This one looks nice:

small_car.wmv

no you didn't ... yes I did ... an old joke, converted into an old Monty Python Sketch. I heard about the sketch but never saw it before I found it on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM&fmt=22

Quote from BAMBO :

cold-air intake

Mostly a gimmick, on a dyno, the air feeding into the engine can get hot, especially if the hood is closed. In a real world driving situation, there's enough flow into the engine compartment that a cold air intake won't help much.

Ram air intakes, such as the ones used on some motorcycles, don't help much at normal speeds, but help a bit at high speeds.

Quote from GTR_Yuni :

engine with insanely high horsepower ... engine with very high torque.

As tristancliffe explained earlier it's the power that counts. The main advantage of a higher torque engine with the same power is that it runs at a lower rate of revolutions, reducing vibration and/or sound.

For a given amount of peak power, a wider power band can be beneficial if gear shifts take a long time, allowing the gearing ratios to be spaced further apart, and also more convenient in terms of reasonable acceleration without having to downshift. In the case of Formula 1 race cars with near instant shifting, the 7 gears can be closely spaced, allowing for peak horsepower with a narrow powerband.

The XP install cd-rom isn't user friendly when trying to create partitions.

Here's a freeware collection of useful tools for setting up and testing a system:

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com

Last I read, iRacing was hovering around 6,000 active players, as players come and go. This is pretty small compared to the number of LFS player or players of any game.

As far as interest in online racing goes, LFS is one of the few games that still gets around 1,000 players online at peak times. The rest of the sim world is now in a cycle where they get a new game, play it for a while, then retire and wait for the next best thing to come along. I think there's a general burnout factor because some players have been playing online for over 10 years and the newness is long gone.

Quote from ajp71 :

The 155mph speed limiters are part of an informal agreement between car manufacturers and government bodies (namely German) to restrict the top speed of cars primarily on the Autobahn on grounds of safety, it has nothing to do with the ability of these cars to be driven at very high speeds.

Maybe so, but a lot of sedans would be unstable somewhere around 175 mph or more.

With this gentlemans agreement, then why the exceptions?

German cars: Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren 722, 209 mph. Audi R8 186 mph. Others: Aston Martin DB9 186 mph. Corvette Z06 198 mph. Corvettte ZR1, 205 mph. Dodge Viper 202 mph, Ford GT 205 mph, Nissan GTR 195 mph, Porsche GT2 204 mph. Then there are the ultra exotics like the Koenigsegg CCX, 240mph, Ferrari, Lamborghini, ...

There was a gentlemans aggreement on the high end motorcycles, to limit them to 186 mph (300 kph).

Quote from mrodgers :

You only quoted half of the statement. I did state that you wouldn't have a clue as to what road it was. So, what you are saying is that driving at an extreme rate of speed with other traffic also driving at high rates of speed is much safer than drivng at extreme rates of speed with absolutely no traffic?

Although a driver may not know the road, knowing that the road is designed to be safe at 300kph (186 mph) is information enough. If going 300 kph while in gaps between traffic, and slowing to 200 kph as the car gets close to traffic, it's safer because the drivers in the other cars are expecting to see cars traveling at 200 kph.

As far as sparse traffic goes, having a fast car well in front of me lets me know I can safely follow at the same speed as long as I maintain the relatively large distance so I can slow as soon as I see the other car slow, assuming that I'm not following a Porche while driving a truck that can't corner well.

Quote from speedway :

"most traffic is running around 200kph"
The Autobahn is actually a great place to show societies two-class-system: There are people that run 200+kph, and there are people who have to pay for fuel themselves. From my observation and personal experience most people drive somewhere between 100 and 160kph.

I was just going by what I heard from a couple of ex co-workers who immigrated to the USA from Germany. Perhaps the co-workers were from an urban area where there was a higher percentage of faster cars?

Quote :

"slower cars need to stay on right" ...if the right lane is free, but even then the faster drivers have to go there too

The co-workers stated it was illegal to pass on the right on the Autobahn.

Quote :

"and getting rear-ended in the left lane will often be considered the slower drivers fault" it will only be slower drivers fault if he pulled out right in front of the faster guy

Yes, but in the USA it's almost always the faster drivers fault, even if the slower driver pulled out right in front of the faster driver because there isn't supposed to be that kind of speed differential on the highways here in the USA.

