers suffered understeer after the long line of heavy braking due to the high speed corner exit into the sharp entry. What the instructers had educated us to effectivly exit out of the carosel and enter the corner was to modulate the throttle to induce a small amount of wheel spin and powerslide to force the car to slightly to beyond the ideal grip angle to give the right amount of momentum then instantly counter steer and regain traction and successfully exit the corner following an model line.

yeh, ive covered this quite a few times, but i dont see the relevance to my point. people call it different things, some call it one term, some call it the other. theres no real official, in concrete, definition of the 2 going into the specifics as much as you are.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Remember those references was not from a single country but from across the globe, not just limited to the US. The basis which forms your opinion is influenced from the country you are from and not on a world-wide scale. I'm familar with the japanese using the word battle but i also know that they tend to use the word Tsuiso which literal tranlation means "Twin" or "Twin rush" in which some cases i see it being mentioned as Tsuiso battle on occasion.

they were copy and pastes from an american set of rules and regulations, it was used on sites like D1 NZ as they gained the D1 license after the US.

i dont really see this argument going anywhere to be honest.

Quote from 510N3D :

While reading some of the comments i stumbled across the term twin and parts of the debate about it. I just wanted to say that for me as an outsider (since my knowledge regarding this matter is pretty much limited) this term sort of implies some kind of cooperation or choreographed (show) battle where there is no winner in the end. I guess it may be the actual and correct term but it just confuses me a little.

So my question would be: Does something like this (described above) exists and if so then how do you call it when a "normal" battle is called a twin?

your actually very close to the mark there, in LFS u see a lot of people use the twin as a term for 2 cars drifting side by side for a bit of fun, in competition it is usually what is called a battle as they are battling each other, one is trying to defeat the other.

how ever there are cases of what we call team drift where teams are meant to keep proximity and duplicate what the person in front as doing as closely as possible, in most cases this is a with 3+ cars, but there are some comps where its just 2 cars drifting together, i have some great footage of this on a dvd i have, some really close drifting. this is probably what ud most closely relate to "twin" drift as they are 2 cars together duplicating each other.

Quote from nihil :

Hi

Quite impressed by the way you have taken this thread by the scruff of the neck and would like to ask you something (rather than see you bogged down in linguistic pedanticism... Why these threads always go that way is beyond me...)

What has always interested me most about the 'battles' is the degree of strategy involved (and the limited time in which drivers have to make snap decisions about that strategy). Do you have any links to articles in which drivers describe their strategy, or just general guides to that particular element of the competition?

hey, not sure about articles, i mostly read either forums or talk to the people themselves and get a general idea, the sport is still in most cases no where near as strategic as top level racing, but you can see strategy evolving in the sport. often its just people going out and trying to drift as good as possible, but now u can see a few tactics coming in.

firstly leading, you ideally want to either create some distance or force them to drift at a speed they dont want to. as im sure u understand, people like to drift at different speeds, if you are a faster drifter and have more grip it can be hard trying to hold the oversteer at a lower speed as the lower speed means less force, meaning the tyres will start to gain traction again.

so if you are a slower drifter you really need to keep a good line, make sure they cannot overtake as with the extra speed they are carrying they will be able to overtake fairly easy. holding the line will also mean if they try to overtake they will be forced to take an "off-line", and as im sure u can imagine, its not easy to overtake a car sideways taking up a lot of the track, on an off line which is dirtier and slower, all while having to maintain oversteer and not straighten up. this can often lead to mistakes such as contact, going off track, spinning, straightening up, all which will often lose them the battle usually.

now if they dont try to overtake and they just sit behind you, forcing them to carry lower speeds through the corner can cause them just as many issues, as i said the lower speeds may cause the tyres to gain traction and cause the car to straighten up, also things like having to jam on the foot brake, which unbalances the car and pulls the rear around, once again either causing the car to straighten up or even spin around.