Quote :

"There a courtesy rule about using turn signals"
definitely not a courtesy rule but rather law

I meant using a turn signal to indicate that a car is slower. If I remember correctly, using the left turn signal while in the left turn lane as a warning that it was a slower car. I've seen this in a few videos of the autobahn and the co-workers stated it was a courtesy and common practice, but not a law.

Quote from ajp71 :

No car should suffer from high speed aerodynamic instability unless they have either had huge design flaws. A standard production car in good condition should remain safe and stable to its designed maximum speed with a significant safety margin.

This is why many high powered sedans are speed limited to 250kph (155 mph), even though they have enough power to go much faster. The Corvette Z06 is speed limited to 330 kph (205 mph), just in case someone soups up the engine. The first year Audi TT is an example of a car with a design flaw that caused the rear end to lift and the car to spin at high speeds in turns, with a few incidents on the autobahn (the next year model added a rear spoiler and adjusted the suspension for understeer).

Quote from squidhead :

car that has flawlessly domintated the JGTC

Not quite dominated, look at the team championship winners, fairly even distribution. Since 2005, only one driver championship and zero team championships:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT

Quote from mrodgers :

Is the autobahn magic or something to where it is impossible to crash and hurt yourself or to crash and hurt someone else?

For one thing, most traffic on the autobahn is running around 200 kph or 124 mph, so less speed differential. The lanes are wider. There are also rules, the "slower" cars need to stay on the right, and getting rear-ended in the left lane will often be considered the slower drivers fault (unless the speed differntial was so high that the slower driver couldn't see the approaching car in time). There a courtesy rule about using turn signals when the slower cars do go into the left lane when passing slower still cars as a warning to any fast approaching cars. Short of a track, the autobahn is probably the safest place to go 300+ kph (186+ mph).

In Germany, you could also pay to run a few laps at the Norsdschleife, which has a couple of very high speed sections.

I live in California, although the speed limit is 70mph, there are a few highways, like the 5, in the isolated areas between San Franciso and Los Angeles where traffic speeds range from 80mph to 90mph, with occasional cars going 100mph.

Due to aerodynamics, many cars start getting "loose" from lift at speeds between 155 mph to 185 mph, depending on the car. A few are safe at 200 mph (if souped up), but this is a very small percentage of cars. Motorcycles don't suffer from this issue and bikes with modifed engines but stock body work have gone 235 mph without issues. Example of souped up RX7 at Bonneville, lifts the rear end, starts spinning then goes airborne (driver was ok).

http://jeffareid.net/real/rx7215.wmv

Then there's the Mercedes blowover from 1999 Lemans (driver was OK):
http://jeffareid.net/real/mercfly.wmv

Drag racing crash, near the end of 1/4 mile, runs now reduced to 1000 feet. Driver was OK and is racing again:
http://jeffareid.net/real/jfan.wmv


200 mph speed run? ... I'll take the bike please.

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 10 Feb 2009, 02:25.

BlackPrince at Paris Ring (top speeds around 155 mph):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mxMQW0rdHM&fmt=18

Suzuki Hayabusa speed run to about 185 mph:
http://jeffareid.net/real/busa185.wmv

Magazine speed run on a Hayabusa to about 185 mph before camera mount breaks loose:
http://jeffareid.net/real/busasr.wmv

Normally aspirated, souped up Hayabusa going GPS 211 mph (speedo shows over 220 mph):
http://jeffareid.net/real/busa211.wmv

2 mile runways may not be long enough. Corvette Z06 on 3 mile runway, runs out of room and has to slow at around 190 mph. 190 to 198 mph (the Z06's top speed) would probably take another mile.

http://jeffareid.net/real/z06190.wmv

Turbocharged Suzuki Hayabusa reaches trap speed of 235 mph in less than a mile on a short test track:
http://jeffareid.net/real/busa235.wmv

On tracks I've gone 125mph in a car (short track), and 140mph on a motorcycle (larger track).

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 10 Feb 2009, 01:53.

The old skylines, 300hp on a heavy sedan are a thing of the past. The new GTR, although still heavy at 3800 lbs, makes about 480 hp putting it in a different class than the old Skylines.

One alternative is hard contact lenses. They'll correct any cornea related astigmatism, and your corrected vision will be better than with soft contact lenses or glasses.

The main issue is comfort, it takes a while to acclimate to wearing hard lenses, and some people never acclimate, so optimitrists are reluctant to prescribe hard lenses because of these issues.

The main con for hard contact lenses is the comfort factor the first few times you try them (or if you get any dust in your eyes).

The pros are many. Better vision. Correction of corneal astigmatism. Low maintainance compared to soft lenses. Very little change of eye irration from contact related infection as can happen with soft lenses.

I always wear my hard contact lenses, set for distance, and my corrected vision is 20/15 (better than average). However being old, I can't see up close well with the contacts in so I now use one set of glasses for the computer and another slightly stronger set for reading.

Giants - Citizen Kabuto

example game play videos:

3 main characters:
http://jeffareid.net/game/giants.wmv

plus some humor:
http://jeffareid.net/game/giantsdp.wmv

Not mentioned yet:

Tomb Raider series
Myst Series

Pre pc games:
Pole Position (Atari 800)
Outrun (Atari ST - like a color Macintosh)
Super Hangon (Atari ST)

PC non-sim:
Stunts (same people that made the first NFS)
Need For Speed 2 through Undercover, got NFS SE last year
Toca Race Driver 2 and 3

PC little known non-sim games:
Corvette Racing
Ford Racing 2, 3, and Street Racing
Mercedes Benz World Racing, World Racing 2

PC sim:
Grand Prix Legends
EA F1 Challenge 99-02
Nascar Racing Season 2003
Live For Speed
rFactor
GTR, GTR2, GTLegends, GTR Evolution

These are pretty good examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mz018yf1-M&fmt=18

http://tanetane92.web.infoseek.co.jp/20050116tas2.html

Maybe these cars are what started the trend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Charger_Daytona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Superbird

Last edited by JeffR, Tue 13 Jan 2009, 10:44.

Quote from majod :

What I've seen in real races, they are often able to fully lock their wheels, mostly in F1. I bet if you do a quick search on youtube, you can find many videos of this situation.

Note that I mentioned at high speed, say 160mph, where the cars experience over 2 g's of downforce. At low speeds, the F1 cars easily lock up the brakes.

Quote from JeffR :

High Stakes

Quote from Takumi_lfs :

just one race on that game again!

Look for "Need For Speed Collection" or "World of Need For Speed" on either ebay or amazon. Both game sets include High Stakes.

Also there are updates so High Stakes and Porsche Unleashed run just fine on XP (and maybe Vista) here, for the small group of players that still play these games, including online via a player made app:

http://iplounge.net/forum/index.php

Quote from JeffR :

The videos will stream live, just like youtube, but with better buffer managing and quality, assuming you use Windows Media Player or the equivalent.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Doesn't automatically stream for me, using firefox.

Is there a way to tie Windows Media player to auto-launch for .WMV files? The alternative would right click on the link to a wmv file, click on copy shortcut, then open Windows Media Player, right click on the top bar, then file, then open url, then paste in the url, and stream / watch the video.

Quote from scipy :

engine braking? It should be avoided at all cost, especially in racing.

Depends on the car and the setup. Lift throttle induced oversteer (coast differential setting) is used in some real race cars, and was heavily used in Grand Prix Legends. Part of the idea of left foot braking by the "aliens" in racing games is that it allows a setup with a bit of excessive lift throttle induced oversteer to be controlled by applying throttle and brake at the same time.

Virtually all racing motorcycles all use "slipper" clutches that limit engine braking, as well as some street bikes. Other than cars that use motorcycle engines, I'm not sure if any racing cars use slipper clutches. However, in the case of Formula 1 race cars, who knows what the ECU and computer controlled clutch management does in those cars these days?

Getting back to the OP, as mentioned, a driver gets a lot of feedback from braking in a real car, the deceleration and the amount of pressue on the pedal, something that can't be duplicated with a game. You could set up a car so max pressure wouldn't lock up the tires, but in a high downforce car, you'd have to allow for some potential lock up at slow speeds for optimal high speed breaking. Then again, in high downforce race cars, like Formula 1, it's not possible to lock up the tires at high speed because of the huge amount of downforce (don't know if it's a limitation of brakes, or for a safety margin).