now another tactic that can be used is slower entries, now this isnt favorable from a judging perspective, but when the following car is on the back, they have to follow ur speed, a slow entry will mean that the follower will have to go in the same speed, but due to the lower speed entry, it means you can come through and out of the corner fast (aka slow in, fast out) and sometimes pull some distance on the follower.

quite simply if you have a decently fast car, if you follow a fast line you should either be able to pull away, or make the following car have to sacrafice some angle to keep with you, both ways benefiting you.


now, following, you obviously dont have as much control of the battle from back here as far as strategies, but at the same time your not expected to, which works in ur favour in a way. basically you want to keep as close to the leader as possible, replicate him as much as possible, line, speed, angle etc.

if you can do this closely you usually dont have to worry about much, but unfortunately this isnt anywhere as easy as it sounds, cars are all setup differently, so making 2 cars drift side by side is not easy, especially in battle conditions.

for an almost guaranteed win you want to go for the overtake, now this can be easier in some senses to racing, but harder in others, holding a consistent line is harder when uve gotta do it sideways, so often the lead car will go off line, unfortunately because its 50+ degrees, it takes up more of the track, then fitting your car doing similar angle through less track is where it becomes difficult.

it might be worth noting here, that you cannot overtake on the straights, or when ur car is not under drift, so overtaking under braking after a big straight is not legal. but a few things you can do, taking a different line out of the corner before, come out of the corner before, take a line which sets you up to come into the next corner more aggressively, this may mean you have to sacrifice some speed, and then in turn some angle to make up for it, but as long as you dont straighten up, it will pay off if you overtake correctly. coming in at a sharper line will mean u can come into the corner harder and fast and more aggressively, this is a risk because you really need to hope they have left a bit of a window up the inside for you to go through.

now, you can also overtake on the transition between corners, really the only thing u need to do here is flow with their angle, line, and timing, you want to be able to come past them side by side, if your at different angles your going to have less room and more likely to hit. then once your through and coming into the next corner, really you want to just hit the line, fark the speed, if you dont get the line and u come out to wide on the next corner they might just come back up inside and take it off ya. so hitting that line, even if it means losing a lot of speed, will mean they probably wont be able to overtake you, even tho they are carrying in more speed as they will probably aim for the same line, and now that ur sitting on that line, they arent going past you, in fact itll probably mean they have to slow down to not hit you, which may screw with their angle.

saying that, if it fails, you still usually got in there and got the proximity up which will score u some points, as long as u dont **** it up and get too close and have to straighten up or brake hard etc.

eh, theres a lot of small little tactics that can be used, they are just a few general ones ive thought about.

Last edited by nisskid, Fri 29 Feb 2008, 16:20.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

They do share a common denominator that both techniques are initiated with power to induce wheel spin to slide but how the two orientations of these styles are different.
It is superficial really, for example, powerover, is centered towards style. Sliding throughout a corner at 40 or more degrees of angle, attemping to maintain or increase angle during the slide thoughout the entire track. Remember of course that drifting is a driving style where angle, speed and line come into play. Showmanship essentially.
On the other hand here we have powersliding, a race technique, while still a type of slide, in this case of powersliding the goal here is to counter understeer on acute turn-in by sliding into the entry while maintaining a minimum slip angle and keeping the speed as high as possible then afterwards at or before reaching the apex to return to grip as soon as possible taking the fastest possible speed throughtout the exit. What you mentioned in your previous posts were under assumption that powersliding and powerover are the same,
Powersliding: Race conditions - low angle, high speed, entry only.
Powerover: Drift conditions high angle, low speed, entire corner.

you have to understand that is simply you interpretation of the 2 words, they are such commonly used words that they do not share any real specific definition, well not as specific as you have mentioned.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Point of the conversation earlier was to prove that twin is commonly used, end result my point has been proven.
Those sources, by governing that in their official rules and regulations accepted the fact that "Twin" is a welcomed and commonly used term in the world of drifting as these references are stated across from different parts of the globe.Quite common. Additionally, i do also attend drift events and speak to performing drifters and many do frequently speak of the term as well.

i understand some may use the word twin, maybe over in america they may use it, but i have never spoken to a drift driver or spectator that has called a battle a "twin" here in Australia, and in Japan they call them battles, so it might simply come down to the fact that i dont watch American drift as to why i rarely hear the word twin being used.