Last edited by JeffR, Sun 4 Jan 2009, 02:35.

Quote from lerts :

How can potential energy be 0 at infinite distance? shouldnt it be 0 at the center of the earth and a big amount at infinite distance?

It's defined to be 0 at infinite distance, and then increasingly negative as you get closer to the center of the source of gravity. By assigning GPE (gravitational potential energy) to be negative, then the total energy of an object can be considered the sum of a postive kinetic energy and a negative potential energy and this total remains constant (absent of drag or other factors). However, you can arbitrarily choose to assign the zero point for GPE to be any point you want.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Potential energy from the centre of the earth (ignoring all other celestial bodies) is, iirc, Ep=mgh

From the center of the earth to the surface of the earth, assuming the earth was a uniform solid sphere, the formula for GPE for a point at distance h from the center of the earth is

GPE = - G M (3 r^2 − h^2) / (2 r^3)

where r is radius of the earth, and G is the gravitational constant G= (6.674 x 10^(-11) m^3) / (kg s^2)

when h == r then GPE = - G M / r = - G M / h

Once you've reached the surface then the formula for a point switches to:

GPE = -G M / h.

Note that G actually varies a bit depending on the speed of the object invovled compared to the speed of the rest of the objects in the universe (the relativistic effect of high speed increasing the effective mass of an object).

Last edited by JeffR, Sun 4 Jan 2009, 04:14.

I'd look at the youtube videos for each game to get an idea of what the gameplay is like. I don't own any consoles, so I don't know what Midnight Club is like. Looking at the videos, Undercover races are more track like in that the streets have more variety of turns.

NFS Undercover isn't the greatest NFS ever made, but it's reasonable. The storyline isn't great, but it is a racing game as opposed to a movie (many of which are worse than Undercover).

Looking at the videos, the graphics seem similar. Undercover defaults to an excessively bloomy and blurry look on the PC, but this can be turned down or off. With the blur effect turned down, the graphics look very nice.

The fastest cars are a bit too fast in my opinion, too much power and grip. I describe them as the equivalent of Star Wars swoop racers instead of cars. This started with ProStreet and continues with Undercover. However you don't have to run these cars offline, and for online racing, the game auto-switches between levels of cars.

Anyway, the racing modes include point to point events, such as checkpoints or sprints, and circuit tracks. The pursuit events are similar, with the only difference being a goal to take out so many cop cars or cost to state (best done by taking out cop cars so it's the same thing), and simply escaping without any damage to the cop cars requirement. Some "jobs" are takeout events where you crash into other cars to disable them. Other jobs are steal a car, evade the police, and deliver the car. Outruns are similar to the previous games, where you get a lead on an AI car and then maintain the lead for some length of time and you can drive anywhere. Highway battles are similar except the goal is to get a 1000 foot lead in some period of time, you're stuck on a freeway going in one direction, and traffic is heavy; at the higher levels, it's mostly sheer luck to just survive a run between random patterns of cars.

Still overall, it's a descent game, with 100 miles of roads to play with.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Ever heard of youtube? I'm not going to download your movies to my harddrive

You don't have to download them. The videos will stream live, just like youtube, but with better buffer managing and quality, assuming you use Windows Media Player or the equivalent. The videos will end up in your temporary internet files folder, making for a quick save if you choose to do so after viewing one. Just click on the link to view the live stream, don't do a save as.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Everyone would just create the best car and race that, so not much point in it.

Except that there is usually more than one dominant car, depending on the track, and there are multiple tiers (different peformance classes) in many of the NFS games. A classic example, is McLaren F1 GTR versus Mercedes CLK GTR in High Stakes and Hot Pursuit 2. For Carbon, it was the Corvette Z06 versus the Audi Lemans prototype. Depending on the track, one of the dominant cars would be better than the other. For Undercover, it's the Bugatti (high speed), Z06 (overall), and Zonda (tight tracks).

Last edited by JeffR, Sat 3 Jan 2009, 17:16.