Quote from Ikaponthus :

For anyone here unfamiliar with the legendary Bathurst track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juayGkTKYEo -Good track intro - 2004 V8 Supercars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SawhpwFnLFc - Poll Lap 06 V8 SCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jtf83eKGs - 1985 Jag v12 on-board cam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvWFMOF7CWU - 1979 -Aus V8s

Gets my vote.

nice, but this is my favourite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMhj22QLH1Y

:P GTR FTW!! thats when bathurst was at its best, where else do u see commodores, GTR's and AE86's racing each other on one of the best tracks in the world.

EDIT: just watched the 1985 clip, haha havnt seen clips of bathurst looking like that in ages, looks like any other mountain road there, funny to see how hesitant he was on the throttle down conrods, how often do you see someone backing off on the straight without a corner anywhere near? haha very scary straight back then, even now with the added corners its still pretty crazy.

Last edited by nisskid, Thu 28 Feb 2008, 10:43.

Quote from kamkorPL :

I don't care This "opposite"(Opinion that drifting is faster than racing) opinion is worth as much as "NFS is more realistic than LFS" etc. IMO

as ive mentioned, in some cases slight oversteer can be used to overcome understeery conditions in some circumstances, (what most would consider the origins of drift in the Japanese touge) but in general terms it isnt, especially on a circuit etc under usual race conditions. this isnt to say there arent drivers that have been able to acheive faster times using variants of drift on some corners, but talking generally grip makes more sense for circuit racing.

Quote from kamkorPL :

You just kicked yourself in the nuts Use some common sense. AE86 was clearly used as a chase car to film cars and so that Tsuchiya can make commentary.

Drifting is slower than "race driving/gripping". This is obvious.

In fact, Nisskid just showed how awesome drifting is on a closed touge. Great vid.

haha yeh, its just a chase car to get footage and commentary from keiichi.

Quote from March Hare :

I think you kicked drifting in the nuts with that video nisskid.

Two mega dorifto pow4r machines drifting and an AE86 keeping up easily. OK the driver is the Drift King but he doesn't even drift. Just shows how slow that kind of drifting really is.

firstly, keiichi's AE86 is no average corolla, it is his which has been tuned for the touge, its quite simply designed for what its being used for there, not only is the handling great, the engine has got a fair bit of poke too. besides the fact that he has spent decades on the touge he raced AE86's in Japanese circuit racing for quite a few years as well. heres a nice vid of him when he was young: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5kAV_5oAkg

you can see how he used drift and grip on different corners, now remember its not drift like your used to seeing, its small induced oversteer, also notice how it worked with linked corners, the inertia from coming out of one corner meant they can use the weight shift to initiate the oversteer and give great turn into the corner.

secondly, what they are doing is quite simply "show" drift, big angle, big smoke, its not meant for speed. speed drift is a whole new technique, although both share equal precision and control. also the power of these cars is almost irrelevant on the touge, there are rarely any decent straights where you can open up, most of the time your fighting on the borderline of lateral grip so grip and handling is much more important, this is why cars like the AE86 stand a chance, the light weight allows them to shift direction and move around easier, power isnt as necessary.

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... index.php?showtopic=11015

this one is kinda nice too.
I saw it on the forum I daily visit.

yeh a nice close battle there.

still, this kind of stuff impresses me more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1hzHNkxPj8

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Not at all, you see that technique is taught in many racing schools. An entry oriented cornering technique used in acute corners - Right angle, haripins, double apex's and corners with increasing radiuses.

im still struggling to understand what ur point is here, none of this is contridictory to what i was saying.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Not nessacarily, twin drift is a commonly used term in real life territories such as the US, canada, brazil, new zealand, UK as well as australia, although im not aware of most non-english speaking drift communities.

The excerpt is posted previously is from these following sources that are in regard official rules and regulations. Notice how they commonly use the term "Twin".
There are many more i can post but i will leave it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D1_Grand_Prix
http://www.d1gp.co.nz/faq.html
www.drccentral.com/uk/seriesrulesregs.html
www.squidoo.com/d1gp
www.toxicdrift.com/toxic_info.htm
www.driftpackage.com/index/index_0603_en.html
www.drifting.com/d1_grand_prix.php

lol all copy and paste jobs of one.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Bottom line is that it is a high quality demonstration of driver control between two people engaged in a "Twin" as is was my intention to post that following video. But just to disclose this... whether my video or yours, point of the matter is we showed what is meant to others of professional drifting.

yeh, well it is definately a good example of a good battle, but simply not one of the best.

we are really just fighting the same battle with varying opinions on minor details which arent really important. as u said we are both just trying to show good examples of the sport.

Quote from Rdcranno :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... viCsI&feature=related a bunche of drift wierdo's

yeh, this is what we call a western interpretation of the sport.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Again to be clear on what i said powersliding is a known racing entry technique for using the gas to spin the rear tires to corner into acute corners smaller than 180 or 90 degree turns then straightening out and correcting the angle before hitting the apex and speeding out of the corner. Drifting however, powerover uses similar characteristics with regards to using the gas to spin the rear tyres but the difference between them is that throughtout the corner powerover maintains the angle or gains more through the entry, apex and exit whereas powersliding is only used for the entry in racing to corner into acute corners like hairpins for eg.

lol, they are your interpretations of the term, pretty specific for a term which really doesnt share one common specification of it.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

From D1 Site Rules and regulations "rest of the tournament will be standard D1 "Tsuiso" style (Twin Drift.) The Tsuiso style randomly pits one driver against another in a 2-stage run."
Twin Drift, Tsuiso, battle ect are the same and are terms all used in real life. Just for reference

link? Twin might be an america transaltion on some sites of the word Tsuiso, but in most places it is considered a battle or "chase run", twin is commonly used in this game, but it's not commonly used in real life.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Like i said, its one of the top, not the best, just a example, but it demonstrated more corners than a single one of your video.
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it is quite simply not one of the best "twins" ever recorded. Meihan is not just one single corner, its a few, but coming down from a straight into a hairpin door to door is a lot different to doing a few 50 degree corner kind of near eachother.

im not saying the ones i posted up are the best, but they are a good example of how that kind of proximity is seen every day in Japan.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

As reference from Drift Bible the technique you are misunderstood with is the technique named by Keiichi Tsuchiya as "Power Over" using the power of the car to exceed tyre traction, induce wheelspin and initiate the drift.

and? pretty sure that didnt contridict anything i said. powersliding is a western term for power over (oversteer, aka sliding the rear end)

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

These videos are definetly impressive but the reference i meant was centered towards a whole track of twin drifting those videos only demonstrate drifting on one single corner. The one i posted was consistenly throughout a track, then again may not be the best video as i mentioned above but still remains quite high.

no what you showed was not a full track, it was a few judged corners like on Meihan. in D1 there have been a lot more runs just like the one you posted up, its nothing overly special.

oh and as for reference, its not called twinning in real life, its either a battle or group drift.

i wouldnt mind entering or judging, shit internet at the moment is making it a bit of a bitch at the moment.

what would the judging layout be? unless you set out specific judging instructions the judging will be too inconsistant as from what ive seen people online have a very varied and sometimes skewed view of drift judging. i know you have set out some general criterias, but im talking about designated points for each criteria etc, deductions for each straighten, pass etc etc. also rules regarding a pass, whats considered a pass and where is passing allowed etc.

Quote from Woz :

The "Street" community is big and it is the face of your sport to most of the public. Thay are what holds back acceptance of your sport. This is why threads like "What's the fascination with drifting?" come from

the "street community" im talking about probably 99% of people wouldnt even know about.

Quote from Woz :

Sorry but you lost ALL credibility with that second video. Drifting has NO PLACE EVER on a public road. Only an absolute MORON would consider it OK.

If you are into this sort of thing I hope that when you wrap yourself around something (AND YOU WILL) it is NOT a person coming the other way. I would prefer its was something like a tree so that you don't harm/kill anyone else, JUST YOURSELF!

I mean this with REAL convition BTW, sick of these morons on the streets thinking what they are doing is OK, it is NOT.

This is not an attack on drifting on tracks, JUST public roads! When the drift community starts to realise its not ok it will get the credibility is wants, until then more inocent people will CONTINUE to die and the to the public the sport will remain in the gutter. If you can't understand this you ARE part of the problem

haha, do you actually know how many people have died from street drifting? i personally dont have an issue with drifting in remote places where there is no one else around, it doesnt affect the sports reputation and it doesnt kill people, the worst that happens is you damage your car.

unfortunately in some areas there arent any tracks, or hell simply not enough track days, i figure its better for them to vent their steam on a remote road than something in the middle of the city, when it comes down to it, the amount of people who die from drifting in the industrial areas would be so minimal, if even existant, your probably more at risk of driving in peak hour traffic and through an intersection.

now, im not saying its alright, im just trying to divide the 2 sections i think sometimes get mixed up, idiots who try and powerslide out of a corner in a neighbourhood or in the city are just that idiots, they are putting other people at risk as people are all around and its easy to lose it into another car, or a pedestrian etc. people who go out in a remote location to practice do not put peoples lives at risk, in fact no one even knows they are even there, no one lives for usually at least a few k's from these places, and it takes place when no one is working or even out at the time usually.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Drifting and power-sliding are very different even, drifting is where the driver is engaged in a slide but lessons the angle so there is no loss in speed otherwise called a Controlled slide.Power-sliding being the opposite description and whereas called a uncontrolled slide.

not really, powersliding is a part of drifting, it describes the part of using drive (power) to slide the car. some people consider this drift but the general consenus is that this is only one element, using momentum on entry and initiating the drift are one of the most important parts of the drift, just putting on the power coming out of the corner is rarely considered skillful, although what can be done with powersliding can be very skillful.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

One of the best twin drifts ever recorded on video - http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTs2aORTdR0

not even close, a very popular video thats been circulating the internet for ages, its very old, and probably only made its success from being one of the very early decent vids of D1 drifters on the internet, it reality it's nothing special, those kind of battles are recreated every day in Japan. to see the real close drifitng your probably better off looking into more local comps like MSC, the proximity there is insane. ill try and dig up a few vids.

heres some:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gsTBEXlu_Fg (wait til half way)
just have a look at this guys MSC vids: http://youtube.com/user/motorsportscom

Quote from Ikaponthus :

Like I said, "pointless" is maybe not the ideal word. You could argue about that forever. What is the point of anything, right?

It's that drifting is an impractical use of a racing car. In racing, you're trying to go as fast as you can and the car is designed and setup to do that within the racing regulations. In drifting you're purposely forcing the car to behave in an inefficient manner.

Ah **** it. You could sum up my view by: "I just don't get it"!

drift cars are drift cars, they arnt race cars, they do what they are designed for. race cars are designed to go fast around a circuit, they do what they were designed for efficiently. drift cars are designed to drift around the circuit, they do what they were designed for efficiently. its all relative, what makes going around a circuit fast any more purposeful that drifting?

ill go back to this, what is the purpose of racing, hell what is the purpose of sport, why do people do it? because they enjoy it, they get something out of it, if you dont do something unnecessary for enjoyment, why do it? drift is fun to participate in and spectate, unfortunately for you, you have not experienced either, i havnt met anyone who has been to a drift event and hasnt enjoyed it, hell my 70 year old grandma loved it. i genuinely think you would enjoy it if you went to an event, but if your not willing to try something new i cant change that.